At least don't make wedding cakes at all if a baker won't be able to do so for all customers. Make pies. I like a good fruit tart. My Pepere liked creme puffs. There is plenty of other niches in the culinary profession.
Or, you could just find a new baker. What right do we have to tell somebody what they must and mustn’t bake?
This is what I don't understand. If consumers can "discriminate" by choosing which sellers to buy goods and services from, for whatever reason, why can't businesses "discriminate" by choosing their clientele? If I, as a Celtics fan, don't want to do business with a Lakers fan, what's wrong with that? What if I'm a short person with an inferiority complex and don't want to do business with tall people?
I'm not trying to make light of the LGBT situation, but I don't think there's anything inherent in owning a business that equates to, or necessitates, having to do business with anyone who walks through my door.
And I'm being perfectly honest when I say that if I walk into a business, and they refuse to do business with me, for whatever reason, I have no problem turning around and walking away and finding another business that'll work with me, without suing the place that refused me and trying to make an example of them.
So are you saying businesses should be able to refuse any and all service to someone simply because of their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, among other things?
That's something I just don't agree with.
I only side with the baker in this case merely because of the element of speech. Denying someone common service in your restaurant, bar, comic book shop, ect is different and wrong.
I'm saying two things:
1) As someone with a bit of a libertarian streak, I dislike the general notion of telling businesses what they can and can't do (outside of obvious business-related no-nos, like fraud, for example).
2) The principles of discrimination (or antidiscrimination, depending on how you look at it) are not uniformly applied. Why can consumers discriminate without any restriction whatsoever, but businesses can't? Why is it wrong to refuse service to a black person, but it's (apparently) okay to refuse service to, say, short people, or red-haired people?
Again, I'm not trying to be a smartaleck, or to downplay LGBT concerns, with those examples; I'm also not saying it's okay to refuse service to someone because of their skin color, or because of the simple fact that they're gay. But consistency is a big thing with me, in every facet of my life, and I see it as inconsistent to say that certain types of "discrimination" are wrong and others aren't. It just doesn't make sense. And it doesn't make sense that consumers can make whatever decisions they want, for whatever reasons they want, but businesses can't. What is it about being a business, or owning a business, that "requires" one to not discriminate in certain narrowly defined situations? Private citizens can discriminate regarding whom they let into their homes; so if I'm the owner of a privately funded business, why can't I do business, or not do business, with whomever I choose, for whatever reason?
I find some of this interesting on a philosophical level. A very brilliant Con Law professor of mine argued that private universities should be able to admit whomever they want, so long as they didn’t accept government funds.
But, on a legal basis, I think the 14th Amendment, and precedent set by the SC related to the Commerce Clause, give Congress broad discretion. As we escape the “state of nature” in favor of the convenience, stability and safety of government, we give up absolute liberty. Figuring out the balancing test of individual liberty vs. the collective’s desire for security, etc. is a debate that will continue as long as we have a society.
Doesn't the Civil Rights Act of 1964 also apply here, meaning rockrollforyoursoul's scenario?
As a citizen, you can make choices about where you shop or who you like or who you let in your home. Those are choices not discrimination. Discrimination is prejudiced action against a person or things based on sex, race, color religion or sexual orientation. Choice is just making a decision between different options. Now a person can choose to discriminate, which is their right, but in today's society, that only makes you a scumbag.
But as a business, you can not discriminate who you service based on sex, race, religion, or sexual orientation. Doing so also violates the 14th Amendment and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Besides paying taxes, not participating in illegal activities, reporting earnings if you are a publicly traded company, and adhering to employee rights laws, a business can not violate the above mentioned laws.
Is that about the right answer to his question?