Author Topic: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida  (Read 5735 times)

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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2018, 11:45:18 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2018, 12:03:17 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. Itís part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better ďsystemic racismĒ ó whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

Iím curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2018, 12:35:20 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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No need to rely on eyewitness accounts, which are often unreliable, when there is actual video.  Based on the video, the shooter was in a verbal argument with the woman by the car.  The kid was in the store.  There was no physical violence until the victim assaulted the shooter by shoving him to the ground.  The shooting occurred quickly afterwards and was a single shot to the chest.  Even if there was no stand your ground law, I'm not sure there would be a prosecution.

Wow. This is a very surprising take to read.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2018, 12:36:20 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. Itís part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better ďsystemic racismĒ ó whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

Iím curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

Yeah this is a scary idea. Does this extend to a hard foul in basketball? How about when celtics players shove someone?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2018, 12:53:42 AM »

Online GreenEnvy

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. Itís part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better ďsystemic racismĒ ó whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

Iím curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
Uh, seriously??

Iíve once been told the only things worth fighting for are the ones youíre willing to die for. You donít know what situation you are putting yourself into when you put hands on someone. You donít know what training they have or what they have on them (or who they know/come back with).

I donít know why that guy needed to shove the man to the ground, the woman got out of the car looking to get into the face of the man for confronting her about pulling into the spot illegally. I think eyewitness accounts and audio are necessary here.

Obviously the woman shouldnít have ďparkedĒ in that spot, but she was still in the car (for whatever thatís worth). The guy is not the morality police, so if he felt the need to say something, do so civilly. What took place after that, I donít know. The woman clearly exits her vehicle at her discretion and appears to get into the mans face. If he opened her car door or dragged her out, thatís a completely different story. She seemed to escalate the situation which led to her husband coming out and attacking the man. Did he deserve to get shot? I do not believe so. Do we know what he said after shoving him to the ground and standing over him?

At such a severe disadvantage on the ground with a man standing over him, I could understand pulling his firearm. But he would need to articulate very well why he pulled the trigger when the man seeming retreated upon the firearm being drawn. Everything happens so fast in situations like this itís very hard for us to say what SHOULD have been done, just a very unfortunate situation.

I personally think everyone was wrong in this situation, but not one that someone should die because of.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2018, 01:35:27 AM »

Offline liam

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I guess the woman in the car should have been armed and when the man starts yelling at her she should've shot him, then her man would still be alive. There will be a lot more people shot over nothing....

Everyone needs to be armed and ready to shoot in a "stand your ground" state!

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2018, 01:51:50 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I'm generally in favor of 'stand your ground' laws.  I think people have a right to defend themselves, even if the use of deadly force is required.  I'm well known around the blog as a strong guns rights advocate.

But from everything I've seen about this, there was no justification here.  This was simply a man with a way too quick trigger finger who was probably just looking for the first excuse he could find to gun someone down.  I find this appalling, quite honestly.

Stand your ground laws don't mean you get to shoot someone because they shoved you.  They're not supposed to mean that, anyways.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2018, 02:08:48 AM »

Offline liam

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I'm generally in favor of 'stand your ground' laws.  I think people have a right to defend themselves, even if the use of deadly force is required.  I'm well known around the blog as a strong guns rights advocate.

But from everything I've seen about this, there was no justification here.  This was simply a man with a way too quick trigger finger who was probably just looking for the first excuse he could find to gun someone down.  I find this appalling, quite honestly.

Stand your ground laws don't mean you get to shoot someone because they shoved you.  They're not supposed to mean that, anyways.

I couldn't agree more. Protecting yourself and your love ones from danger is one thing but shooting someone over a push is just murder. Good luck Floridians!

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2018, 06:19:27 AM »

Offline Erik

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. Itís part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better ďsystemic racismĒ ó whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

Iím curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

You mean we grow up punching each other's lights out on the playground, then we turn 18 and we get to end it with a gun?

Once that becomes true I'll stop going to Red Sox games.  There'd be a death or two every game...

We did? My parents and training taught me to only touch someone in self defense. Ive been in exactly one fight in my life when a thug like this tried to hit me and it wasnít in school. Either way, yes, once you leave the playground, you face real life. In real life when you assault someone you could die.

What happens at Red Sox games where you are forced to assault someone? Maybe that should be your cue to not go instead of the response to assault?

Do you guys realize that if the victim took 1 kick to the face (seemed like the next move from the video) he could have died? What would you do as an old man on the ground against a young guy who has already assAulted you and getting ready to kick? Once he starts backing down, throw the gun away so he comes and hits you again? Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 06:31:21 AM by Erik »

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2018, 06:34:15 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.

Maybe we should have better gun training protocol then.


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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2018, 06:43:20 AM »

Offline Erik

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Quote
Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.

Maybe we should have better gun training protocol then.

You would be singing a different tune if he didnít have a gun and died from blunt force trauma. Heís lucky that he was armed and he acted 100% correct. You donít screw around when youíre an old man on the ground. Did you want him to take a beating first like Zimmerman?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2018, 06:56:24 AM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. Itís part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better ďsystemic racismĒ ó whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

Iím curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

You mean we grow up punching each other's lights out on the playground, then we turn 18 and we get to end it with a gun?

Once that becomes true I'll stop going to Red Sox games.  There'd be a death or two every game...

We did? My parents and training taught me to only touch someone in self defense. Ive been in exactly one fight in my life when a thug like this tried to hit me and it wasnít in school. Either way, yes, once you leave the playground, you face real life. In real life when you assault someone you could die.

What happens at Red Sox games where you are forced to assault someone? Maybe that should be your cue to not go instead of the response to assault?

Do you guys realize that if the victim took 1 kick to the face (seemed like the next move from the video) he could have died? What would you do as an old man on the ground against a young guy who has already assAulted you and getting ready to kick? Once he starts backing down, throw the gun away so he comes and hits you again? Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.

It could be that having a gun in his pocket emboldens him to engage in confrontations.  If that is a factor, would you say there is a measure of responsibility there?  Mindset: I can be verbally/non-verbally aggressive because if I were to be counter-aggressed upon, I am protected by my gun, the 2nd amendment, and ďstand your groundĒ.  I think the shooters state of mind has bearing ó if I am essentially ďpracticedĒ in my response to counter-aggression, I am an active player in the sequence and should be accountable for that role regardless of the victimís level of counter-aggression.  And yes, if I carry a gun I should be very cautious about unnecessarily initiating confrontations ó thatís what police are for (let the police know of the parking violation).  I am not a fan of returning to the Wild West.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2018, 07:06:04 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote
Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.

Maybe we should have better gun training protocol then.

You would be singing a different tune if he didnít have a gun and died from blunt force trauma. Heís lucky that he was armed and he acted 100% correct. You donít screw around when youíre an old man on the ground. Did you want him to take a beating first like Zimmerman?
Lol, can't believe this is your line of thinking. 100% correct?? Jeesh

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2018, 07:11:19 AM »

Offline Erik

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I agree that the guy is a jerk for confronting people over a parking spot, but if we go around assaulting people because their words hurt your feelings, to me thatís the ďWild West.Ē Lots of wrong happened here,, but the person who escalated it violence is ďmost wrong.Ē

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2018, 07:29:01 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Every gun training protocol teaches to shoot. Put as many shots on target as you can. Once the assault has started itís either you or him.

Maybe we should have better gun training protocol then.
Ow
You would be singing a different tune if he didnít have a gun and died from blunt force trauma. Heís lucky that he was armed and he acted 100% correct. You donít screw around when youíre an old man on the ground. Did you want him to take a beating first like Zimmerman?

Drawing the gun isnít the problem. Shooting the guy when he was in a non-threatening posture was..

And, is 47 ďold manĒ status now?


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