Poll

Which

Sign Jabari bird to a long term contract with final roster spot
22 (55%)
Keep bird on a 2-way, while leaving roster spot for a waived veteran
18 (45%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)  (Read 1115 times)

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Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2018, 02:08:21 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Ed Macauley
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Ojeleye is also not a developmental prospect. He’s a role player who we hope will get better, but in the mean time is perfectly capable of giving useful minutes.

There comes a point where there are only so many minutes to attract the veteran player you’d like on the roster.  The Celtics top 10 in the rotation is pretty set without injuries, and a lot of players aren’t cut out for the DNP-CD role that anyone who signs will be in line for, given they’d slot somewhere in the 11th-13th spot in the rotation.  A player like Jabari Bird, who at 24 has some growth left but has the upside of a player in the back of the rotation, is fine for this last spot.  He will be able to come in and provide some measure of useful minutes, and can be kept for four seasons in this back of the rotation role for a low price, which is important as we have to let some other more expensive depth players go in future seasons.

Ojeleye is most certainly a developmental player.  You even said so yourself when you stated "who we hope will get better".  He's not ready to be a contributor on a playoff team.  He was forced to try last year and failed miserably.  I'm fine with him as our 13th man, but I don't think he belongs any higher in the pecking order until he proves otherwise.

As for your last paragraph, yes I absolutely want my 11th and 12th players on the roster to be veterans who can come in at a moments notice and adequately fill the void.  There are plenty of players that fit this description.

As I said earlier, players like Bird are a dime a dozen and can be found any time.  Spending a valuable roster spot on such a player is a waste and foolhardy.

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2018, 02:12:30 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I voted to keep the spot open..... this is not a case of a Bird in hand worth more than two in the bush.

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2018, 02:14:58 PM »

Online nickagneta

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If Bird is getting a 4 year contract it better be non-guaranteed for every year after year one. We are going to need roster space for at least 1 and maybe 3 rookies next year. Gonna need that roster spot next year.

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2018, 02:19:51 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Long term contract could prove to be a valuable rotation piece. He has shown many flashes of providing scoring inside,  and on the perimeter. 

He has great potential as a defender as well. But doesn't give you much off the dribble, and not someone who's really going to make a play to get a shot for someone else. Even as a defender, he's pretty light.

My guess: we sign bird to a 4 year deal like Nader and send him to Maine most if not all of the season  in hopes that he becomes a cheap rotation scorer. He might  be with Williams in Maine as well. and if we see a competent waived veteran, we will cut yabusele

I think Nader is more of a scorer than Jabari. He's got a repertoire of moves and finishing techniques in the lane. So far that hasn't translated at the NBA level; he was poor at converting those shots. Nader shot well from 3 (.354 on 65 attempts, not a huge sample size but promising for his future). He got himself to the line a fair amount, too, which is a good skill for a player on the outside of a rotation. Again, the sample size is not huge but the result comes right out of his game.

With Bird's spring and length, he'll be able to shoot over a lot of guys. But it would be surprising to see him next season as anything more than a complementary player on offense.

Surprisingly difficult choice.  I really like what I saw from Jabari in SL.  However, if this is the year they get the Finals, you will need to pick up another frontcourt (IMO) veteran for the stretch run.

Your point is well taken. I guess one way to go is to simply plug Bird into the role that Nader played last season; the team found a way to both give Nader considerable developmental minutes and also bring Monroe in to play rotation minutes.

But, my guess is that we'll eventually move Morris to get under the tax and be able to sign Bird and a vet. I realize losing Morris leaves another hole, but we have a decent amount of wings (including Bird) and if Morris is forced into a big role (loss of Hayward or Tatum, for instance), we aren't winning the championship anyway.

I'd agree that losing Hayward or Tatum seriously reduces the Celtics' chances at a championship, though you never know (Steph and Draymond bump heads in the conference finals and have to sit out for concussion protocol...).

On the other hand there are other scenarios where Morris gets a bump in minutes (mostly he was competing with bigs and Ojeleye, as well as Tatum, for minutes); and beyond that: if it happens in February, the guy he's replacing might well be coming back in April.

It seems to me wise to stay out of the tax this season, but Morris is a rotation-quality swing. If they think that Ojeleye is ready to take Morris' role, then it makes sense to move him.

I don’t think Bird is an NBA-level rotation player. I wouldn’t give him anything more than a 2-way deal.

I agree with the first point.  At least, he is not now a rotation player, especially not on the Celtics, who have a lot of wing depth. The lack of strength limits his versatility, despite his assets.

His future? I think that he has rotation-player upside. Good feet and laterals, activity, great length, and a shooting touch. Will it happen on the Celtics? I'm betting against it - he has a lot of guys in front of him, and it's a win-now situation in Boston. If I were Jabari I'd look elsewhere for a better opportunity.

i really do not think the 15th player on this team will make or break the celtics chances for a championship.

I agree - at any rate it's unlikely.

Greg Monroe is not rated very high around here, but I think that he provided some valuable minutes, especially after Theis went down. He's better than a 15th man - I'm just using him as an example of player who helps you hold it together until the post-season.

I guess I'm more on the side of using the 15th spot on a young player with potential - as you put it, a lottery ticket, while the 13th and 14th are the "in case of fire, break glass" types.


Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2018, 02:22:32 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Long term contract could prove to be a valuable rotation piece. He has shown many flashes of providing scoring inside,  and on the perimeter. 

He has great potential as a defender as well. But doesn't give you much off the dribble, and not someone who's really going to make a play to get a shot for someone else. Even as a defender, he's pretty light.

My guess: we sign bird to a 4 year deal like Nader and send him to Maine most if not all of the season  in hopes that he becomes a cheap rotation scorer. He might  be with Williams in Maine as well. and if we see a competent waived veteran, we will cut yabusele

I think Nader is more of a scorer than Jabari. He's got a repertoire of moves and finishing techniques in the lane. So far that hasn't translated at the NBA level; he was poor at converting those shots. Nader shot well from 3 (.354 on 65 attempts, not a huge sample size but promising for his future). He got himself to the line a fair amount, too, which is a good skill for a player on the fringes of a rotation. Again, the sample size is not huge but the result comes right out of his game.

With Bird's spring and length, he'll be able to shoot over a lot of guys. But it would be surprising to see him next season as anything more than a complementary player on offense, as opposed to Nader, who got the ball in order to make a move and score. Spotting up, cutting, running the floor.

Surprisingly difficult choice.  I really like what I saw from Jabari in SL.  However, if this is the year they get the Finals, you will need to pick up another frontcourt (IMO) veteran for the stretch run.

Your point is well taken. I guess one way to go is to simply plug Bird into the slot that Nader filled last season; the team found a way to both give Nader considerable developmental minutes and also bring Monroe in to play rotation minutes.

But, my guess is that we'll eventually move Morris to get under the tax and be able to sign Bird and a vet. I realize losing Morris leaves another hole, but we have a decent amount of wings (including Bird) and if Morris is forced into a big role (loss of Hayward or Tatum, for instance), we aren't winning the championship anyway.

I'd agree that losing Hayward or Tatum seriously reduces the Celtics' chances at a championship, though you never know (Steph and Draymond bump heads in the conference finals and have to sit out for concussion protocol...).

On the other hand there are other scenarios where Morris gets a bump in minutes (mostly he was competing with bigs and Ojeleye, as well as Tatum, for minutes); and beyond that: if it happens in February, the guy he's replacing might well be coming back in April.

It seems to me wise to stay out of the tax this season, but Morris is a rotation-quality swing. If they think that Ojeleye is ready to take Morris' role, then it makes more sense to move him.

I don’t think Bird is an NBA-level rotation player. I wouldn’t give him anything more than a 2-way deal.

I agree with the first point.  At least, he is not now a rotation player, especially not on the Celtics, who have a lot of wing depth. The lack of strength limits his versatility, despite his assets.

His future? I think that he has rotation-player upside. Good feet and laterals, activity, great length, and a shooting touch. Will it happen on the Celtics? I'm betting against it - he has a lot of guys in front of him, and it's a win-now situation in Boston. If I were Jabari I'd look elsewhere for a better opportunity.

i really do not think the 15th player on this team will make or break the celtics chances for a championship.

I agree - at any rate it's unlikely.

Greg Monroe is not rated very highly around here, but I think that he provided some valuable minutes, especially after Theis went down. He's better than a 15th man - I'm just using him as an example of player who helps you hold it together until the post-season.

I guess I'm more on the side of using the 15th spot on a young player with potential - as you put it, a lottery ticket, while the 13th and 14th are the "in case of fire, break glass" types - the vets you can count on to play team defense, limit mistakes, and stay inside their lanes.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 02:29:23 PM by Hoopvortex »

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2018, 02:30:53 PM »

Online footey

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Why not re-sign Shane Larkin with the open roster spot? Probably can be gotten cheap.

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2018, 02:33:48 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Some great points by a lot of guys.

-The need and use of a vet is more important short term.
-The amount of developing guys is pretty high.

Yet I always felt the third guy per depth chart was supposed to be a developing player. In the format of
Starter, Bench, Reserve also being
Star, Roleplayer, developing/emergency player (S/R/D). C's current roster with Bird would fit that bill.

S/R/D
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Brown, Smart, Bird
Hayward, Morris, Semi
Tatum, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams


There are also cost to consider if you get a developing player locked up who becomes a roleplayer that helps the teams budget.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Sign bird or keep roster spot open for waived veteran? (Poll)
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2018, 02:41:16 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Ojeleye is also not a developmental prospect. He’s a role player who we hope will get better, but in the mean time is perfectly capable of giving useful minutes.

There comes a point where there are only so many minutes to attract the veteran player you’d like on the roster.  The Celtics top 10 in the rotation is pretty set without injuries, and a lot of players aren’t cut out for the DNP-CD role that anyone who signs will be in line for, given they’d slot somewhere in the 11th-13th spot in the rotation.  A player like Jabari Bird, who at 24 has some growth left but has the upside of a player in the back of the rotation, is fine for this last spot.  He will be able to come in and provide some measure of useful minutes, and can be kept for four seasons in this back of the rotation role for a low price, which is important as we have to let some other more expensive depth players go in future seasons.

Ojeleye is most certainly a developmental player.  You even said so yourself when you stated "who we hope will get better".  He's not ready to be a contributor on a playoff team.  He was forced to try last year and failed miserably.  I'm fine with him as our 13th man, but I don't think he belongs any higher in the pecking order until he proves otherwise.

As for your last paragraph, yes I absolutely want my 11th and 12th players on the roster to be veterans who can come in at a moments notice and adequately fill the void.  There are plenty of players that fit this description.

As I said earlier, players like Bird are a dime a dozen and can be found any time.  Spending a valuable roster spot on such a player is a waste and foolhardy.

Do we not hope Jayson Tatum gets better?  Jaylen Brown?  You can still have room for improvement and not be a developmental player.  Ojeleye gave us important minutes against Giannis in the series vs. the Bucks.  He’s an NBA quality defender right now, and there’s absolutely a role for him on a playoff team. There would be a larger role if he had more offensive abilities, hence his room for improvement, but he’ll get his minutes throughout the season as an actual member of the rotation, and not in garbage time or in th G League.  He’s simply not developmental.

 

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