Author Topic: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings-Congrats Justice Kavanaugh  (Read 50192 times)

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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2018, 05:55:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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As for all the progressive hand-wringing, I fully expect Roberts to fulfill the Kennedy role of swing vote. I suspect things will stay much like they are now.


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2018, 05:58:20 PM »

Offline byennie

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I think Pres. Trump will select Andrew Napolitano.

I don’t think so. I think he’ll select somebody qualified.
When's the last time Trump picked anyone qualified? I mean, like him or not, this is the same guy who installed (among others) Carson, DeVos, Pruitt, Perry... all people specifically with agendas and zero qualifications for the actual job.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2018, 06:02:46 PM »

Offline byennie

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As for all the progressive hand-wringing, I fully expect Roberts to fulfill the Kennedy role of swing vote. I suspect things will stay much like they are now.
Totally possible, but I think there's Garland hangover at play here.

Obama and the democrats should have made it WWIII in Congress when the Senate sat on its hands for 10 months over a very moderate and qualified candidate. Total and utter obstruction of democracy. I've heard the argument that Obama should have had the guts to name a progressive, so his base would have cried foul at the rejection, but of course that would cut both ways.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2018, 06:06:34 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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From McConnell himself:
Quote
“The Senate stands ready to fulfill its constitutional role by offering advice and consent on President Trump’s nominee to fill this vacancy,” Mr. McConnell, Republican of Kentucky and the majority leader, said after Justice Anthony Kennedy announced his retirement. “We will vote to confirm Justice Kennedy’s successor this fall.”

From McConnell in 2016:
Quote
"One of my proudest moments was when I told Obama, 'You will not fill this Supreme Court vacancy,"

It's like you can't make this stuff up. Republicans who voted for Trump over Hillary - we know who you are - got exactly what they wanted. It's amazing a president can can lose the popular vote by nearly 3 million votes, yet have so much impact on the next generation. And we are only 1 1/2 years in. Hang in there Ruth, we need you!

Were you so upset when Schumer and Biden delayed judicial appointments when Bush was president?

LOL leftists cannot adjust to the fact that they don't have decades long control of congress any longer, and that half the country vehemently disagrees with their world view.

If there was half the concern for the judicial branch imagining rights for mentally ill and perverted men who pretend to be women, robbing Americans of their 2nd amendment right, or forcing people at the point of a gun to buy health insurance or bake cakes for homosexual weddings, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Most of you have zero concern for individual rights. You want a congress and judicial branch that codifies your infringements on freedom.

Sorry, as our former president said just a few years ago, "elections have consequences". And America elected MAGA as president and republicans in charge of both houses of congress. To act as though Obama and Schumer wouldn't do the same thing if they were in charge is a joke and a lie.

Keep talking up impeachment. It makes Trump stronger by the day.
Putting all the civil rights issues aside for a moment, what the GOP has done in the past 2 years with the Supreme Court is a completely unprecedented party-first power play. There is nothing remotely similar to:

1) Refusing to vote on a nomination for 10 months.. and the appointee was a left-CENTRIST (leave it to liberals to compromise upfront and get screwed).

2) Make rule changes specifically so they could force through subsequent appointees without a filibuster and unbalance the court as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The GOP is not playing at democracy, they are running a slow moving coup to install a conservative America, and fueling it on the backs of culture war.

The truth

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2018, 06:14:25 PM »

Offline mef730

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Quote
I think Pres. Trump will select Andrew Napolitano.

I don’t think so. I think he’ll select somebody qualified.
When's the last time Trump picked anyone qualified? I mean, like him or not, this is the same guy who installed (among others) Carson, DeVos, Pruitt, Perry... all people specifically with agendas and zero qualifications for the actual job.

Say what you will about Gorsuch and his politics, but there’s no questioning that he’s qualified. He may be the only qualified nomination that POTUS has made, but he is qualified.

As to your comment above about leaving it to the liberals to compromise and lose anyway, you hit that right on the head. If there’s one thing we do we’ll, it’s losing battles that we should have won. Screw this “they go low we go high” stuff. I’m done with that.

Mike
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2018, 06:14:34 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
I think Pres. Trump will select Andrew Napolitano.

I don’t think so. I think he’ll select somebody qualified.
When's the last time Trump picked anyone qualified? I mean, like him or not, this is the same guy who installed (among others) Carson, DeVos, Pruitt, Perry... all people specifically with agendas and zero qualifications for the actual job.

Gorsuch. 


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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2018, 06:20:00 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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As for all the progressive hand-wringing, I fully expect Roberts to fulfill the Kennedy role of swing vote. I suspect things will stay much like they are now.
Apparently people have actual metrics for this. While Roberts will likely be the most moderate remaining justice, he still leans to the conservative side.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/chief-justice-john-roberts-is-now-the-supreme-courts-swing-vote/
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2018, 06:22:42 PM »

Offline byennie

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Putting all the civil rights issues aside for a moment, what the GOP has done in the past 2 years with the Supreme Court is a completely unprecedented party-first power play. There is nothing remotely similar to:

1) Refusing to vote on a nomination for 10 months.. and the appointee was a left-CENTRIST (leave it to liberals to compromise upfront and get screwed).

2) Make rule changes specifically so they could force through subsequent appointees without a filibuster and unbalance the court as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The GOP is not playing at democracy, they are running a slow moving coup to install a conservative America, and fueling it on the backs of culture war.

The truth
The bottom line is that the GOP has a playbook for "winning" at American politics. I consider it dirty politics, anti-democratic, and in some cases downright unconstitutional. Their base considers it smart, tough and justified.

1) Stoke your base in red states with cultural issues. Abortion, Supreme Court, immigration. You can win elections and lose the popular vote by taking advantage of the electoral college. Cast all democrats as elitists and wannabe socialists.

2) Pour money into winning state seats, so that you can gerrymander districts. Now The House has more GOP seats than expected - electoral strategy all over again.

3) Take ownership of patriotism - military, MAGA etc when you have no particular moral authority or stronger record here. Example: funding for the VA.

4) Exploit every loophole in a partisan manner. Anything Obama touches is automatically rejected. Refuse to confirm Garland. If you can vote to change a rule in your favor, do it that way.

5) Unity. No matter if it's a child molester, a philanderer, a liar, an ex-Democrat, always act as a blockade and keep your own people in office.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2018, 06:24:59 PM »

Offline byennie

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Quote
I think Pres. Trump will select Andrew Napolitano.

I don’t think so. I think he’ll select somebody qualified.
When's the last time Trump picked anyone qualified? I mean, like him or not, this is the same guy who installed (among others) Carson, DeVos, Pruitt, Perry... all people specifically with agendas and zero qualifications for the actual job.

Gorsuch.

In consider Gorsuch to have been pre-ordained and Trump just signed the check, but yeah, fair point.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2018, 06:52:03 PM »

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I prefer a Supreme Court with at least one centrist swing vote. 4 conservatives, 4 liberals, 1 swing. Or better 3 conservatives, 3 liberals and 3 swings. I think having things this way is best for America.

If Trump eventually gets this court to 6-3 conservatives to liberals I fear for a woman to decide on their own bodies. I fear for equal rights for the LGBT community. I fear for the rights of individuals over rights of corporations. I fear for those of religions other than christians. I fear for the rights of people of color.


Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2018, 06:52:54 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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I think Pres. Trump will select Andrew Napolitano.

I don’t think so. I think he’ll select somebody qualified.

Yeah, there’s no way Trump isn’t going with the most inoffensive conservative candidate he can find. It’ll be awful for people who think the way I do politically, but it won’t be anybody that could possibly get the more centrist Reupblican Senators to reject.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2018, 07:19:00 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Putting all the civil rights issues aside for a moment, what the GOP has done in the past 2 years with the Supreme Court is a completely unprecedented party-first power play. There is nothing remotely similar to:

1) Refusing to vote on a nomination for 10 months.. and the appointee was a left-CENTRIST (leave it to liberals to compromise upfront and get screwed).

2) Make rule changes specifically so they could force through subsequent appointees without a filibuster and unbalance the court as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The GOP is not playing at democracy, they are running a slow moving coup to install a conservative America, and fueling it on the backs of culture war.

The truth
The bottom line is that the GOP has a playbook for "winning" at American politics. I consider it dirty politics, anti-democratic, and in some cases downright unconstitutional. Their base considers it smart, tough and justified.

1) Stoke your base in red states with cultural issues. Abortion, Supreme Court, immigration. You can win elections and lose the popular vote by taking advantage of the electoral college. Cast all democrats as elitists and wannabe socialists.

2) Pour money into winning state seats, so that you can gerrymander districts. Now The House has more GOP seats than expected - electoral strategy all over again.

3) Take ownership of patriotism - military, MAGA etc when you have no particular moral authority or stronger record here. Example: funding for the VA.

4) Exploit every loophole in a partisan manner. Anything Obama touches is automatically rejected. Refuse to confirm Garland. If you can vote to change a rule in your favor, do it that way.

5) Unity. No matter if it's a child molester, a philanderer, a liar, an ex-Democrat, always act as a blockade and keep your own people in office.
Worth noting democrats have a pretty similar playbook.

There isnt a moral party.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2018, 07:25:57 PM »

Offline byennie

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Putting all the civil rights issues aside for a moment, what the GOP has done in the past 2 years with the Supreme Court is a completely unprecedented party-first power play. There is nothing remotely similar to:

1) Refusing to vote on a nomination for 10 months.. and the appointee was a left-CENTRIST (leave it to liberals to compromise upfront and get screwed).

2) Make rule changes specifically so they could force through subsequent appointees without a filibuster and unbalance the court as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The GOP is not playing at democracy, they are running a slow moving coup to install a conservative America, and fueling it on the backs of culture war.

The truth
The bottom line is that the GOP has a playbook for "winning" at American politics. I consider it dirty politics, anti-democratic, and in some cases downright unconstitutional. Their base considers it smart, tough and justified.

1) Stoke your base in red states with cultural issues. Abortion, Supreme Court, immigration. You can win elections and lose the popular vote by taking advantage of the electoral college. Cast all democrats as elitists and wannabe socialists.

2) Pour money into winning state seats, so that you can gerrymander districts. Now The House has more GOP seats than expected - electoral strategy all over again.

3) Take ownership of patriotism - military, MAGA etc when you have no particular moral authority or stronger record here. Example: funding for the VA.

4) Exploit every loophole in a partisan manner. Anything Obama touches is automatically rejected. Refuse to confirm Garland. If you can vote to change a rule in your favor, do it that way.

5) Unity. No matter if it's a child molester, a philanderer, a liar, an ex-Democrat, always act as a blockade and keep your own people in office.
Worth noting democrats have a pretty similar playbook.

There isnt a moral party.
I agree with the latter, but not the former. The GOP has been decidedly more cutthroat and partisan for at least the past 20 years.

In fact, I'd say democrats focus on none of those 5 things as much. They:

1) Focus more (than the GOP) on policy, albeit plenty of identity politics as well.

2) Get creamed at the state level, because it *hasn't* been the party strategy

3) Never manage to make an effective pro-military argument

4) Have never obstructed at any level approaching the current state. Simple filibustering of the past doesn't even rate on this scale.

5) Bernie vs Hillary is a classic example, but democrats repeatedly throw their own under the bus for the moral/ ideological high ground

Both parties are really messed up, but there's also no real equivalency here. It scares me that so many people can't see the difference and want to lump a little with a lot.
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Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2018, 07:44:42 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Putting all the civil rights issues aside for a moment, what the GOP has done in the past 2 years with the Supreme Court is a completely unprecedented party-first power play. There is nothing remotely similar to:

1) Refusing to vote on a nomination for 10 months.. and the appointee was a left-CENTRIST (leave it to liberals to compromise upfront and get screwed).

2) Make rule changes specifically so they could force through subsequent appointees without a filibuster and unbalance the court as much as possible as quickly as possible.

The GOP is not playing at democracy, they are running a slow moving coup to install a conservative America, and fueling it on the backs of culture war.

The truth
The bottom line is that the GOP has a playbook for "winning" at American politics. I consider it dirty politics, anti-democratic, and in some cases downright unconstitutional. Their base considers it smart, tough and justified.

1) Stoke your base in red states with cultural issues. Abortion, Supreme Court, immigration. You can win elections and lose the popular vote by taking advantage of the electoral college. Cast all democrats as elitists and wannabe socialists.

2) Pour money into winning state seats, so that you can gerrymander districts. Now The House has more GOP seats than expected - electoral strategy all over again.

3) Take ownership of patriotism - military, MAGA etc when you have no particular moral authority or stronger record here. Example: funding for the VA.

4) Exploit every loophole in a partisan manner. Anything Obama touches is automatically rejected. Refuse to confirm Garland. If you can vote to change a rule in your favor, do it that way.

5) Unity. No matter if it's a child molester, a philanderer, a liar, an ex-Democrat, always act as a blockade and keep your own people in office.
Worth noting democrats have a pretty similar playbook.

There isnt a moral party.
I agree with the latter, but not the former. The GOP has been decidedly more cutthroat and partisan for at least the past 20 years.

In fact, I'd say democrats focus on none of those 5 things as much. They:

1) Focus more (than the GOP) on policy, albeit plenty of identity politics as well.

2) Get creamed at the state level, because it *hasn't* been the party strategy

3) Never manage to make an effective pro-military argument

4) Have never obstructed at any level approaching the current state. Simple filibustering of the past doesn't even rate on this scale.

5) Bernie vs Hillary is a classic example, but democrats repeatedly throw their own under the bus for the moral/ ideological high ground

Both parties are really messed up, but there's also no real equivalency here. It scares me that so many people can't see the difference and want to lump a little with a lot.
I just don't agree with almost any of this.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Justice Kennedy retiring-Kavanaugh procedings
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2018, 07:54:17 PM »

Offline byennie

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I agree with the latter, but not the former. The GOP has been decidedly more cutthroat and partisan for at least the past 20 years.

In fact, I'd say democrats focus on none of those 5 things as much. They:

1) Focus more (than the GOP) on policy, albeit plenty of identity politics as well.

2) Get creamed at the state level, because it *hasn't* been the party strategy

3) Never manage to make an effective pro-military argument

4) Have never obstructed at any level approaching the current state. Simple filibustering of the past doesn't even rate on this scale.

5) Bernie vs Hillary is a classic example, but democrats repeatedly throw their own under the bus for the moral/ ideological high ground

Both parties are really messed up, but there's also no real equivalency here. It scares me that so many people can't see the difference and want to lump a little with a lot.
I just don't agree with almost any of this.

Can you give any specifics? You're entitled to your opinion (and I'm sure there is some gray area), but simply saying "they do it too" seems conveniently simplistic to me.

We just experienced Hillary making an uninspiring run based on policy, undermined by a rift within the party (or conversely, Bernie was undermined).

GOP strategists are specifically behind the state of state legislatures - obviously democrats do try to win elections, but it's actual top-down strategy from only one side or a while now.

The GOP is universally accepted as the pro-military party, even though they won't fund the VA and marched us into Iraq.

The obstruction of Garland was unprecedented. Period. No equal.

GOP stated strategy was to obstruct Obama into a single term. Democrats have never done this.

I'm not trying to make a sweeping moral judgement here, but isn't the above basically factual?
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