Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings-Congrats Justice Kavanaugh  (Read 48727 times)

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #855 on: September 26, 2018, 12:44:57 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Quote
m not sure being a hardcore feminist is necessary to receive that impression.

Hardcore feminists and their virtue-signaling allies.  Men and women routinely got wasted in our college.  Why do some believe that only one gender has to maintain personal responsibility?  There's a difference between a drunken hookup culture  -- which women actively participate in -- and a drunken rape culture, in which almost nobody does.

To the other overwhelming majority of the world, we were college kids that studied hard and partied hard, while maintaining appropriate lines. 



Getting drunk and hooking up are not inherently wrong behaviors.  Openly bragging about someone you've hooked up with or degrading those you've hooked up with is.  Did you have permission to tell the world you scored with someone?  Would you appreciate it if someone went around portraying you as some drunken floozy?  Maybe you'd be okay with someone portraying you like that, and telling the world about your private business.  Others may not be.
Wait. Kavanaugh shouldn't be on the Court because he bragged?

Not necessarily.  For me, it would depend on what his views on that currently are.

If as an adult he still acts in such a manner, or feels it's acceptable, than I would have a hard time supporting him being on the court.  If he's grown as a person, and can demonstrate that he now realizes that it was inappropriate behavior, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #856 on: September 26, 2018, 09:16:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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If this is a smear job, this is the most well though out and greatest smear job in the history of smear jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/25/brett-kavanaugh-ford-has-4-people-corroborate-sexual-assault-claims/1429270002/

I mean to plant these seeds years ago and then have them come to fruition now, what a smear job.  The foresight, the planning, etc.  Greatest ever.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #857 on: September 26, 2018, 09:18:12 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Oh, good.  We've allegedly got yearbooks from Ford, too.

http://www.shadolsonshow.com/2018/09/20/bombshell-blasey-fords-hs-yearbooks-brag-of-drunken-promiscuity-54-sex-partners-before-college/

This is ridiculous.  I don't care what 16, 17, and 18 year olds wrote in their year books.  They're walking around with underdeveloped brains.  I care more what they're like when they're 30, or 50 or 70.

What is ridiculous is that 'article'.  If you read it carefully, it actually has almost nothing directly about Christine Blasey Ford.

'Not saying it isn't true.  But it's absolute toilet fodder when it comes to 'reporting'.   It's all shock headlines but no actual reporting.  The '54' is pulled out of anonymous ether.

I actually feel dumber for having looked at that mess.


It's certainly not Olson's best reporting, and it's definitely slanted, but he is a well respected journalist who has been widely recognized by his peers for his journalistic work.  Classifying it as "toilet fodder" is likely just your bias against the author's political leanings rearing it's head.  There's some strong language used, and possibly some leaps being made, but it seems the overall narrative is pretty accurate for the behavior of all individuals that participated in that scene back then (including Ford).

I am quite dismayed at many of the comments in the comment section, however.  There's some rather nasty discussion and viewpoints espoused there.

Regardless, none of this proves she's lying about the accusation.

Calling that mess toilet fodder is not at all due to bias on this.  It objectively is a ridiculous page from any journalism standard.  It has purposely blurry and illegible images and nothing but unattributed 'quotes' and assertions.   There is essentially not one thing on that page that you can really be certain is an actual fact.  Especially regarding Ford herself.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #858 on: September 26, 2018, 09:24:39 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Bloomberg news steps to the side of the accusations and wonders about a separate question:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-26/brett-kavanaugh-interview-choice-of-fox-news-speaks-volumes

Quote
The point was hammered home in his opening statement. “As Justice Kennedy showed us,” Kavanaugh said of his hero and mentor, Anthony Kennedy, “a judge must be independent, not swayed by public pressure. Our independent judiciary is the crown jewel of our constitutional republic. In our independent judiciary, the Supreme Court is the last line of defense for the separation of powers, and the rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution.” The court, he concluded, “must never be viewed as a partisan institution.”
...yet ...
Quote
In choosing Fox, Kavanaugh picked a team, and opted for home-field advantage. A candidate committed to speaking to and serving an entire nation — Republican, Democrat and beyond — would have made his stand somewhere else. A nonpartisan venue such as PBS or C-SPAN, for example, would have been a good place to start.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #859 on: September 26, 2018, 09:25:59 AM »

Offline gift

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If this is a smear job, this is the most well though out and greatest smear job in the history of smear jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/25/brett-kavanaugh-ford-has-4-people-corroborate-sexual-assault-claims/1429270002/

I mean to plant these seeds years ago and then have them come to fruition now, what a smear job.  The foresight, the planning, etc.  Greatest ever.

I'm not saying it didn't happen but you do realize it's not that complex to create these stories when there is a baseline story in place. For instance, she had some sort of experience, told people about it, then later they place it on Kavanaugh. Not saying that's what happened, but it's not a stretch to see that some of the formation of these supporting tales could be influenced by what we know now and what is at stake. It doesn't require the conspiracy that she was planting seeds for the last six years.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #860 on: September 26, 2018, 09:29:54 AM »

Offline gift

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Bloomberg news steps to the side of the accusations and wonders about a separate question:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-26/brett-kavanaugh-interview-choice-of-fox-news-speaks-volumes

Quote
The point was hammered home in his opening statement. “As Justice Kennedy showed us,” Kavanaugh said of his hero and mentor, Anthony Kennedy, “a judge must be independent, not swayed by public pressure. Our independent judiciary is the crown jewel of our constitutional republic. In our independent judiciary, the Supreme Court is the last line of defense for the separation of powers, and the rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution.” The court, he concluded, “must never be viewed as a partisan institution.”
...yet ...
Quote
In choosing Fox, Kavanaugh picked a team, and opted for home-field advantage. A candidate committed to speaking to and serving an entire nation — Republican, Democrat and beyond — would have made his stand somewhere else. A nonpartisan venue such as PBS or C-SPAN, for example, would have been a good place to start.

He chose an easier interview. That doesn't mean he'll be a partisan judge. He'll be an ideological judge, for sure. They all are. I don't see pure partisan stances generally from SCOTUS, though there is a wide overlap between partisan and ideological.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #861 on: September 26, 2018, 10:18:07 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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Bloomberg news steps to the side of the accusations and wonders about a separate question:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-26/brett-kavanaugh-interview-choice-of-fox-news-speaks-volumes

Quote
The point was hammered home in his opening statement. “As Justice Kennedy showed us,” Kavanaugh said of his hero and mentor, Anthony Kennedy, “a judge must be independent, not swayed by public pressure. Our independent judiciary is the crown jewel of our constitutional republic. In our independent judiciary, the Supreme Court is the last line of defense for the separation of powers, and the rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution.” The court, he concluded, “must never be viewed as a partisan institution.”
...yet ...
Quote
In choosing Fox, Kavanaugh picked a team, and opted for home-field advantage. A candidate committed to speaking to and serving an entire nation — Republican, Democrat and beyond — would have made his stand somewhere else. A nonpartisan venue such as PBS or C-SPAN, for example, would have been a good place to start.

He chose an easier interview. That doesn't mean he'll be a partisan judge. He'll be an ideological judge, for sure. They all are. I don't see pure partisan stances generally from SCOTUS, though there is a wide overlap between partisan and ideological.

Hmm.... Gore v Bush

Fox has at this point become a de facto extension of the white White House:
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=628250994

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/28/several-tv-hosts-have-become-de-facto-cabinet-members/

If this was an Obama nomination, going on MSNBC to be interviewed exclusively by Rachel Madow, would you feel the same way?

C-SPAN would seem like the only real safe, non-partisan choice for someone truly trying to stay on the non-partisan lane.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #862 on: September 26, 2018, 10:19:01 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/408446-second-kavanaugh-accuser-willing-to-testify-lawyer-says

Quote
The attorney for the second woman to accuse Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct said Wednesday that the woman, Deborah Ramirez, is willing to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee about the alleged incident.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #863 on: September 26, 2018, 10:32:31 AM »

Online Roy H.

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https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/408446-second-kavanaugh-accuser-willing-to-testify-lawyer-says

Quote
The attorney for the second woman to accuse Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct said Wednesday that the woman, Deborah Ramirez, is willing to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee about the alleged incident.

If she’ll do it Thursday subject to the same conditions as Ford, let’s do it.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #864 on: September 26, 2018, 10:45:21 AM »

Online Roy H.

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If this is a smear job, this is the most well though out and greatest smear job in the history of smear jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/25/brett-kavanaugh-ford-has-4-people-corroborate-sexual-assault-claims/1429270002/

I mean to plant these seeds years ago and then have them come to fruition now, what a smear job.  The foresight, the planning, etc.  Greatest ever.

I think the Koegler corroboration is interesting, because there’s claimed to be at least some written correspondence.  I think that’s pretty important evidence.

It’s one reason I point to the thwrapist’s notes vs. her interview with the post vs. the current story. There appears to be documentation that shows an inconsistent story, yet she just explains it away as “Oh, the transcriber must have gotten it wrong”.

And, frankly, I put little weight on the testimony of close friends or family.

But, what I do care about is contemporaneous written statements.  If those emails exist, and they back up Ford’s account in a way consistent with her current allegation, then I would boost her credibility substantially.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #865 on: September 26, 2018, 10:51:23 AM »

Offline gift

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Bloomberg news steps to the side of the accusations and wonders about a separate question:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-26/brett-kavanaugh-interview-choice-of-fox-news-speaks-volumes

Quote
The point was hammered home in his opening statement. “As Justice Kennedy showed us,” Kavanaugh said of his hero and mentor, Anthony Kennedy, “a judge must be independent, not swayed by public pressure. Our independent judiciary is the crown jewel of our constitutional republic. In our independent judiciary, the Supreme Court is the last line of defense for the separation of powers, and the rights and liberties guaranteed by the Constitution.” The court, he concluded, “must never be viewed as a partisan institution.”
...yet ...
Quote
In choosing Fox, Kavanaugh picked a team, and opted for home-field advantage. A candidate committed to speaking to and serving an entire nation — Republican, Democrat and beyond — would have made his stand somewhere else. A nonpartisan venue such as PBS or C-SPAN, for example, would have been a good place to start.

He chose an easier interview. That doesn't mean he'll be a partisan judge. He'll be an ideological judge, for sure. They all are. I don't see pure partisan stances generally from SCOTUS, though there is a wide overlap between partisan and ideological.

Hmm.... Gore v Bush

Fox has at this point become a de facto extension of the white White House:
https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=628250994

https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/08/28/several-tv-hosts-have-become-de-facto-cabinet-members/

If this was an Obama nomination, going on MSNBC to be interviewed exclusively by Rachel Madow, would you feel the same way?

C-SPAN would seem like the only real safe, non-partisan choice for someone truly trying to stay on the non-partisan lane.

Yeah, I would look at it the same way because it is a rational move.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #866 on: September 26, 2018, 10:55:53 AM »

Offline gift

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If this is a smear job, this is the most well though out and greatest smear job in the history of smear jobs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/09/25/brett-kavanaugh-ford-has-4-people-corroborate-sexual-assault-claims/1429270002/

I mean to plant these seeds years ago and then have them come to fruition now, what a smear job.  The foresight, the planning, etc.  Greatest ever.

I think the Koegler corroboration is interesting, because there’s claimed to be at least some written correspondence.  I think that’s pretty important evidence.

It’s one reason I point to the thwrapist’s notes vs. her interview with the post vs. the current story. There appears to be documentation that shows an inconsistent story, yet she just explains it away as “Oh, the transcriber must have gotten it wrong”.

And, frankly, I put little weight on the testimony of close friends or family.

But, what I do care about is contemporaneous written statements.  If those emails exist, and they back up Ford’s account in a way consistent with her current allegation, then I would boost her credibility substantially.

Absolutely, the therapist notes are crucial because of the detail they may provide. If Kavanaugh is specifically named in the notes, that's a big piece of the credibility. Even if a federal judge is described, there's a lot there to work with. But if those details were added to later recollections of the story, it is overall lacking the credibility necessary, given all of the other lack of specifics and the timing of them being added to the story.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #867 on: September 26, 2018, 11:12:36 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Had to tap out for a few plays after things took a turn for the felonious yesterday.

Kavanaugh's 3rd accuser, Julie Swetnik, has just released her statement through her attorney. She alleges crude behavior at house parties in the early 80s, up to and including serial sexual assault and participation in gang rape of heavily intoxicated women, and claims Kavanaugh and Judge were present (doesn't state involvement) at her own gang rape, which she believes stemmed from being drugged. Claims she told people shortly afterward.

Full statement here: https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044960428730843136

What a mess.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 11:21:14 AM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #868 on: September 26, 2018, 11:26:21 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Had to tap out for a few plays after things took a turn for the felonious yesterday.

Kavanaugh's 3rd accuser, Julie Swetnik, has just released her statement through her attorney. She alleges crude behavior at house parties in the early 80s, up to and including serial sexual assault and participation in gang rape of heavily intoxicated women, and claims Kavanaugh and Judge were present (doesn't state involvement) at her own gang rape, which she believes stemmed from being drugged. Claims she told people shortly afterward.

Full statement here: https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044960428730843136

What a mess.

Huh. Women are repeatedly and consistently gang-raped at these parties, and not only does this “victim” never do anything to report or stop them, but she continues to go to the parties?!

I can see the behavior described by Ramirez and Ford happening. It goes on on some college campus, somewhere, every weekend. Guys grope women against their will and I’m sure silence their objections. Guys expose themselves.

Gang-rape, though, is pretty rare in and of itself.  A woman continuing to go to parties where she knows gang rapes happen all the time? That’s preposterous to me.  This isn’t “I heard there was an allegation of a gang-rape but I didn’t believe it, so I went”. It’s “I 100% knew this horrific violence toward women was happening frequently, and I assumed the risk anyway”.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 11:33:11 AM by Roy H. »


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #869 on: September 26, 2018, 11:37:30 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Had to tap out for a few plays after things took a turn for the felonious yesterday.

Kavanaugh's 3rd accuser, Julie Swetnik, has just released her statement through her attorney. She alleges crude behavior at house parties in the early 80s, up to and including serial sexual assault and participation in gang rape of heavily intoxicated women, and claims Kavanaugh and Judge were present (doesn't state involvement) at her own gang rape, which she believes stemmed from being drugged. Claims she told people shortly afterward.

Full statement here: https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/status/1044960428730843136

What a mess.

Huh. Women are repeatedly and consistently gang-raped at these parties, and not only does this “victim” never do anything to report or stop them, but she continues to go to the parties?!

I can see the behavior described by Ramirez and Ford happening. It goes on on some college campus, somewhere, every weekend. Guys grope women against their will and I’m sure silence their objections. Guys expose themselves.

Gang-rape, though, is pretty rare in and of itself.  A woman continuing to go to parties where she knows gang rapes happen all the time? That’s preposterous to me.  This isn’t “I heard there was an allegation of a gang-rape but I didn’t believe it, so I went”. It’s “I 100% knew this horrific violence toward women was happening frequently, and I assumed the risk anyway”.

I personally know women who've gone to parties where "running trains" on drunk/drugged up girls happened, and they didn't stop socializing with the men involved.  It's still pretty common in some military circles, unfortunately. Nearly every woman I know that has talked about it has been to parties where girls got groped and pressed up on without consent, including themselves. It might be that this kind of behavior was normalized enough at the time that it was rationalized away. I don't know.

The best answer is the same as it's been for the last week and a half - don't assume, investigate.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 11:50:45 AM by fairweatherfan »

 

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