Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings-Congrats Justice Kavanaugh  (Read 55840 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #720 on: September 24, 2018, 01:10:29 PM »

Offline kraidstar

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2580
  • Tommy Points: 656
- Single accuser, no one else comes forward to accuse the same people of similar behavior.

Circling around on this, are there any well-known examples of multiple people making separate false accusations about the same person?

Can't think of any offhand, but a few years ago some people probably would've named Weinstein and Cosby, among others.

I donít think all the Cosby allegations were credible, nor did I think the Roy Moore were all accurate. Enough of them were that it didnít matter, but that doesnít mean everyone was truthful.

Bill Clinton? Most Democrats still consider him innocent. Donald Trump? Heís a proven cheater, but various assault claims have gone nowhere.

My gut tells me Clinton is guilty. I did some research on Juanita Broderick and I found it credible.

He was also allegedly a friend and a visitor to Jeffrey Epstein's notorious island. So was Trump, actually. Hard to believe Clinton didn't at least know the sort of man that Epstein is. IMO the Dems should have jettisoned the Clintons a long time ago. It cost us a Presidential election and it has undermined legitimate criticism of Trump and others.

The following article is NSFW, some ugly stuff

https://nypost.com/2016/10/09/the-sex-slave-scandal-that-exposed-pedophile-billionaire-jeffrey-epstein/

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #721 on: September 24, 2018, 01:20:03 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6654
  • Tommy Points: 81
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #722 on: September 24, 2018, 01:49:46 PM »

Online saltlover

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11294
  • Tommy Points: 2428
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Honestly, you just need to read the original Washington Post article that disclosed her name.  She reached out to the Washington Post and told them this story off the record BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated.  It gets into her motivations for why she wanted to remain silent, and again, she did reach out to the press pre-nomination.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #723 on: September 24, 2018, 01:50:29 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17409
  • Tommy Points: 1135
Quote
I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Both sides dig up dirt on the other and use it.   It is just that it is not usually this flimsy.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #724 on: September 24, 2018, 02:06:24 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19679
  • Tommy Points: 2190
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

A. She did - she was speaking to the Washington Post and her Congresswoman before his nomination.

B. When people keep quiet about an assault for a long time, it's usually by suppressing it - it still comes back to them and affects them, but day-to-day you go on without much direct thought about it. It's in your past.

But when the man who hurt you is suddenly on the cover of every newspaper and every news channel, it's no longer in your past, it's very much in the present and it's engulfing you. Reminders of the trauma become constant and unavoidable, and the prospect of that man gaining enormous amounts of power is both terrifying and enraging. The same feelings of fear, vulnerability and guilt come roaring back, and some decide it's time to say something before it's too late.

It's a major reason why one woman coming forward against non-politician predators tends to lead to others, and not just against the same guy - the first one makes it a major story and other victims find themselves activated by it, opening the floodgates. Plus there's more security in coming forward, journalists looking into old allegations and rumors, etc.

But don't take my word for it - there are literally thousands of personal testimonials from women out there, hundreds of articles, dozens of books. You can start here for easy access to as many as you can stomach.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #725 on: September 24, 2018, 03:39:44 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17409
  • Tommy Points: 1135
Quote
B. When people keep quiet about an assault for a long time, it's usually by suppressing it - it still comes back to them and affects them, but day-to-day you go on without much direct thought about it. It's in your past.

What credentials are you basing this on are you a trained social worker, counselor, MD or psychologist?  I am curious or just a guy looking up stuff on the internet...

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #726 on: September 24, 2018, 03:50:03 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12686
  • Tommy Points: 88
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Honestly, you just need to read the original Washington Post article that disclosed her name.  She reached out to the Washington Post and told them this story off the record BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated.  It gets into her motivations for why she wanted to remain silent, and again, she did reach out to the press pre-nomination.

And before that she told her husband.
And before that told her therapist.
There's many reasons to believe Ford is credible. The second person to come forward, not so much. But Ford, plenty of reasons.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #727 on: September 24, 2018, 03:53:42 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12686
  • Tommy Points: 88
Quote
B. When people keep quiet about an assault for a long time, it's usually by suppressing it - it still comes back to them and affects them, but day-to-day you go on without much direct thought about it. It's in your past.

What credentials are you basing this on are you a trained social worker, counselor, MD or psychologist?  I am curious or just a guy looking up stuff on the internet...

I'm not a psychologist, so I welcome a psychologist correcting me on this, but...
It is pretty common for someone who is a victim of sexual abuse to not say much about it at the time it happens. I don't know exactly why this is but shame plays a role. My guess is this was more the case, say, 20 years ago, than it is now.

Again, I'm not a psychologist, so I can't point you to actual sources. I imagine google, or better yet google scholar, could point you in the right direction if you want more info.

I can, however, tell you from personal experience (not me, but two people close to me) that this is the case.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #728 on: September 24, 2018, 03:58:39 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19679
  • Tommy Points: 2190
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Quote
B. When people keep quiet about an assault for a long time, it's usually by suppressing it - it still comes back to them and affects them, but day-to-day you go on without much direct thought about it. It's in your past.

What credentials are you basing this on are you a trained social worker, counselor, MD or psychologist?  I am curious or just a guy looking up stuff on the internet...

I'm a psychologist, and while I don't specialize in or work with trauma/abuse victims most of my colleagues from my current job and several from my educational past do.

But you don't need a degree to find this stuff; there are tons of scholarly works, public audience-oriented books + articles, and personal testimonials widely, easily available for anyone who cares to look. This is basically an aggregation of what you'll see if you look into the experiences of people who've been there.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #729 on: September 24, 2018, 04:02:37 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6654
  • Tommy Points: 81
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Honestly, you just need to read the original Washington Post article that disclosed her name.  She reached out to the Washington Post and told them this story off the record BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated.  It gets into her motivations for why she wanted to remain silent, and again, she did reach out to the press pre-nomination.

Thanks. I tried accessing that article, but it's behind a paywall.

Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

A. She did - she was speaking to the Washington Post and her Congresswoman before his nomination.

B. When people keep quiet about an assault for a long time, it's usually by suppressing it - it still comes back to them and affects them, but day-to-day you go on without much direct thought about it. It's in your past.

But when the man who hurt you is suddenly on the cover of every newspaper and every news channel, it's no longer in your past, it's very much in the present and it's engulfing you. Reminders of the trauma become constant and unavoidable, and the prospect of that man gaining enormous amounts of power is both terrifying and enraging. The same feelings of fear, vulnerability and guilt come roaring back, and some decide it's time to say something before it's too late.

It's a major reason why one woman coming forward against non-politician predators tends to lead to others, and not just against the same guy - the first one makes it a major story and other victims find themselves activated by it, opening the floodgates. Plus there's more security in coming forward, journalists looking into old allegations and rumors, etc.

But don't take my word for it - there are literally thousands of personal testimonials from women out there, hundreds of articles, dozens of books. You can start here for easy access to as many as you can stomach.

Thank you. I feel like I understand the psychology of it, at least for the most part. I hate to assume that any woman is making up stuff, but as I said before, sometimes the timing of accusations triggers skepticism in me (and false accusations have sometimes been made).

Am I correct in assuming, then, that Ford did not come forward as the result of some sort of tipoff about Kavanaugh's forthcoming nomination? In other words, the timing really was coincidental?
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #730 on: September 24, 2018, 04:04:33 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6654
  • Tommy Points: 81
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Honestly, you just need to read the original Washington Post article that disclosed her name.  She reached out to the Washington Post and told them this story off the record BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated.  It gets into her motivations for why she wanted to remain silent, and again, she did reach out to the press pre-nomination.

And before that she told her husband.
And before that told her therapist.
There's many reasons to believe Ford is credible. The second person to come forward, not so much. But Ford, plenty of reasons.

And in those earlier instances, she identified the alleged perpetrator by name as Brett Kavanaugh?
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

ó C.S. Lewis

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #731 on: September 24, 2018, 04:18:34 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12686
  • Tommy Points: 88
Perhaps someone can help me: I've yet to see an explanation from Ford (or her representatives) as to why she didn't come forward with this before Kavanaugh was nominated for the SC. It seems (and maybe I'm wrong) that these kinds of accusations often don't happen until someone is nominated for a very high position, and I'm wondering why that is, because it makes me a little skeptical (and maybe I'm wrong for thinking that way, but there it is).

Honestly, you just need to read the original Washington Post article that disclosed her name.  She reached out to the Washington Post and told them this story off the record BEFORE Kavanaugh was nominated.  It gets into her motivations for why she wanted to remain silent, and again, she did reach out to the press pre-nomination.

And before that she told her husband.
And before that told her therapist.
There's many reasons to believe Ford is credible. The second person to come forward, not so much. But Ford, plenty of reasons.

And in those earlier instances, she identified the alleged perpetrator by name as Brett Kavanaugh?

Good question. I don't remember, but I believe "yes" to her husband and therapist.
According to I belive the WashPost she considered leaving the country at one point bc of fear of Kavanaugh when it was announced he was on the short list.

I might be wrong on some of this, and I certainly don't know Dr. Ford so am not vouching for her. But her story certainly seems believable and there's enough "there" that I'm in favor of investigating further before making a lifetime appointment to the most important judicial position in the country.

The 2nd accuser, I'm not as convinced by. But, to the New Yorker's credit, they laid out all the evidence they had, some supportive and some not supportive, of the story. If someone wants to call the New Yorker story fake news, then that means the "not supportive" part of the story is also fake news.

Avenatti says he has evidence of a 3rd person, and even tweeted some suggestive things about how this 3rd person may know something about what is on Kavanaugh's supposed calendar. This may or may not be true, of course, and Avenatti has all sorts of angles he's playing. The thing he's got really solidly in his corner, of course, is that the President denied for a long time any relationship to Stormy Daniels, Avenatti basically staked his career to her, and of course we all now know she's right, and the President's a liar.

Not trying to take the thread off topic, just trying to lay out the facts or "potential facts" in order of believability, as I see them.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #732 on: September 24, 2018, 04:20:14 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3911
  • Tommy Points: 651
Am I correct in assuming, then, that Ford did not come forward as the result of some sort of tipoff about Kavanaugh's forthcoming nomination? In other words, the timing really was coincidental?

Her initial communication (to the FBI and Representative Eshoo) was months ago but wanted anonymity.  What forced her to 'come out' publicly were leaks about her communication that were starting to tie her to it.   

The latter timing is probably not 'coincidental'.  I suspect the leaks that forced her hand were probably due to more aggressive members in some Demo's staff who wanted this out there, despite what Ford wanted.  But that's speculation on my part.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #733 on: September 24, 2018, 04:56:58 PM »

Offline Cman

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12686
  • Tommy Points: 88
Am I correct in assuming, then, that Ford did not come forward as the result of some sort of tipoff about Kavanaugh's forthcoming nomination? In other words, the timing really was coincidental?

Her initial communication (to the FBI and Representative Eshoo) was months ago but wanted anonymity.  What forced her to 'come out' publicly were leaks about her communication that were starting to tie her to it.   

The latter timing is probably not 'coincidental'.  I suspect the leaks that forced her hand were probably due to more aggressive members in some Demo's staff who wanted this out there, despite what Ford wanted.  But that's speculation on my part.

Yeah, I think you're right on that about the Dems role. Could have done more earlier, but strategically held back. Which is a huge mistake IMHO.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #734 on: September 24, 2018, 05:06:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 38461
  • Tommy Points: -27402
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
Quote
Good question. I don't remember, but I believe "yes" to her husband and therapist.

No, she didn't name names to her therapist.  She indicated there were four attackers, all of whom were members of Washington society.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required