Poll

Should the Celtics trade for AD?

Yes.  (Tatum in the deal)
22 (45.8%)
No.   (Not worth giving up assets for a one year rental)
18 (37.5%)
Yes but only if Tatum isn't in the deal.
8 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Author Topic: Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)  (Read 144710 times)

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Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2018, 02:29:45 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Quote
' trade Irving, Horford, Rozier and Kings pick

This is the problem with it, your trading both Irving and Rozier and that would be not be wise.   We need one or the other.  As is usual the word, bad should precede most trades on this board.

Who is going to play point guard.

In the OPís deal, Celtics would get Jrue Holiday - a PG who averaged 20 points and  6 assists last  year. Iíd put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

Think the Pellies give up too much in that trade.
Yeah Jrue plays the point.

The trade for Pelicans is cap and future enhancing with the way contracts can lay out and good picks come from outside. In the same way C's got the chance to compete and grow without tanking thanks to the Nets picks, Pelicans get the same growth chance. Right now the Pelicans would be in serious trouble going into FA. This changes that.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2018, 02:59:05 PM »

Offline wiley

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going. 

Otherwise the Pels will look like the Knicks of the West with a couple more draft picks....


Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2018, 03:21:18 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2018, 04:13:10 PM »

Offline wiley

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

I think if Boogie isn't staying they'll hold on even tighter to AD until they're forced to trade.  With a guy like AD I don't think his value will drop much in a forced trade scenario because the number of teams competing will keep the value up as high as it should be.

Not saying your trade wouldn't work out in the long run, but it just would be a big gamble for the future and also a step back next year.

If he's going to demand a trade, then I think they'll wait and trade him at that juncture....there would be so many teams competing with offers...I think they could do better than the above deal, even if it's just a fully recovered Porzingis who is playing well and a Sac. pick that turns out to be #2, 3 or 4 in next year's draft...or other deals entirely.  I'm not sure the timing on AD's contract so I can't speak to that...My impression was they don't have to rush...and I think they can do better.....and if they do something this summer I think they can ask for a healthy superstar as well as draft picks...I think Porzingis needs to establish/re-establish himself as a big time, durable star before giving up AD for him. 

Giannis, Kyrie, Towns, plus draft picks and or other young potential stars. I don't think Rozier is there yet value wise and Horford's age plus contract are off putting. 

To get AD at this point would require a huge cost.  My own idea was Irving, Brown and Horford for AD and Holiday...which I can't say is worth it, but certainly yes if the Celtics think they know Irving's future plans don't include Boston.  Irving much closer to health than Porzingis.  Brown more appealing for next year's Pels than the future picks.  That's how scary I think the cost would be.  Danny might say no, though I kind of like it as I'm such a fan of Jrue Holiday, of course AD, and would enjoy watching Rozier continue in Boston...

Jrue, Rozier, Smart, Larkin
Hayward, Smart, Bird
Tatum, Hayward, Morris, Smart, Ojeleye
AD, Morris, Tatum, Theis, Ojeleye
Baynes, AD, Theis

free agent back up center

pick 27:  Spellman, Khyri Thomas, DiVenzo, Okogie

Danny probably says no to this deal...And Pelicans say no too unless Irving shocks everyone and says yes I want to be a Pelican for the next 5 years...

Let's revisit your trade after Porzingis shows signs of full recovery....

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2018, 04:22:26 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

I think if Boogie isn't staying they'll hold on even tighter to AD until they're forced to trade.  With a guy like AD I don't think his value will drop much in a forced trade scenario because the number of teams competing will keep the value up as high as it should be.

Not saying your trade wouldn't work out in the long run, but it just would be a big gamble for the future and also a step back next year.

If he's going to demand a trade, then I think they'll wait and trade him at that juncture....there would be so many teams competing with offers...I think they could do better than the above deal, even if it's just a fully recovered Porzingis who is playing well and a Sac. pick that turns out to be #2, 3 or 4 in next year's draft...or other deals entirely.  I'm not sure the timing on AD's contract so I can't speak to that...My impression was they don't have to rush...and I think they can do better.....and if they do something this summer I think they can ask for a healthy superstar as well as draft picks...I think Porzingis needs to establish/re-establish himself as a big time, durable star before giving up AD for him. 

Giannis, Kyrie, Towns, plus draft picks and or other young potential stars. I don't think Rozier is there yet value wise and Horford's age plus contract are off putting. 

To get AD at this point would require a huge cost.  My own idea was Irving, Brown and Horford for AD and Holiday...which I can't say is worth it, but certainly yes if the Celtics think they know Irving's future plans don't include Boston.  Irving much closer to health than Porzingis.  Brown more appealing for next year's Pels than the future picks.  That's how scary I think the cost would be.  Danny might say no, though I kind of like it as I'm such a fan of Jrue Holiday, of course AD, and would enjoy watching Rozier continue in Boston...

Jrue, Rozier, Smart, Larkin
Hayward, Smart, Bird
Tatum, Hayward, Morris, Smart, Ojeleye
AD, Morris, Tatum, Theis, Ojeleye
Baynes, AD, Theis

free agent back up center

pick 27:  Spellman, Khyri Thomas, DiVenzo, Okogie

Danny probably says no to this deal...And Pelicans say no too unless Irving shocks everyone and says yes I want to be a Pelican for the next 5 years...

Let's revisit your trade after Porzingis shows signs of full recovery....
I wouldn't site health risk as an issue since AD himself has an injury plagued history. But it's fair to say waiting on FA and medical reports before agreeing to this trade would be important to all three clubs. If Cousins remains you don't do the deal.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2018, 05:06:31 PM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Iíd put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

He shot worse from three than Rozier or Kyrie this last year at 33%.  Terry shot 38% and Kyrie shot 41%  and we need floor spreaders in our offense.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/roziete01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01.html

I think it might be easier to get Towns for Kyrie and some picks  and start Terry who I think has some built in cost control.   We get a Center, Play Al at PF, and move a wing to the sixth man role and add to our versatility.   

I don't think this trade nets us AD, he is a big star and they will want much more.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 05:13:54 PM by Celtics4ever »

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #66 on: June 09, 2018, 05:11:47 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Quote
Iíd put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

He shot worse from three than Rozier or Kyrie this last year at 33%.  Terry shot 38% and Kyrie shot 41%  and we need floor spreaders in our offense.

Heís not as good a 3-point shooter, itís true. But heís a good shot creator and midrange guy, with a reasonable if not great TS% of 57%.

A Celtics team with AD and Jrue surrounded by three 40% 3-point shooters (Hayward, Tatum, Brown) would probably be OK.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #67 on: June 09, 2018, 05:14:11 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Also - Holiday shot .337 last year, which rounds to 34.

That was an off year for him - heís 36% career. I predict heíd get some great looks if we ever built that lineup and expect him to be a guy you canít leave alone.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #68 on: June 09, 2018, 07:06:56 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

Turning AD into Porzingis, though. That's a tough, tough pill to swallow. AD sells tickets and jerseys. People come because they want to see what he will do. Zinger, at his best, just isn't on that level - and he's coming off an ACL tear - who knows what he will be? And at best, he won't play before December - the Pellies might miss the playoffs next year.

I'm interested in your thoughts re the contracts, because I see some downsides. KP is in line for a new deal after next year. So is TRoz, as we all know really well. If KP plays as he should, that's a max deal - less than AD's max, but still a max deal. Rozier could be what, mid-teens at least if he pans out?  If that happens you're a little better off on the contracts than you would be keeping AD and Jrue, but not enough to justify the talent hit.

Al Horford is another puzzle. If the Pellies hold onto him through his contract, then he is also on their team at the max - which really has them in a bind. They'll have about 80 million tied up in those three. For sure, if they keep Al they can't also keep Boogie, which means subtracting an all-star who is closer to the age of your core in favor of an older player who will fall off as KP comes on.

I'm not a capologist, so I'm probably missing something, but I don't see huge upside for the Pellies. I'd rather pay a little more for AD and take the talent bump.

The picks are a sweetener, and maybe they make the difference, although they do have uncertain value. I'd pencil in the Sacto pick at 5-12, most likely in the middle of that range. The Knicks pick is protected. Those picks might be nice pieces for your team, but you've lost your top-five player, the kind of guy you want to build around. Maybe this gives them a pretty good team, 5-10 best in the league, and maybe that's all they want. But I think they want a contender and I don't think this gets them there.

I don't know what other moves they can make to put good players around AD I - maybe it's a matter of waiting for bad contracts to leave their cap sheet.




« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:12:17 PM by Sophomore »

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #69 on: June 09, 2018, 08:32:04 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Quote
Iíd put his skill level between Rozier and Kyrie - above average starting PG, not quite an all star.

He shot worse from three than Rozier or Kyrie this last year at 33%.  Terry shot 38% and Kyrie shot 41%  and we need floor spreaders in our offense.

Heís not as good a 3-point shooter, itís true. But heís a good shot creator and midrange guy, with a reasonable if not great TS% of 57%.

A Celtics team with AD and Jrue surrounded by three 40% 3-point shooters (Hayward, Tatum, Brown) would probably be OK.
Yup Holiday is good mid range and a decent ball handler and passer. He doesnt forcing things and for BS' system is more suited than an iso player.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #70 on: June 09, 2018, 08:44:57 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I would give Brown, Rozier, the Sacramento 1st, the Clippers 1st, and Boston's 1st for AD.  So two players and 3 1st round picks.  But no they can't have Kyrie or Tatum.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2018, 05:13:07 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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It's too much of a step backwards for the Pelicans after their playoff run, which, with a healthy Boogie, could have gone deep with Golden State.

In other words, after this trade the Pelicans absolutely would have to worry about re-signing Rondo and Cousins.  When you lose AD and Jrue and then let Rondo go too....the team is just all the way gone.  A recovering Porzingis (when?), Horford and Rozier won't cut it...  The picks are nice, but this is a trade to make when on the absolute verge of losing Davis, not before that point. 

If they trade AD this summer they have to re-sign Boogie (even if they added Horford and Porzingis) and then be patient with his recovery....but in the meantime they need a true healthy star to keep the success going.
What if Boogie isn't staying? There is a  chance he goes to Lakers with PG. Also Pelicans have seen both sides to Rondo they may not want to resign him. If those two things happen its

Holiday, Moore, Hill, Mirotic, Davis
Vs
Rozier, Lee, Mirotic, Horford, Porzingis.

Both lineups fall of course to Rockets and Warriors. The second Pelican team at least has cap space and good picks coming up to improve the club. The first team is in no man's land with a super star who will probably ask for a trade his last year.

Turning AD into Porzingis, though. That's a tough, tough pill to swallow. AD sells tickets and jerseys. People come because they want to see what he will do. Zinger, at his best, just isn't on that level - and he's coming off an ACL tear - who knows what he will be? And at best, he won't play before December - the Pellies might miss the playoffs next year.

I'm interested in your thoughts re the contracts, because I see some downsides. KP is in line for a new deal after next year. So is TRoz, as we all know really well. If KP plays as he should, that's a max deal - less than AD's max, but still a max deal. Rozier could be what, mid-teens at least if he pans out?  If that happens you're a little better off on the contracts than you would be keeping AD and Jrue, but not enough to justify the talent hit.

Al Horford is another puzzle. If the Pellies hold onto him through his contract, then he is also on their team at the max - which really has them in a bind. They'll have about 80 million tied up in those three. For sure, if they keep Al they can't also keep Boogie, which means subtracting an all-star who is closer to the age of your core in favor of an older player who will fall off as KP comes on.

I'm not a capologist, so I'm probably missing something, but I don't see huge upside for the Pellies. I'd rather pay a little more for AD and take the talent bump.

The picks are a sweetener, and maybe they make the difference, although they do have uncertain value. I'd pencil in the Sacto pick at 5-12, most likely in the middle of that range. The Knicks pick is protected. Those picks might be nice pieces for your team, but you've lost your top-five player, the kind of guy you want to build around. Maybe this gives them a pretty good team, 5-10 best in the league, and maybe that's all they want. But I think they want a contender and I don't think this gets them there.

I don't know what other moves they can make to put good players around AD I - maybe it's a matter of waiting for bad contracts to leave their cap sheet.
If AL ops out they can sign two max contracts in 2019 with this trade. I'd think try to sign one max guy an two mid tier FAs works best. Say Klay, Harris and retain Mirotic. Now your at Rozier, Klay, Harris, Mirotic, and Porzingis. Or you use Kings pick and cap space to trade for a Max player. It gives them flexibility.

Again this is if Cousins is out. Not sure most got that part when I said FA for them may be bleak. I'd assume they know his health and will wait to see what happens in FA before dealing AD in this deal.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2018, 07:47:34 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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I will never understand this fascination with helping other teams do well with these trades. 

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2018, 08:51:35 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I will never understand this fascination with helping other teams do well with these trades.

Do you mean the OPís trade idea was focused on that? I donít think so. Holiday-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Davis is a championship team, period. The rest of the thread was about whether the trade was one you could imagine NOP actually doing.

I mean, if youíre asking - would I prefer that Davis force his way out of NO and we can get him for a bag of balls, then of course I would. Thatís not where things are though.

Re: My three team AD trade.
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2018, 08:52:46 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I will never understand this fascination with helping other teams do well with these trades.

Do you mean the OPís trade idea was focused on that? I donít think so. Holiday-Brown-Hayward-Tatum-Davis is a championship team, period. The rest of the thread was about whether the trade was one you could imagine NOP actually doing.
Yeah. This definitely helps us.

That team is frankly ridiculous
2019 CS Historical Draft Champions: Philadelphia 76ers
PG: Jason Kidd / Tiny Archibald / Fat Lever
SG: Paul Pierce / Sidney Moncrief
SF: Larry Bird / Mark Aguirre
PF: Karl Malone / Jerry Lucas / Andrei Kirilenko
C: Patrick Ewing / Bob Lanier

 

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