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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #615 on: September 22, 2018, 10:51:57 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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We already know about the allegation.  So it is out there in the public eye, were it me, I would want to nail Kavanaugh with my testimony. 

Asking the for delay does not add up in my book.   Why?   She can't decide over the weekend?   What good reason is there?   Trying to understand here?

I think we should hear both sides of the story.   But one side does not seem to want to talk.   If this is true, left or right, none of us should want him to serve.   But I think he deserves to have a chance to face his accuser and due process.

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That is truly the height of hypocrisy.

No the height of hypocrisy is not having a hearing on Keith Ellison, when his accuser has medical information and ignoring it but acting sanctimonious here when they have hearsay based testimony.  That to me smacks of even greater hypocrisy because they have selective hearing on these me too, stuff.   If it was done by someone they view as a Democratic star like say Clinton or Ellison it is ignored.

I think both the left and right are hypocrits,  these two parties have done more harm than good for the country.   Country should come first not party.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #616 on: September 22, 2018, 11:41:48 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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We already know about the allegation.  So it is out there in the public eye, were it me, I would want to nail Kavanaugh with my testimony. 

Asking the for delay does not add up in my book.   Why?   She can't decide over the weekend?   What good reason is there?   Trying to understand here?

I think we should hear both sides of the story.   But one side does not seem to want to talk.   If this is true, left or right, none of us should want him to serve.   But I think he deserves to have a chance to face his accuser and due process.

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That is truly the height of hypocrisy.

No the height of hypocrisy is not having a hearing on Keith Ellison, when his accuser has medical information and ignoring it but acting sanctimonious here when they have hearsay based testimony.  That to me smacks of even greater hypocrisy because they have selective hearing on these me too, stuff.   If it was done by someone they view as a Democratic star like say Clinton or Ellison it is ignored.

I think both the left and right are hypocrits,  these two parties have done more harm than good for the country.   Country should come first not party.
Ellis is voluntarily LEAVING the House. So unfair! (Trump voice)

And we wouldn't be hearing about Ellison right now if it wasn't for Kavanaugh. Nice distraction i guess?

Kavanaugh is literally in the process of being vetted right now. Sorting through these allegations is 100% appropriate.

And TBH Ellis' fate is not nearly as important as a rare vacant Supreme Court seat. So let's get real here, there's a good reason one story has gotten a lot more coverage than the other.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #617 on: September 22, 2018, 03:01:11 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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That is truly the height of hypocrisy.

No the height of hypocrisy is not having a hearing on Keith Ellison, when his accuser has medical information and ignoring it but acting sanctimonious here when they have hearsay based testimony.  That to me smacks of even greater hypocrisy because they have selective hearing on these me too, stuff.   If it was done by someone they view as a Democratic star like say Clinton or Ellison it is ignored.

The Republicans control both the House and Senate, any kind of hearing would come from them, so not sure what you're getting at here.

If Ellison did this, he's scum and I hope voters and law enforcement are already in the process of burying him. It's worth noting the medical evidence is pretty much the same thing as Ford's therapist's note, it's a professional recording that their client reported abuse. But it's more than enough to start a full-scale investigation.

Nobody should be attached to any of these people, politics is full of trash people and we should all be ready to toss them as soon as they show themselves. But they're very different situations from a Congressional perspective and I'm glad the Republicans are treating them differently.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #618 on: September 22, 2018, 03:30:41 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I don't know if people have been following the Whelan "mistaken identity" thing but it's wild. He developed the idea with a major right-wing PR firm known for the infamous Swift Boat ads of 04, who've been working with the Federalist Society and Judicial Crisis Network coordinating messaging for Kavanaugh.

It turns out Dr. Ford caught Whelan looking around her LinkedIn page on Sunday morning before her name became public (they have an email she sent about it). His infamous theory also appears to know who the other girl that attended the alleged party was and where she lived at the time. Her identity's never been made public.

So the timeline is

- Whelan knowing who Ford was and poking around her social media on Sunday
- Kavanaugh telling Orrin Hatch it might be mistaken identity on Monday
- Hatch on TV and the WSJ editorial board suggesting the same thing on Monday and Tuesday
- Whelan teasing the theory on Tuesday and calling it compelling evidence that would completely exonerate Kavanaugh and force Feinstein to apologize to him.
- lots of well-connected R figures, including Hatch's staff telling people to watch for his posts across Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday morning.
- Whelan posts elaborate, detailed alternative theory with some insider information about Ford's allegation that doxxes a middle school teacher while casting suspicion on him as someone who could've tried to rape Ford and been mistaken for Kavanaugh on Thursday.
- Whelan deletes the thread and apologizes less than 24 hrs later.

Pretty good summary here 

I can't get over how crazy this is. A coordinated rollout of an alternative theory of an extremely high-profile sex crime, based entirely on conjecture and fingering a specific person as a possible culprit with name, picture, and former address.

The most charitable explanation I can think of is that they wanted an angle to defend their guy without attacking Dr. Ford, but that's still incredibly irresponsible to drag this other guy in. The less charitable explanation is that it's an act of desperation and they really don't want the FBI or anyone else poking around any narrative but their own. Either way they need to get Kavanaugh under oath on whether he knew anything about this. Absolutely bonkers and appalling even by our current lofty standards.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 03:39:18 PM by fairweatherfan »

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #619 on: September 22, 2018, 03:35:21 PM »

Offline Cman

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I don't know if people have been following the Whelan "mistaken identity" thing but it's wild. He developed the idea with a major right-wing PR firm that's been working with the Federalist Society and Judicial Crisis Network coordinating messaging for Kavanaugh.

It turns out Dr. Ford caught Whelan looking around her LinkedIn page on Sunday morning before her name became public (they have an email she sent about it). His infamous theory also appears to know who the other girl that attended the alleged party was and where she lived at the time. Her identity's never been made public.

So the timeline is

- Whelan knowing who Ford was and poking around her social media on Sunday
- Kavanaugh telling Orrin Hatch it might be mistaken identity on Monday
- Hatch on TV and the WSJ editorial board suggesting the same thing on Monday and Tuesday
- Whelan teasing the theory on Tuesday
- lots of well-connected R figures, including Hatch's staff telling people to watch for his posts across Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday morning.
- Whelan posts elaborate, detailed alternative theory with some non-public information about Ford's allegation that doxxes a middle school teacher while casting suspicion on him as someone who could've tried to rape Ford and been mistaken for Kavanaugh on Thursday.
- Whelan deletes the thread and apologizes less than 24 hrs later.

Pretty good summary here 

I can't get over how crazy this is. A coordinated rollout of an alternative theory of a sex crime, based entirely on conjecture and fingering a specific person as a possible culprit with name, picture, and former address.

The most charitable explanation I can think of is that they wanted an angle to defend their guy without attacking Dr. Ford, but that's still incredibly irresponsible to drag this other guy in. The less charitable explanation is that it's an act of desperation and they really don't want the FBI or anyone else poking around any narrative but their own. Either way they need to get Kavanaugh under oath on whether he knew anything about this. Absolutely bonkers and appalling even by our current lofty standards.

Whelan really screwed up. This type of hijinx might’ve worked a decade ago but it just comes across as ham handed nowadays.

My preferred (charitable) take is that there was no “coordination” just Whelan trying his best to help out Kavanaugh. But failing terribly.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #620 on: September 22, 2018, 03:42:04 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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My preferred (charitable) take is that there was no “coordination” just Whelan trying his best to help out Kavanaugh. But failing terribly.

I added a link with more detail on that. There appears to be coordination though he didn't tell most people he knew what his "compelling evidence" was.

Also has a bit about this morning's news, that the Judiciary Committee just fired a top comms guy (on leave from that same PR firm) when it came out he lost his last job over an allegation of sexual harassment.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #621 on: September 22, 2018, 04:45:23 PM »

Offline Cman

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My preferred (charitable) take is that there was no “coordination” just Whelan trying his best to help out Kavanaugh. But failing terribly.

I added a link with more detail on that. There appears to be coordination though he didn't tell most people he knew what his "compelling evidence" was.

Also has a bit about this morning's news, that the Judiciary Committee just fired a top comms guy (on leave from that same PR firm) when it came out he lost his last job over an allegation of sexual harassment.

Not coordination with Kavanaugh though, right?

I could see coordination with the WH but not Kavanaugh. That would be a really stupid move bc it would suggest he feels guilty.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #622 on: September 22, 2018, 05:08:05 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Regardless of whatever the truth is with this accusation, the politics being played here by both sides, but particularly the Republicans, just makes me sad.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #623 on: September 22, 2018, 05:20:47 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't know if people have been following the Whelan "mistaken identity" thing but it's wild. He developed the idea with a major right-wing PR firm known for the infamous Swift Boat ads of 04, who've been working with the Federalist Society and Judicial Crisis Network coordinating messaging for Kavanaugh.

It turns out Dr. Ford caught Whelan looking around her LinkedIn page on Sunday morning before her name became public (they have an email she sent about it). His infamous theory also appears to know who the other girl that attended the alleged party was and where she lived at the time. Her identity's never been made public.

So the timeline is

- Whelan knowing who Ford was and poking around her social media on Sunday
- Kavanaugh telling Orrin Hatch it might be mistaken identity on Monday
- Hatch on TV and the WSJ editorial board suggesting the same thing on Monday and Tuesday
- Whelan teasing the theory on Tuesday and calling it compelling evidence that would completely exonerate Kavanaugh and force Feinstein to apologize to him.
- lots of well-connected R figures, including Hatch's staff telling people to watch for his posts across Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday morning.
- Whelan posts elaborate, detailed alternative theory with some insider information about Ford's allegation that doxxes a middle school teacher while casting suspicion on him as someone who could've tried to rape Ford and been mistaken for Kavanaugh on Thursday.
- Whelan deletes the thread and apologizes less than 24 hrs later.

Pretty good summary here 

I can't get over how crazy this is. A coordinated rollout of an alternative theory of an extremely high-profile sex crime, based entirely on conjecture and fingering a specific person as a possible culprit with name, picture, and former address.

The most charitable explanation I can think of is that they wanted an angle to defend their guy without attacking Dr. Ford, but that's still incredibly irresponsible to drag this other guy in. The less charitable explanation is that it's an act of desperation and they really don't want the FBI or anyone else poking around any narrative but their own. Either way they need to get Kavanaugh under oath on whether he knew anything about this. Absolutely bonkers and appalling even by our current lofty standards.

It's pretty bizarre.  I understand "amateur sleuthing"; there are message boards dedicated to it, and some people really get into it.  And, by that amateurish standard, Whelan's theory is actually pretty interesting. 

But, we're not dealing with an amateurish hobby here.  Whelan is (or was) a very well-respected and influential voice in the conservative legal community.  He's got a large reach, and when he says he's got something substantial, that's expected to mean something.  For him to suggest that this is actual proof of innocence is very odd to me.  Pointing the finger at somebody who is very likely innocent just seems unethical.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #624 on: September 23, 2018, 09:20:14 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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The Washington Post reports Saturday that Christine Blasey Ford told them that Leland Keyser was at that high school party.

A GOP Judiciary Committee investigator contacted Keyser last Tuesday, saying Keyser had been "identified" as attending that party and wanted to talk to her. Committee spokesman Taylor Foy said Keyser's name "came up" in its investigation.

But in an email late Saturday, Keyser attorney Howard Walsh told the committee she "does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection" of ever attending a gathering with Kavanaugh.


That’s the mysterious female guest who was mentioned for the first time by Ford’s Attorney.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #625 on: September 23, 2018, 09:22:31 AM »

Offline Eja117

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The Washington Post reports Saturday that Christine Blasey Ford told them that Leland Keyser was at that high school party.

A GOP Judiciary Committee investigator contacted Keyser last Tuesday, saying Keyser had been "identified" as attending that party and wanted to talk to her. Committee spokesman Taylor Foy said Keyser's name "came up" in its investigation.

But in an email late Saturday, Keyser attorney Howard Walsh told the committee she "does not know Mr. Kavanaugh and she has no recollection" of ever attending a gathering with Kavanaugh.


That’s the mysterious female guest who was mentioned for the first time by Ford’s Attorney.
I heard Bigfoot may be called in to testify. That dude is everywhere.

Also the Real Ghostbusters are trying to contact the dead for any information the underworld might have.

If they have to go nuclear the Senate may be called to say the B word three times.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #626 on: September 23, 2018, 09:27:09 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Ellis is voluntarily LEAVING the House. So unfair! (Trump voice)

Its not unfair, his peers in the democratic party did not want to hear that case or go public with it, did they?   They said nigh, a word, so hypocrits for certain.

More and more witnesses are saying it never happened.   I am starting not to believe her story.

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And TBH Ellis' fate is not nearly as important as a rare vacant Supreme Court seat. So let's get real here, there's a good reason one story has gotten a lot more coverage than the other.

Isn't it a potentially worse crime, though.  Read this:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/09/keith-ellison-brett-kavanaugh-hypocrisy-violence-against-women/

Sure a supreme court, but face, your minimizing this and your clearly not aware of all the Ellison facts.   Also, I would point out that your partisan views automatically sway you somewhat.   But laying on someone and putting your hand on their mouth allegedly vs. violent assault.   

One we have police records,

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/08/another-keith-ellison-sexual-assault-charge.php

the other a woman who can't even recall details.   One thing I can the date of almost traumatic events in my life.  Can you?  There is a difference here.

I think it is wrong in both cases, but I think both men should get their day in court and due process.   The difference is I am independent and vote for whom I think will do the best job with no party affiliations.


Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #627 on: September 23, 2018, 09:48:57 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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[Keyser’s]lawyer acknowledged to CNN that Keyser is a lifelong friend of Ford's.

So not even her lifelong friend will back her up?  The lifelong friend who was mentioned not in 2012, not in the July letter, but rather in the last few days?

And, at no point did she say to her lifelong friend “Hey, remember that party at that unknown location at that unknown time that I’ve recently decided you were at? Well, four — err, I mean two — boys tried to rape me and I feared for my life, and one of those boys was Brett Kavanaugh.”

Believe women evidence.



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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #628 on: September 23, 2018, 01:44:39 PM »

Online Sophomore

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[Keyser’s]lawyer acknowledged to CNN that Keyser is a lifelong friend of Ford's.

So not even her lifelong friend will back her up?  The lifelong friend who was mentioned not in 2012, not in the July letter, but rather in the last few days?

And, at no point did she say to her lifelong friend “Hey, remember that party at that unknown location at that unknown time that I’ve recently decided you were at? Well, four — err, I mean two — boys tried to rape me and I feared for my life, and one of those boys was Brett Kavanaugh.”

Believe women evidence.

Saying her friend "did not back her up" is not a fair representation. Keyser says she believes Ford, and explains it is unsurprising that she doesn't remember the party because nothing important happened to her there.

Isn't that the way memory works for you, too? If something very important happened to you, you will remember it. A friend who was also there or nearby - if they did not notice it at the time - would have no memory of it at all.

As to the claims some have made that if there had been an attempted rape she would have gone to the police - that does not square with my experience of life. Even today, many adult women hesitate to come forward. We are talking about a 15-year old girl back in the 1980s who, by her (credible) account, was shocked and mortified and did not want to know about it herself - forget letting anybody else know. We will hear more from her, but I believe she will testify that in her world, nobody wanted to hear about such things. That even if they might consider believing her they would give her part of the blame and want to defend the boy to avoid destroying his future. There are so many stories of women who did not share stories like this - I've heard them from friends over the last few weeks. Does that really not ring true to you?

Here is more context for the Keyser quote:

"In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation.
Before her name became public, Ford told The Post she did not think Keyser would remember the party because nothing remarkable had happened there, as far as Keyser was aware. Ford has said she did not tell anyone about the alleged assault until 2012.

“It’s not surprising that Ms Keyser has no recollection of the evening as they did not discuss it,” Katz said in a statement. “It’s also unremarkable that Ms. Keyser does not remember attending a specific gathering 30 years ago at which nothing of consequence happened to her. Dr. Ford of course will never forget this gathering because of what happened to her there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawyers-for-christine-blasey-ford-say-she-has-accepted-senate-judiciary-committees-request-to-testify-against-kavanaugh/2018/09/22/e8199c6a-be8f-11e8-8792-78719177250f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.30a37b68b8d7

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #629 on: September 23, 2018, 02:26:50 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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[Keyser’s]lawyer acknowledged to CNN that Keyser is a lifelong friend of Ford's.

So not even her lifelong friend will back her up?  The lifelong friend who was mentioned not in 2012, not in the July letter, but rather in the last few days?

And, at no point did she say to her lifelong friend “Hey, remember that party at that unknown location at that unknown time that I’ve recently decided you were at? Well, four — err, I mean two — boys tried to rape me and I feared for my life, and one of those boys was Brett Kavanaugh.”

Believe women evidence.

Saying her friend "did not back her up" is not a fair representation. Keyser says she believes Ford, and explains it is unsurprising that she doesn't remember the party because nothing important happened to her there.

Isn't that the way memory works for you, too? If something very important happened to you, you will remember it. A friend who was also there or nearby - if they did not notice it at the time - would have no memory of it at all.

As to the claims some have made that if there had been an attempted rape she would have gone to the police - that does not square with my experience of life. Even today, many adult women hesitate to come forward. We are talking about a 15-year old girl back in the 1980s who, by her (credible) account, was shocked and mortified and did not want to know about it herself - forget letting anybody else know. We will hear more from her, but I believe she will testify that in her world, nobody wanted to hear about such things. That even if they might consider believing her they would give her part of the blame and want to defend the boy to avoid destroying his future. There are so many stories of women who did not share stories like this - I've heard them from friends over the last few weeks. Does that really not ring true to you?

Here is more context for the Keyser quote:

"In a brief interview at her home in Silver Spring, Keyser said that she did not recall the party, but that she was close friends with Ford and that she believes Ford’s allegation.
Before her name became public, Ford told The Post she did not think Keyser would remember the party because nothing remarkable had happened there, as far as Keyser was aware. Ford has said she did not tell anyone about the alleged assault until 2012.

“It’s not surprising that Ms Keyser has no recollection of the evening as they did not discuss it,” Katz said in a statement. “It’s also unremarkable that Ms. Keyser does not remember attending a specific gathering 30 years ago at which nothing of consequence happened to her. Dr. Ford of course will never forget this gathering because of what happened to her there.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/lawyers-for-christine-blasey-ford-say-she-has-accepted-senate-judiciary-committees-request-to-testify-against-kavanaugh/2018/09/22/e8199c6a-be8f-11e8-8792-78719177250f_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.30a37b68b8d7

I don’t know. I would expect that if 2 or 4 boys attempted to rape my friend at a small gathering of friends, I’d pick up on her feeling upset at the time. Or maybe I’d have heard her alleged screams over the music. Or ask her “Hey, you and those guys I’ve never met were upstairs a long time and the music got awfully loud; are you ok?”? Or that she’d mention the alleged attack to me sometime in our 36+ years of friendship.

Of course, today my first question would be “Why did you tell your therapist that I was a guy, and participated in your attack?”

Quote
Dr. Ford of course will never forget this gathering because of what happened to her there.”

Never forget it except for the time, place, how she got there, how she got home, who was there, and who allegedly attempted to rape her.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:37:17 PM by Roy H. »


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