Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[smokeablount]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us

The extent of IT's hip injury was unknown at the time. If you remember CAVS came back to get additional compensation after the deal. When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

You can't condemn the Kyrie because we didn't know he would/might leave and then say "we didn't know" abput IT's hip injury.  DA knew and he pulled the trigger on a star, we just might lose him.

[MattyIce]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us

The extent of IT's hip injury was unknown at the time. If you remember CAVS came back to get additional compensation after the deal. When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

that is not true, i think i can safely say now that the extent was know at the latest in July but likely sooner. 

[smokeablount]

I think if we don't get AD and Kyrie walks, we become a treadmill team unless we nail the Memphis pick or get really lucky with another pick.  I see a core of Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart and Old Al as too swing/wing heavy and not good enough to contend for a title with how good the East has become, unless the Bucks, Raptors and Sixers all fall apart.

You're only a treadmill team if you're locked into that group.

If the team isn't contending next year they'll be back into asset acquisition mode. 

Danny Ainge isn't going to be content to stick with core group that is not good enough to contend.  But it may be necessary to focus on youth development over being competitive in the short term in order to line up a chance at the next big trade.

That could be 5 years waiting for an Eastern Conference semifinalist vs. 2-3 finals in 5 years in 5 years with Kyrie / Brown / Hayward / Horford / Davis if Kyrie resigns for 5 years and AD re-ups.  The latter is what I'd prefer of all outcomes and haven't ruled it out completely.

[smokeablount]

The way I see it, Tatum and Brown plus filler get traded for AD. Irving re-signs in Boston. Smart stays. Rozier goes.

So you have Irving, Smart , AD, Horford, Hayward, maybe Morris, Baynes....

If Hayward gets better, you have maybe a better team than this year. That's provided Stevens figures out how to coach them.

Smart has to go to make salary work. Brown, Tatum and Smart plus picks is an over pay and no one is bidding anything close to that. I think the Trade is Tatum, Smart, Yabu and 14th and Memphis pick. That's a potential star player with 1st team all defensive player and 2 good picks. I don't see anyone beating that.

I'd try hard to replace #14 with #20 or possibly RW3 but would probably cave if I had to.

[CelticsElite]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us

The extent of IT's hip injury was unknown at the time. If you remember CAVS came back to get additional compensation after the deal. When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

exactly

Also, kyrie specifically wanted to come to boston at the time

You can't condemn the Kyrie because we didn't know he would/might leave and then say "we didn't know" abput IT's hip injury.  DA knew and he pulled the trigger on a star, we just might lose him.

[BitterJim]

Ainge is probably going to overpay for AD because the ONLY reason he has hoarded all these assets was to get AD. If I know this then NOP know this. Also, the problem with hoarding assets is that your deal partners see your assets and they know that to outbid others you have to overpay otherwise your assets give you zero advantage maybe even a disadvantage because it makes the partner 'lose the trade' when they cannot pry away more of your assets. In other words, the reason an old billionaire gets the young model over a younger less wealthy guy is not just because he is a billionaire, its because he is willing to spend the billions on her.

So why didn't the Cavs do that? We had way more assets than IT/Crowder/Zizic/Nets pick

If a team wants to overplay their hands and try to get 2x from us what they could get from another team, they'll probably just be shooting themselves in the foot

you dont think that was an overpay for Kyrie at the time? That Nets pick was golden at the time. Cs gave up the Nets pick and IT after an NBA type season for a player with a bum knee on a two year deal. That was a massive overpay.

Massive overpay? No. If IT was healthy, then definitely, but with his hip injury and just one year left on his deal, his value was low. The main haul was the Nets pick, and a single future first rounder (plus filler) for a young All Star with 2 years left on his contract is actually a pretty good deal

So I would say it's no more of an overpay than I think Tatum/Smart/Memphis pick/1 or 2 of this year's picks would be. It's far from what we could have offered, and far less than a team would ask for if they were asking for far more from us than anyone else

The leverage that the Pelicans have is what other teams are willing to give (aka a bidding war). Us having more assets than anyone else doesn't give them any leverage over us

The extent of IT's hip injury was unknown at the time. If you remember CAVS came back to get additional compensation after the deal. When the deal was done everyone assumed IT  would be back to his old form.

that is not true, i think i can safely say now that the extent was know at the latest in July but likely sooner.

Exactly, it being unknown to the fans doesn't mean that it was unknown to the Celtics' medical staff and front office

[IDreamCeltics]

The way I see it, Tatum and Brown plus filler get traded for AD. Irving re-signs in Boston. Smart stays. Rozier goes.

So you have Irving, Smart , AD, Horford, Hayward, maybe Morris, Baynes....

If Hayward gets better, you have maybe a better team than this year. That's provided Stevens figures out how to coach them.

Smart has to go to make salary work. Brown, Tatum and Smart plus picks is an over pay and no one is bidding anything close to that. I think the Trade is Tatum, Smart, Yabu and 14th and Memphis pick. That's a potential star player with 1st team all defensive player and 2 good picks. I don't see anyone beating that.

I'd try hard to replace #14 with #20 or possibly RW3 but would probably cave if I had to.

Tough to argue what an overpay will be in the hysterical marketplace that's developing. 

For example, if the Lakers offer Kuzma, Ingram, Ball + whatever the Celtics would kind of have to offer up Smart/Tatum/Brown... And why wouldn't the Lakers offer that if they believe they can put Davis, Kyrie and Lebron together?

[RMO]

The way I see it, Tatum and Brown plus filler get traded for AD. Irving re-signs in Boston. Smart stays. Rozier goes.

So you have Irving, Smart , AD, Horford, Hayward, maybe Morris, Baynes....

If Hayward gets better, you have maybe a better team than this year. That's provided Stevens figures out how to coach them.

Smart has to go to make salary work. Brown, Tatum and Smart plus picks is an over pay and no one is bidding anything close to that. I think the Trade is Tatum, Smart, Yabu and 14th and Memphis pick. That's a potential star player with 1st team all defensive player and 2 good picks. I don't see anyone beating that.

I'd try hard to replace #14 with #20 or possibly RW3 but would probably cave if I had to.

Tough to argue what an overpay will be in the hysterical marketplace that's developing. 

For example, if the Lakers offer Kuzma, Ingram, Ball + whatever the Celtics would kind of have to offer up Smart/Tatum/Brown... And why wouldn't the Lakers offer that if they believe they can put Davis, Kyrie and Lebron together?

I wonder how much value Ingram has among GM's with that blood issue.  If he has to go on some kind of blood thinner to treat it his career is pretty much over. 

[footey]

If Kyrie is truly considering the Lakers, he in a way controls the destiny of Anthony Davis.  Does he tell Boston and LA "if you sign AD, I will come there too"?  Or does he tell Boston, "I'm not coming back, even if you get AD" ?  If he tells Boston that, LA should out bid Boston.

[GreenEnvy]

If Kyrie is truly considering the Lakers, he in a way controls the destiny of Anthony Davis.  Does he tell Boston and LA "if you sign AD, I will come there too"?  Or does he tell Boston, "I'm not coming back, even if you get AD" ?  If he tells Boston that, LA should out bid Boston.

I really can’t see him actually considering the Lakers. Wanted to be the man and step out from under LeBron’s shadow, only to run back?

The Clippers could be a legit contender for him, but they really don’t have the assets to pull off an AD trade without getting outbid. The appeal of playing for Doc is real, and maybe if they can fit Kawhi and Kyrie it can be possible, as Kyrie will get the limelight while Kawhi is the better player (unlike how it would be alongside KD who has his own ego issues).

I think it’s either Celtics or Knicks/Nets.

[RMO]

I still can't believe all this Kyrie to the lakers speculation came from one phone call he made to lebron just to say he now understands how difficult it is to be a leader and he regrets some of his actions before he experienced it first hand.

[CF033]

If Kyrie is truly considering the Lakers, he in a way controls the destiny of Anthony Davis.  Does he tell Boston and LA "if you sign AD, I will come there too"?  Or does he tell Boston, "I'm not coming back, even if you get AD" ?  If he tells Boston that, LA should out bid Boston.

I really can’t see him actually considering the Lakers. Wanted to be the man and step out from under LeBron’s shadow, only to run back?

The Clippers could be a legit contender for him, but they really don’t have the assets to pull off an AD trade without getting outbid. The appeal of playing for Doc is real, and maybe if they can fit Kawhi and Kyrie it can be possible, as Kyrie will get the limelight while Kawhi is the better player (unlike how it would be alongside KD who has his own ego issues).

I think it’s either Celtics or Knicks/Nets.

The question is whether Kyrie still wants to be the man after his experience in Boston. He was disgruntled for at least half the season this year. Maybe Lebron isn't looking so bad to him now.

But I agree that either NY or the Nets are his most likely destinations.

[GreenEnvy]

If Kyrie is truly considering the Lakers, he in a way controls the destiny of Anthony Davis.  Does he tell Boston and LA "if you sign AD, I will come there too"?  Or does he tell Boston, "I'm not coming back, even if you get AD" ?  If he tells Boston that, LA should out bid Boston.

I really can’t see him actually considering the Lakers. Wanted to be the man and step out from under LeBron’s shadow, only to run back?

The Clippers could be a legit contender for him, but they really don’t have the assets to pull off an AD trade without getting outbid. The appeal of playing for Doc is real, and maybe if they can fit Kawhi and Kyrie it can be possible, as Kyrie will get the limelight while Kawhi is the better player (unlike how it would be alongside KD who has his own ego issues).

I think it’s either Celtics or Knicks/Nets.

The question is whether Kyrie still wants to be the man after his experience in Boston. He was disgruntled for at least half the season this year. Maybe Lebron isn't looking so bad to him now.

But I agree that either NY or the Nets are his most likely destinations.

Be the man in Boston, or in general? That would be pretty weak to run back to LeBron with his tail between his legs. And he knows that. He will always be the sidekick if he retreats now.

I know he was supposedly disgruntled, but was it with Brad/Boston or the roster? I don’t recall their being an issue before his injury the prior season, so maybe it’s something that can be corrected.

He’s not a stupid guy. If the Boston media got to him, he will never survive the NY media.

[SparzWizard]

So uhm Lakers are favorites to land Anthony Davis?

https://sports.yahoo.com/lakers-the-favorite-to-land-anthony-davis-according-to-oddsmaker-141202208.html?src=rss

[PhoSita]

So uhm Lakers are favorites to land Anthony Davis?

https://sports.yahoo.com/lakers-the-favorite-to-land-anthony-davis-according-to-oddsmaker-141202208.html?src=rss

Dunno what the oddsmakers know, but the chances of the Lakers getting AD seem quite low given that Brandon Ingram's trade value is still murky, the Lakers are quite infamously in disarray as an organization, and New Orleans is still supposedly entirely opposed to making any sort of deal with Pelinka and co.