Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings-Congrats Justice Kavanaugh  (Read 55937 times)

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #690 on: September 24, 2018, 12:48:03 AM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote from: NY Times
The Times had interviewed several dozen people over the past week in an attempt to corroborate her story, and could find no one with firsthand knowledge. Ms. Ramirez herself contacted former Yale classmates asking if they recalled the incident and told some of them that she could not be certain Mr. Kavanaugh was the one who exposed himself.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #691 on: September 24, 2018, 12:53:16 AM »

Online fairweatherfan

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In addition I find the idea that this is some sort of demoratic cover up absolutely insane. I mean listen to yourself. Democrats found some woman with a sort of link to Kavanaugh who was sexually assaulted and convinced her to say it was him? I mean there is literally zero evidence of this, and honestly if thats the plan I would hope they would pick a woman/situation in which they could prove Kavanaugh was there and pay up for some of the woman's friends to confirm her story. Because if this is a set up democratic operatives are doing a terrible job. Not to brag, but I feel like I could have done a better job setting Kavanaugh up.

Or accuse him of actual rape, or plant media stories that don't repeatedly, explicitly state all the issues with memory and corroboration.

One important thing to draw from discussions on this topic - it become very clear very fast who actually is opposed to making serious allegations without direct evidence and who's just kinda mouthing it when convenient.


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Now all that being said I dont think with the current level of evidence against Kavanugh is enough to condemn him. Ford could simply be wrong about who or what happened 35 years ago, and in this country we still need evidence to prove guilt. Barring some additional evidence I think he gets confirmed, and I'm honestly not sure I would even hold it against the senators that vote for him. On the other-other hand I also don't blame woman who think that line of reasoning is terrible. Its a complicated situation.

Agree, except it's not a criminal proceeding, it's vetting someone for one of the most important jobs in the country that has a major qualification of having unimpeachable personal integrity. There's a much higher bar involved and the focus is on Kavanaugh clearing that bar, and with good reason.

But yeah, even with that bar Kavanaugh definitely shouldn't be treated as guilty with the amount of evidence currently available, which is very limited and has little corroboration. There should be a full investigation of the allegations and a report, by the FBI or whatever independent authority best fits the situation. Leave the politicians out of it for a minute and get the best info possible.

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And as a side note, I do consider additional accusations as additonal avidence because I don't live in some delusional world where more people coming forward is somehow just further evidence of a democrat led conspiracy. Because, it might just mean mean that Kavanaugh is actually a bad person. And that possibility has to be allowed for.

Yup, two separate women have now blown up their lives to tell the country that they believe Kavanaugh's an abusive person. I have it on good authority that they're going to, like, get on Carpool Karaoke? I'm a little unclear on the details but there's apparently tons of money in it somehow, but regardless, this is why the public needs to take this very seriously and demand the best information possible to make the best judgment possible.

Great post btw, TP.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #692 on: September 24, 2018, 03:49:18 AM »

Offline Cman

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #693 on: September 24, 2018, 05:22:37 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The people who have a hard time believing this are the ones who don't want to believe.   That is true of the people who support Kavanaugh, they don't believe he would do it.   And the other side can't fathom that people are so afraid of a Roe vs. Wade overturn they would do anything to stop it.  But that is really where we are as country, right now.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #694 on: September 24, 2018, 06:25:40 AM »

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Avenatti (Stormy Daniels lawyer) says he has evidence from additional women.
This is going to dominate Mondayís headlines.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #695 on: September 24, 2018, 06:25:47 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

Scalia to Gorsuch was neutral.

This one shifts the court rightward.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #696 on: September 24, 2018, 06:50:48 AM »

Offline Cman

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

Scalia to Gorsuch was neutral.

This one shifts the court rightward.

True. Also, there wasnít an election looming.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #697 on: September 24, 2018, 06:54:55 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

Scalia to Gorsuch was neutral.

This one shifts the court rightward.
the most logical conclusion is almost always the correct one and here it is pretty obviously that Kavanaugh was a drunken mess who did some stupid things as that drunken mess while Gorsuch was not and did not. 

Either that or women just lie and Weinstein is innocent. So is Moonves, Ailes, O'Reilly, Cosby, etc.

Kavanaugh was a drunken mess as a kid.  He likely has no recollection of things he did because he was a drunken mess. People do things all the time when drunk that they wouldn't do when sober, especially when they are teenagers

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #698 on: September 24, 2018, 07:08:50 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

Scalia to Gorsuch was neutral.

This one shifts the court rightward.
the most logical conclusion is almost always the correct one and here it is pretty obviously that Kavanaugh was a drunken mess who did some stupid things as that drunken mess while Gorsuch was not and did not. 

Either that or women just lie and Weinstein is innocent. So is Moonves, Ailes, O'Reilly, Cosby, etc.

Kavanaugh was a drunken mess as a kid.  He likely has no recollection of things he did because he was a drunken mess. People do things all the time when drunk that they wouldn't do when sober, especially when they are teenagers

In this case, the most logical conclusion is a smear, since something like this was widely predicted.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #699 on: September 24, 2018, 07:25:05 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Avenatti (Stormy Daniels lawyer) says he has evidence from additional women.
This is going to dominate Mondayís headlines.

I don't find him even remotely credible.   This makes me think he is an attack dog more than anything.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #700 on: September 24, 2018, 07:50:52 AM »

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I think it's pretty clear the Dems felt entitled to Garland so they feel entitled to do whatever they want now. 

Withhold allegations. Make them up. Grandstand.  They've really embarrassed themselves more than usual this time
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 08:00:19 AM by eja117 »

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #701 on: September 24, 2018, 08:10:07 AM »

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A thought experiment: if Kavanaugh agreed to recuse himself from, say, all fetal / reproductive rights cases, along with future litigation related to Trump, what would the vote be in the Senate? 80-20?

The ďI canít remember anything, but Kavanaugh is totally a sexual predatorĒ folks would be discarded as fast as a progressive feminist can say ďfree birth control for allĒ.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #702 on: September 24, 2018, 08:15:18 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I have a hard time believing that the Democratic party found 2-3 women who happened to know Kavanaugh and got them to lie about sexual misconduct by Kavanaugh during the same time period when it looks like he may have used a lot of alcohol.

I don't find it that hard to believe.

Why didnít the Dems use this playbook for Gorsuch?

Scalia to Gorsuch was neutral.

This one shifts the court rightward.
the most logical conclusion is almost always the correct one and here it is pretty obviously that Kavanaugh was a drunken mess who did some stupid things as that drunken mess while Gorsuch was not and did not. 

Either that or women just lie and Weinstein is innocent. So is Moonves, Ailes, O'Reilly, Cosby, etc.

Kavanaugh was a drunken mess as a kid.  He likely has no recollection of things he did because he was a drunken mess. People do things all the time when drunk that they wouldn't do when sober, especially when they are teenagers

In this case, the most logical conclusion is a smear, since something like this was widely predicted.
That is just nonsense.  Right wing conspiracy nonsense.  The most logical conclusion is that Kavanaugh was a drunken mess as a teenager and did some inappropriate and/or regrettable out-of-character things when he was drunk (which quite frankly probably applies to most of society at least on some level).  As the #metoo movement has shown, lots of people don't report inappropriate conduct and it often just takes 1 person to start the train rolling for others to come out of the woodwork. 

Mark Judge's book excerpts are pretty telling about the type of person he was, as well as his friends (which we all knew included Kavanaugh).  I mean they had a goal of drinking 100 kegs their senior year.  That is about a pace of 3 kegs a week.  That is an insane amount of drinking even for the early 80's when drinking didn't quite have the stigma it has now. 

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #703 on: September 24, 2018, 08:19:36 AM »

Offline Eja117

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If you think this court battle is nasty wait till RGB takes that last nap during arguments and goes off to be with her BFF Scalia to watch opera forever.

When the court's most liberal judge gets replaced by a conservative one.....better wear one of those bear protection suits.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #704 on: September 24, 2018, 08:40:59 AM »

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The people who have a hard time believing this are the ones who don't want to believe.   That is true of the people who support Kavanaugh, they don't believe he would do it.   And the other side can't fathom that people are so afraid of a Roe vs. Wade overturn they would do anything to stop it.  But that is really where we are as country, right now.

I don't really agree with this assessment.  A very large percentage of the population just doesn't have the ability to spend the number of hours needed to properly vet this situation.  This country is certainly divided politically, but given the facts I believe the vast majority would still make the correct decision when provided clearer information. 

These accusations (at least thus far) are destined for decisions to be made based on ideology because there just isn't a remotely clear choice to be made.  For me personally, after reading Ronan Farrow's piece this morning, I have moved from likely hit job by the Left, to sitting on the fence and will base the decision hopefully on the hearings.

 

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