Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings-Congrats Justice Kavanaugh  (Read 48862 times)

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #660 on: September 23, 2018, 07:23:50 PM »

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #661 on: September 23, 2018, 07:37:08 PM »

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #662 on: September 23, 2018, 07:56:43 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #663 on: September 23, 2018, 08:12:30 PM »

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.

I keep seeing you say this as if it is a given. But there is resounding evidence that at the very least he committed perjury during his prior senate testimony and again during confirmation hearings this month. This, combined with his un-released work justifying "enhanced interrogation" really suggest that while he may be qualified to be a judge, he is not self-evidently a person of "impeccable character."

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #664 on: September 23, 2018, 08:23:04 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.

I keep seeing you say this as if it is a given. But there is resounding evidence that at the very least he committed perjury during his prior senate testimony and again during confirmation hearings this month. This, combined with his un-released work justifying "enhanced interrogation" really suggest that while he may be qualified to be a judge, he is not self-evidently a person of "impeccable character."

I don't think he committed perjury.

I also don't think supporting "enhanced interrogation" -- or more accurately, finding support as a lawyer for such techniques when directed to do so by your bosses -- says anything negative about somebody's character.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #665 on: September 23, 2018, 08:34:42 PM »

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.

Impeccable?  Sure, if you ignore his own 'memory lapses' in testimony.  And if you ignore his being basically named as a fellow heavy drinking party boy in the book by his high school mate.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #666 on: September 23, 2018, 08:36:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.

Impeccable?  Sure, if you ignore his own 'memory lapses' in testimony.  And if you ignore his being basically named as a fellow heavy drinking party boy in the book by his high school mate.

Lol.  Are people who drank while underage of poor moral character now?

That excludes what, 85% of the population?


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #667 on: September 23, 2018, 09:08:26 PM »

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Apparently, another woman has come forward against Kavanaugh.


My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Baynes, Irving, Tatum, Horford, Morris, Sleepy Williams

Anti:
Jabari Bird, Rozier, Yabu, Semi, Theis, Hayward

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #668 on: September 23, 2018, 09:13:46 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Apparently, another woman has come forward against Kavanaugh.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Quote
Ramirez is a registered Democrat ...[who] ďworks toward human rights, social justice, and social change.Ē

Quote
Ramirez said that she continued to socialize with one of the male classmates who had egged Kavanaugh on during the party during college; she even invited the classmate to her house for Thanksgiving one year, after he told her that he had nowhere to go. She also attended his wedding, years later, as a guest of his wife, and said that she posed for photographs with Kavanaugh, smiling.

She's also allegedly hired Stormy Daniels' attorney, so I've got some doubts.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #669 on: September 23, 2018, 09:23:56 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

She's also allegedly hired Stormy Daniels' attorney, so I've got some doubts.

No, that's a third woman. Other journalists are talking about at least one additional woman who may or may not be his client, so it's not just coming from him either. It's also notable that Stormy Daniels turned out to be telling the truth.

One of the most telling parts of the Farrow piece is that Senate Republicans knew about Ramirez last week, and their response was to push harder for a quicker vote. This explains why they didn't want the FBI sniffing around this even when it was extraordinarily unlikely they'd find evidence for Ford's allegation. It's never just once.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:36:38 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #670 on: September 23, 2018, 09:25:48 PM »

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This is ... an interesting take:

https://www.newsweek.com/gop-woman-kavanaugh-assault-claims-what-boy-hasnt-done-high-school-1134736

Quote
Another panelist, Gina Sosa, said of the allegations by Ford: ďI mean, weíre talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. Iím a woman. I respect. But weíre talking about a 17-year-old boy in high school with testosterone running high. Tell me, what boy hasnít done this in high school?Ē

Wow.

Those are some truly troubling sentiments being expressed by those women.  Excusing sexual assault is just something I barely have words for.

Yes, people should be allowed the opportunity to repent and rehabilitate, but excusing the behavior is appalling.

There are different social norms in 2018 than in 1982. Iíve been shocked by the number of older, liberal, female colleagues of mine who have expressed that this was just how things were back then.

I canít speak to that, but itís purely theoretical, because all evidence points to this being fiction.

Lack of compelling publicly known evidence that it is true is not the same as evidence pointing to it being fiction.  However much one might want it to be fiction.

Maybe one should take pause from making assertions one way or another?  It hurts nothing to wait to see how this plays out.

On one side:  an allegation from 36 years ago that has changed multiple times and which is missing almost all key details.  Of those details known, witnesses either have rejected or canít corroborate the accusers story;

On the other side: a citizen of impeccable character who has never had any complaints made against him before now.  While itís impossible for anybody to prove themselves innocent under such vague circumstances, Kavanaugh has produced contemporary alibis for much of that summer.

Impeccable?  Sure, if you ignore his own 'memory lapses' in testimony.  And if you ignore his being basically named as a fellow heavy drinking party boy in the book by his high school mate.

Lol.  Are people who drank while underage of poor moral character now?

That excludes what, 85% of the population?
Donít go having any fun now!

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #671 on: September 23, 2018, 09:29:43 PM »

Offline positivitize

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Apparently, another woman has come forward against Kavanaugh.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Quote
Ramirez is a registered Democrat ...[who] ďworks toward human rights, social justice, and social change.Ē

Quote
Ramirez said that she continued to socialize with one of the male classmates who had egged Kavanaugh on during the party during college; she even invited the classmate to her house for Thanksgiving one year, after he told her that he had nowhere to go. She also attended his wedding, years later, as a guest of his wife, and said that she posed for photographs with Kavanaugh, smiling.

She's also allegedly hired Stormy Daniels' attorney, so I've got some doubts.

I've been purposely not engaging with this subject on purpose, on these forums, because I've read a ton of troubling posts from the users here and can't really handle the added mental weight of pointless internet debates that might be purely intellectual for some people but are most definitely not purely intellectual for me. I cannot wait for this offseason to end.

I'll leave it at saying that Democrats can be sexually assaulted too. And that it's entirely possible for one to feel the social obligation to smile next to one's attacker and to do so.
My biases, in order of fervor:
Pro:
Smart, Brown, Baynes, Irving, Tatum, Horford, Morris, Sleepy Williams

Anti:
Jabari Bird, Rozier, Yabu, Semi, Theis, Hayward

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #672 on: September 23, 2018, 09:32:55 PM »

Online fairweatherfan

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So happy you guys can joke about possible sexual assault. It must be hilarious to you. Me? I don't think it's funny.

One of the few silver linings of this whole sad affair is people bursting out of the woodwork to tell on themselves, again and again. Believe them.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #673 on: September 23, 2018, 09:38:58 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Apparently, another woman has come forward against Kavanaugh.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/senate-democrats-investigate-a-new-allegation-of-sexual-misconduct-from-the-supreme-court-nominee-brett-kavanaughs-college-years-deborah-ramirez

Quote
Ramirez is a registered Democrat ...[who] ďworks toward human rights, social justice, and social change.Ē

Quote
Ramirez said that she continued to socialize with one of the male classmates who had egged Kavanaugh on during the party during college; she even invited the classmate to her house for Thanksgiving one year, after he told her that he had nowhere to go. She also attended his wedding, years later, as a guest of his wife, and said that she posed for photographs with Kavanaugh, smiling.

She's also allegedly hired Stormy Daniels' attorney, so I've got some doubts.

I've been purposely not engaging with this subject on purpose, on these forums, because I've read a ton of troubling posts from the users here and can't really handle the added mental weight of pointless internet debates that might be purely intellectual for some people but are most definitely not purely intellectual for me. I cannot wait for this offseason to end.

I'll leave it at saying that Democrats can be sexually assaulted too. And that it's entirely possible for one to feel the social obligation to smile next to one's attacker and to do so.

What about this one?

Quote
The New Yorker has not confirmed with other eyewitnesses that Kavanaugh was present at the party. The magazine contacted several dozen classmates of Ramirez and Kavanaugh regarding the incident.

Quote
One of the male classmates who Ramirez said egged on Kavanaugh denied any memory of the party. ďI donít think Brett would flash himself to Debbie, or anyone, for that matter,Ē he said. Asked why he thought Ramirez was making the allegation, he responded, ďI have no idea.Ē The other male classmate who Ramirez said was involved in the incident commented, ďI have zero recollection.Ē

In a statement, two of those male classmates who Ramirez alleged were involved in the incident, the wife of a third male student she said was involved, and three other classmates, Dino Ewing, Louisa Garry, and Dan Murphy, disputed Ramirezís account of events: ďWe were the people closest to Brett Kavanaugh during his first year at Yale. He was a roommate to some of us, and we spent a great deal of time with him, including in the dorm where this incident allegedly took place. Some of us were also friends with Debbie Ramirez during and after her time at Yale. We can say with confidence that if the incident Debbie alleges ever occurred, we would have seen or heard about itóand we did not. The behavior she describes would be completely out of character for Brett. In addition, some of us knew Debbie long after Yale, and she never described this incident until Brettís Supreme Court nomination was pending. Editors from the New Yorker contacted some of us because we are the people who would know the truth, and we told them that we never saw or heard about this.Ē

The former friend who was married to the male classmate alleged to be involved, and who signed the statement, said of Ramirez, ďThis is a woman I was best friends with. We shared intimate details of our lives. And I was never told this story by her, or by anyone else. It never came up. I didnít see it; I never heard of it happening.Ē She said she hadnít spoken with Ramirez for about ten years, but that the two women had been close all through college, and Kavanaugh had remained part of what she called their ďlarger social circle.Ē In an initial conversation with The New Yorker, she suggested that Ramirez may have been politically motivated. Later, she said that she did not know if this was the case.

Quote
A third classmate, who Ramirez thought had attended the party, said that she was not present at the incident.

Several dozens of classmates interviewed; none of them saw it happen.  People who were allegedly at the party have denied it, and Ramirez continued to socialize with some of those people for many years after graduation.

Maybe she's telling the truth.  I just doubt it, since this was so predictable:

Quote from: Roy H. on September 19
One thing that absolutely didn't happen:  he didn't rape her.  Nobody has alleged that.

Well, at least until the night before the hearing.  Then I'm sure the Washington Post or MSNBC or DailyKos will undercover some other accuser that the Democrats have been keeping secret for months.

Dang it, I missed it.  It wasn't a rape allegation, it was a penis in the face.  And it wasn't the Post or MSNBC, it was the New Yorker.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 09:46:48 PM by Roy H. »


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #674 on: September 23, 2018, 09:48:05 PM »

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So happy you guys can joke about possible sexual assault. It must be hilarious to you. Me? I don't think it's funny.

One of the few silver linings of this whole sad affair is people bursting out of the woodwork to tell on themselves, again and again. Believe them.
Sadly, very true.

 

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