Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[jpotter33]

If the team trades for AD and we assume Kyrie isn't coming back, the next logical move in my mind is to trade for Conley.


If the #14 pick and the MEM pick are in the AD trade that makes things tricky.

I would try to move Hayward + 20 + 22 for Conley.  Hopefully something close to that would be sufficient.  I doubt Memphis is going to do much better than that.


The only hope for keeping AD is to be a contender right away, and you aren't contending for a title with Terry Rozier as your lead ballhandler.

Well this trade will leave a hole in your lineup for a shooter and you also no longer have a future (Young guys + Picks are gone) which cancels your flexibility of a team. The only way I’d trade Hayward + picks is for a substantial upgrade at either the PG or wing, Or for future picks from somewhere.

Mike Conley is a huge upgrade over Rozier.


Again, it would be absolutely insane to trade for Davis without having a plan to put a team around him that can contend next year.

You're not contending if the guy responsible for handling the ball and initiating the offense is Terry Rozier.


I anticipate that some would suggest that the initiators could be Hayward and Horford.  I think those guys are really nice to have as secondary playmakers.  In today's league unless your primary scorer / star is a ballhandler (e.g. LeBron, Giannis etc) I don't think you can get away with having your main guard be as mediocre and as prone to tunnel-vision as Terry.


I agree with you that trading for AD and then also trading picks and Hayward for Conley leaves the team with basically no more assets or future flexibility. 

If the team is trading for AD, I think that's kind of the idea.  You're going all-in.  You're saying, "We believe Davis, Horford, Conley, Brown can win a title next year, or come really close, and we believe it so strongly we don't care if it all blows up after one year." 

Makes no sense to go halfway if you're trying to trade for and keep AD.  You need to be willing to go for it immediately or else you may as well not bother.

Wouldn't it be better to keep Hayward and go after a mid-tier guard like Rubio or something?

Hayward+Rubio > Conley?

Yes, it definitely would. The increase in talent and play from Conley to a Rubio is not greater than even Hayward playing like last year, nevermind if Hayward comes back more like the player he used to be.

Adding Rubio and keeping Hayward is just much smarter business.

Agreed. While I love Conley, I think if Hayward gets back to close to where he was with Utah then a Rubio/Hayward pairing is much more beneficial than Conley on his own.

Only if Hayward wasn’t looking like he was going to get back anywhere near that level would I consider trading him for Conley.

[Sophomore]

If the team trades for AD and we assume Kyrie isn't coming back, the next logical move in my mind is to trade for Conley.


If the #14 pick and the MEM pick are in the AD trade that makes things tricky.

I would try to move Hayward + 20 + 22 for Conley.  Hopefully something close to that would be sufficient.  I doubt Memphis is going to do much better than that.


The only hope for keeping AD is to be a contender right away, and you aren't contending for a title with Terry Rozier as your lead ballhandler.

Well this trade will leave a hole in your lineup for a shooter and you also no longer have a future (Young guys + Picks are gone) which cancels your flexibility of a team. The only way I’d trade Hayward + picks is for a substantial upgrade at either the PG or wing, Or for future picks from somewhere.

Mike Conley is a huge upgrade over Rozier.


Again, it would be absolutely insane to trade for Davis without having a plan to put a team around him that can contend next year.

You're not contending if the guy responsible for handling the ball and initiating the offense is Terry Rozier.


I anticipate that some would suggest that the initiators could be Hayward and Horford.  I think those guys are really nice to have as secondary playmakers.  In today's league unless your primary scorer / star is a ballhandler (e.g. LeBron, Giannis etc) I don't think you can get away with having your main guard be as mediocre and as prone to tunnel-vision as Terry.


I agree with you that trading for AD and then also trading picks and Hayward for Conley leaves the team with basically no more assets or future flexibility. 

If the team is trading for AD, I think that's kind of the idea.  You're going all-in.  You're saying, "We believe Davis, Horford, Conley, Brown can win a title next year, or come really close, and we believe it so strongly we don't care if it all blows up after one year." 

Makes no sense to go halfway if you're trying to trade for and keep AD.  You need to be willing to go for it immediately or else you may as well not bother.

Wouldn't it be better to keep Hayward and go after a mid-tier guard like Rubio or something?

Hayward+Rubio > Conley?

Yes, it definitely would. The increase in talent and play from Conley to a Rubio is not greater than even Hayward playing like last year, nevermind if Hayward comes back more like the player he used to be.

Adding Rubio and keeping Hayward is just much smarter business.

I agree with this. Conley’s a nice player - he’s also 31 with an injury history. I don’t think adding him makes a contender, even with AD, and the future is mortgaged. Hayward, *if* he recovers, seems to give more upside and a better window.

[Phantom255x]

If Kyrie isn't coming back, then I'm not trading for Davis. That simple.

[footey]

If Kyrie isn't coming back, then I'm not trading for Davis. That simple.

I am. Simpler.

[Phantom255x]

If Kyrie isn't coming back, then I'm not trading for Davis. That simple.

I am. Simpler.

I'm still not. Simplest.

(Top that!  )

[apc]

If Kyrie isn't coming back, then I'm not trading for Davis. That simple.

I am. Simpler.

I'm still not. Simplest.

(Top that!  )

simplestest?

[PhoSita]

The increase in talent and play from Conley to a Rubio is not greater than even Hayward playing like last year, nevermind if Hayward comes back more like the player he used to be.

Adding Rubio and keeping Hayward is just much smarter business.

I vehemently disagree.


Trading all those assets for AD without getting somebody All-Star caliber who is going to initiate the offense is a recipe for Davis leaving in a year.


Ricky Rubio is fine.  Hayward will be better next year; I think he'll be a bit more than fine.

But neither is going to be good enough to really pressure a defense and create openings for Davis to attack. 


Heading into next year with a starting guard like Rubio, Beverley, Collison, or Rozier is setting the team up to fail before things have even started.  There's just not likely path to success in the modern NBA with a guy of that caliber as your initiator.


You're putting way too much on Hayward if you're expecting him to be a high teens / low 20s scorer next year who is driving, collapsing the defense, and creating opportunities for teammates.

I think he will be more efficient and more aggressive.  He'll look significantly better.  But he won't be that kind of guy.


It's kind of mystifying to me that people are already putting that on Hayward after we made that mistake this year.  He's a complementary player.

[johnnygreen]

I still have a hard time seeing Kyrie taking a second massive max salary type of hit in just 3 years. He already took one hit from leaving Cleveland. I like to see this whole charade as Kyrie just putting pressure on the Celtics to try to acquire another super star (Davis). Also, let’s not forget that Hayward will be a lot closer to his vintage self mentally. I can’t imagine Kyrie finding another team in a better situation than a line-up of Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Horford, and Davis.

One other thing to think about, some guys just want to go through the whole free agent experience and be wined and dined. Kyrie hasn’t gone through that before in the NBA.

[JohnP]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y2vcdmzf

Just get Jrue Holiday also

[td450]

The increase in talent and play from Conley to a Rubio is not greater than even Hayward playing like last year, nevermind if Hayward comes back more like the player he used to be.

Adding Rubio and keeping Hayward is just much smarter business.

I vehemently disagree.


Trading all those assets for AD without getting somebody All-Star caliber who is going to initiate the offense is a recipe for Davis leaving in a year.


Ricky Rubio is fine.  Hayward will be better next year; I think he'll be a bit more than fine.

But neither is going to be good enough to really pressure a defense and create openings for Davis to attack. 


Heading into next year with a starting guard like Rubio, Beverley, Collison, or Rozier is setting the team up to fail before things have even started.  There's just not likely path to success in the modern NBA with a guy of that caliber as your initiator.


You're putting way too much on Hayward if you're expecting him to be a high teens / low 20s scorer next year who is driving, collapsing the defense, and creating opportunities for teammates.

I think he will be more efficient and more aggressive.  He'll look significantly better.  But he won't be that kind of guy.


It's kind of mystifying to me that people are already putting that on Hayward after we made that mistake this year.  He's a complementary player.

I'm not sure what Hayward will be next year, but I do know that we have a fairly decent option at forward for if we were to trade Tatum and Hayward. We can resign Marcus Morris. He's not perfect, but he's pretty solid on both sides of the ball and he's a competitor who likes being here. If we were to keep Hayward and get AD, Morris probably isn't worth the money required to retain him.

We don't have a similar clear option for point guard. Conley is the right kind of player/leader to make Davis happy and provide a positive, competitive team culture. I'd be willing to bet on Conley/Brown/Morris/Horford and Davis. That is a tenacious, physical, very large starting five. Horford and Davis in particular seem fearsome, and the defense of that starting group could be off the charts.

[donawalt]

So it seems the experts are saying (a) Kyrie leaves (which seems to be more true than 60 days ago), and (b) Celtics are in the drivers seat for AD, but likely giving up Tatum, Smart, and probably two of the following - Yabusele, Ojeleye, Williams, and the #14 pick.

This seems insane to me. AD has shown in New Orleans he cannot carry a team without true stars around him. Does Horford stay if the Celts get AD, I think there is a good chance not....so we have a team with known starters of Hayward, Brown, and AD, with the rest coming from the FA pool or draft. Baynes (maybe), Theis, and probably Williams and Yabusele on the bench. They are locked from getting a max FA due too cap. This looks like a team that might hope to sneak into the playoffs with a 1st round exit. This team is arguably in the same talent level as the Pelicans, which AD did not turn into a big winner.

Is this team better than:

Hayward, Horford, Tatum, Brown, Smart, with a little stronger bench and maybe a #14 pick that can play some minutes this year? The cap holds the Celts back this year if Irving leaves, but this team looks a lot like the 2018 Eastern Conference finals with Tatum/Brown/Smart hopefully much better, Hayward added, two years form his injury.

Giving up the ranch for AD seems like a bad idea to me.

[Irish Stew]

My apologies if this has been mentioned, but it's Chris Mannix's belief that the Celtics will continue to pursue AD even if KI decides to leave. Take it for what it's worth.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mannix-celtics-appetite-anthony-davis-005640966.html

[nickagneta]

First, this will be merged into the Davis trade thread.

Second, not sure why Horford wouldn't want to play alongside a top 5 player in the league. If Davis is traded for before the draft, my expectations are Horford opts out and re-signs for 4 years at $65-75 million or so. Then signing a player like Rubio or Beverly makes a tremendous amount of sense if Kyrie leaves.

Rubio
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Davis

is an excellent starting five, especially if Hayward comes back strong like Paul George did the farther he got from his surgery.

[Diggles]

How much money is Kyrie leaving on the table if he signs somewhere else?   

I know the kids makes millions other ways, but purely his basketball paycheck will be more if he signs here right?  Than being said would a sign and trade be a win for him, us and some team trying to shed an expiring contract?   Like do the Nets or Knicks have guys  they want to move?   Then that helps them also sign KD to a max deal.... ?

[nickagneta]

I think if Kyrie signs here at 5 years he gets $190 million or so. If he signs elsewhere he gets at a maximum 4 years for around $140 million.