Author Topic: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida  (Read 5371 times)

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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2018, 09:52:12 PM »

Offline Erik

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2018, 09:59:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.
The idea that once you push someone they have the right to kill you is absurd.

It's my understanding that stand your ground laws allow for reasonable force and self defense. Once the attacker started backing away this piece of crap wasn't standing his ground anymore
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Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 10:01:06 PM »

Offline FatKidsDad

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

Unless the man had reasonable fear that the man who was screaming at his wife and kids unprovoked constituted a threat of harm. Then the stand your ground law allowed him to use force - up to and including deadly force - with no duty to retreat.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 10:07:28 PM by FatKidsDad »
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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 10:01:44 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

New record. It only took 10 posts to make this about race and political tribalism
I have bad news for you. This is unfortunately well short of the record haha
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 10:11:47 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?
So you're going to selectively discuss the facts to frame the discussion like you want it.  The shove was what turn this from a verbal confrontation to a physical one.  The shove was strong enough that it knocked a grown man completely to the ground. 

I don't think this incident is a particularly good one to argue against Stand Your Ground laws.  The shooting was quick after the shove and was just a single shot to the chest.  The shooter had a viable self defense argument even without Stand Your Ground.  Stand Your Ground just made the decision not to prosecute easier. 

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 10:18:45 PM »

Online nickagneta

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.
Labeling all liberals in the manner you are is as against the rules in this forum as labeling all conservatives in a poor light regarding their racial stances. Let's stop that right here.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2018, 10:26:22 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

Really?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #22 on: July 23, 2018, 10:39:58 PM »

Offline Mike Pemulis

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people love their ground in florida
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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2018, 10:43:54 PM »

Offline More Banners

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The general rule of thumb used to be that a person walking away (or running, as from police) is no longer an attacking threat to anyone. Particularly if unarmed.

That was surely not a shot fired in self defense.  It was payback for pushing him down. An escalation no doubt, and unnecessary. The stand your ground law surely wasn't intended to sanction unnecessary killing.



Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2018, 10:57:28 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Have you watched the video? He didn’t take steps back until the gun was pulled. He shoved him and walked towards him in a fighting stance. I have no doubt if that guy was not armed he’d be in a lot of trouble.

Moral of the story: don’t put your hands on people.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=XibZ_1532357840
you must be watching a different video.  The guy pushed, the other guy hits the ground, the pusher backs up, gun gets pulled out.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2018, 11:09:30 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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The general rule of thumb used to be that a person walking away (or running, as from police) is no longer an attacking threat to anyone. Particularly if unarmed.

That was surely not a shot fired in self defense.  It was payback for pushing him down. An escalation no doubt, and unnecessary. The stand your ground law surely wasn't intended to sanction unnecessary killing.

that's how I look at it.  this was not self defense or fear for one's life.  This looked strictly like a guy looking for trouble, finding it and taking out his issues about handicapped parking on someone. 
If the guy who pushed was going at the guy on the ground, yeah, I could see fear for his safety.  that wasn't the case.
Also, what makes me see this as non-self defense is that there was no time between pulling out the gun and the shot.  There seems to be no window of opportunity for the shover to get in his car with his family and leave or anything to warn the guy to go away or else he'll shoot.  it's not like the shover had a gun or another weapon that he'd use.  The shooter seems hellbent on shooting the guy that shoved him. 

I hope he's prosecuted for murder.  Killing someone over a parking space is just inexcusable.  shove or no shove.  I would not be surprised that if nothing legally is done to the shooter that an acquaintance of the victim parks in a handicap spot to bait this killer into a confrontation and shoots him claiming the same protection under Stand Your Ground. 

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2018, 11:09:39 PM »

Offline action781

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Have you watched the video? He didn’t take steps back until the gun was pulled. He shoved him and walked towards him in a fighting stance. I have no doubt if that guy was not armed he’d be in a lot of trouble.

Moral of the story: don’t put your hands on people.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=XibZ_1532357840
you must be watching a different video.  The guy pushed, the other guy hits the ground, the pusher backs up, gun gets pulled out.

Eh, not quite.  The guy pushed, the other guy hits the ground, the pusher approaches the man on the ground, the gun gets pulled out, THEN the pusher backs up.

I still think at the moment the pusher backs up, the shooter's life is no longer threatened and the trigger should not be pulled.  The pusher took 4 steps back including a pause between steps 3 and 4 which clearly was enough time for the shooter to come to the realization that his life was not in immediate harm.
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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2018, 11:17:10 PM »

Offline blink

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The shooter should absolutely face some type of charges. If the current stand your ground law means that that guy goes without any punishment at all the law should be changed 100%.

How many of you out there would just stand by while a man yells at your family and threatens them?  Probably pretty close to 0%.  You don't get to put a death sentence on someone because they shoved you. 

I predict this thread will not be long for the world...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 11:42:05 PM by blink »

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2018, 11:25:44 PM »

Offline wiley

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I feel sorry for those posters who are so bogged down by jargon that they can't recognize scum as scum.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2018, 11:28:21 PM »

Offline wiley

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

The moment you put your hands on someone, you have forfeited your right to life. All the man had to do was collect his family and go into his car like a civil member of society. His machismo cost his family greatly.

I’m curious if they gave her a parking ticket for illegally parking in the handicapped spot.

You mean we grow up punching each other's lights out on the playground, then we turn 18 and we get to end it with a gun?

Once that becomes true I'll stop going to Red Sox games.  There'd be a death or two every game...

 

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