Author Topic: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida  (Read 5716 times)

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Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« on: July 23, 2018, 08:23:32 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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so, just caught this on the nightly news (a couple of news link below - didn't have the film footage) -- a man was killed by someone with a concealed weapon over a handicapped parking space.

basic summary:
woman with family parks in a handicapped spot (no record in any reports I could find suggest she had a valid handicapped placard) while her husband and one kid go into the convenience store.  while they're in the store, a man comes up to the car looking for a placard and gets into a shouting match with the woman.  man comes out of store, pushes man away from car right on his butt (a really good shove) and backs up a step or two.  man on ground pulls out gun and shoots the guy who pushed him who ends up dying.  follow up to the story is that the shooter has apparently made a number of complaints about handicapped parking.

Florida sheriff didn't arrest the shooter due to his interpretation of Stand Your Ground.  The shooter stated that he still felt threatened even though the guy who shoved him backed off before he even drew the gun.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/florida-stand-your-ground.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-gunman-not-charged-killing-151300042.html

Thoughts?

Personally, based on what I saw in the video, I have a tough time believing this guy felt threatened enough to justify pulling a gun much less using it.  His repeated pursuit of handicapped parking violators raises the question of him looking for just this type of confrontation to take out his frustration.  I hope prosecutors do go after him.  It's not like he was minding his own business and was attacked.  he deliberately went looking for a confrontation and got one.  The person he killed was possibly (need clarification of the eyewitness accounts) defending his wife and kids from someone attacking them. 

George Zimmerman redux in a way.


Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 08:29:42 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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Doing a Charles Bronson on **** using the handicap spot

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 08:32:26 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I was with you until the George Zimmerman comment.

But yes, if the law is written in a way to make this behavior legal, the law should be changed.


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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 09:00:06 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I was with you until the George Zimmerman comment.

But yes, if the law is written in a way to make this behavior legal, the law should be changed.
not really calling him George Zimmerman but I noticed the similarity of 2 guys carrying guns looking to bring their idea of justice/vigilantism and someone getting killed over what amounts to something stupid.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 09:15:33 PM »

Offline Erik

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Have you watched the video? He didn’t take steps back until the gun was pulled. He shoved him and walked towards him in a fighting stance. I have no doubt if that guy was not armed he’d be in a lot of trouble.

Moral of the story: don’t put your hands on people.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=XibZ_1532357840
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 09:21:49 PM by Erik »

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 09:17:46 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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No need to rely on eyewitness accounts, which are often unreliable, when there is actual video.  Based on the video, the shooter was in a verbal argument with the woman by the car.  The kid was in the store.  There was no physical violence until the victim assaulted the shooter by shoving him to the ground.  The shooting occurred quickly afterwards and was a single shot to the chest.  Even if there was no stand your ground law, I'm not sure there would be a prosecution.   

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 09:21:53 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
Even if there was no stand your ground law, I'm not sure there would be a prosecution.

There should be. If there’s no stand your ground, there’s a duty to retreat, rather than resorting to deadly force.


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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2018, 09:23:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 09:35:26 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Quote
Even if there was no stand your ground law, I'm not sure there would be a prosecution.

There should be. If there’s no stand your ground, there’s a duty to retreat, rather than resorting to deadly force.
Hard to retreat when you are knocked to the ground and sitting on your butt with the attacker right there.  Everyone has a right to defend themselves. 

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 09:40:06 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one? 

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 09:43:17 PM »

Offline FatKidsDad

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There are two ways to look at this.

First, the woman in the car stated in a TV interview that the man approached her and was yelling and verbally abusive. She was scared of him. She had children in the car. Her husband returned, saw what was happening and pushed the man away forcefully. If, in his mind, the screaming, abusive man constituted a threat of imminent bodily harm or death, he was applying the stand your ground law.

Second, if the yelling man felt that the forceful shove he received was unprovoked and constituted a threat of imminent harm or death, HE was applying the stand your ground law.

One feature of the law is that stand your ground is not a defense for the person who initiates the altercation.

There is enough ambiguity in this case that the sheriff should arrest and charge. Let the shooter
stand trial and make the case that he did not initiate the altercation and was covered by the law.
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Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2018, 09:44:38 PM »

Offline Erik

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2018, 09:46:55 PM »

Offline FatKidsDad

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

New record. It only took 10 posts to make this about race and political tribalism
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking." - George S. Patton
   
"Live so that when your children think of fairness and integrity,they think of you." -   H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2018, 09:48:05 PM »

Offline action781

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?

Liberals cannot assign blame to minorities. It’s part of the welcome package section 3: pandering for votes. Instead, when a minority does something wrong, they blame the system or even better “systemic racism” — whatever that means.

OK.  The victim can be blamed for assault by means of a shove, sure.  But such assault and then retreat upon seeing a firearm does not warrant a death sentence.  Is the shove really what is most deserving of discussion here?

Re: Stand Your Ground shooting in Florida
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 09:50:12 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. They're freaking stupid. Why don't we all arm ourselves and just go back in time to the Old West.

"I feel threatened. Time to shoot to kill!" Unreal.
How about commenting on the victim escalating the situation from a verbal conflict to a physical one?
You must have missed my opening sentence. I am just commenting on Stand Your Ground laws. Nothing else.

 

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