Author Topic: LeBlock Gate  (Read 2774 times)

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Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 12:21:49 PM »

Offline blink

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Why was it not reviewable? Iím pretty sure Iíve seen goaltending calls reviewed. No?

Apparently they can only review it if they called it a goaltend , not if they did not blow the whistle
Yeah they can only review calls that have a blown whistle or the clock stops immediately on the play (like a ball out of bounds). 

Again though, that should not be a goal tend and the rules should be changed.

You keep saying that it should not be a goal tend.  Who cares what the rules might be later when the NBA might or might not change them.  By the rules today, that was a goaltend, and it had an impact on the game.

The real change that needs to happen is some type of coach's challenge maybe 2 a game that requires the refs to review the video.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 12:26:13 PM »

Online Moranis

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Why was it not reviewable? Iím pretty sure Iíve seen goaltending calls reviewed. No?

Apparently they can only review it if they called it a goaltend , not if they did not blow the whistle
Yeah they can only review calls that have a blown whistle or the clock stops immediately on the play (like a ball out of bounds). 

Again though, that should not be a goal tend and the rules should be changed.

You keep saying that it should not be a goal tend.  Who cares what the rules might be later when the NBA might or might not change them.  By the rules today, that was a goaltend, and it had an impact on the game.

The real change that needs to happen is some type of coach's challenge maybe 2 a game that requires the refs to review the video.
I acknowledged under the rules it should have been called, but that should not be a goal tend.  The shot was still going up.  Under international rules that is in fact not a goal tend and that should be the rules in the NBA.   

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 12:31:42 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Didn't watch the game but listened to the Dunc'd on recap and they indicated that there was an out of bounds situation right before the block play, which didn't get reviewed, that should have been Cavs ball but Indiana got it.  Curious why there isn't any mention of that on here other than this thread is anti-Lebron focused. 


Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 12:32:08 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Even if the refs got the call right, the Pacers still lose.  It's like everyone's forgetting that LeBron went down and hit a 3 afterwards.  Sure the Pacers will run a slightly different defense (Sabonis and Oladipo would have probably been guarding the corner 3's instead of doubling Love in the post), but LeBron would still be guarded the same way at the top by Young.  So even if the refs got the goaltend right, LeBron still hits the 3 and the Pacers still lose.

You seem to be missing the key point that the pacers would be setting up their whole defense to guard the 3 so the worst that could happen would be a tie. When it was tied they actually preferred the three being shot cause it is a lower percentage and any shot beats them. You understand that right?

What did I write in my post?

Quote
Sure the Pacers will run a slightly different defense (Sabonis and Oladipo would have probably been guarding the corner 3's instead of doubling Love in the post)

Even so, if I really think about it, I don't know if the Pacers run a different D.  Whether you're up 2 or tied, you don't give up an easy 2 to send the game to overtime, you still guard everything to get the win.  The different D would probably only come if the Pacers are up 3, which they wouldn't be, unless we're arguing it was a goaltend + a foul.

It's not like Thad Young was laying off LeBron giving him the 3, he was guarding him tight for everything.  I see Thad Young guarding LeBron the same way whether tied, or up 2, or up 3 even (different D would come from Sabonis and Oladipo, not Young).  So how do you think the D would have been drawn up?  The real difference to me would be the mental pressure on LeBron, easier to take a shot knowing the worst case is overtime vs worst case being a loss.  Still think that if down 2, the Cavs run the same play and the Pacers D up LeBron the same way.

Your original post seemed to act like the score was not entirely critical and there was a reasonable chance that Cleveland runs the same play tied as they down two. I completely disagree with that.

To answer your question they try to run a lob or get a pass to someone going towards the rim. You have the chance of getting a tie that way in so many ways. You can get a foul on the drive (very unlikely on a 3 point shot), you have a chance to get a tipin (which is nearly impossible on a 3 point shot cause of the time of the ball in the air and the increased likelihood of a long rebound). Add that to the fact that the Pacers are going to be guarding the 3 point line with their coach saying no matter what no 3's and it is extremely unlikely the Cavs end up shooting a 3 in that situation. Young can even guard Lebron in a way that he is only getting the pass inside the 3 point line.  If there was more time, like 10 seconds, the Cavs would still have a chance to run some screens and get a 3, but I think it would have been extremely asinine to do it with 3.5 seconds instead of trying to tie the game with one of the best drivers of all time (Lebron). With the score tied, it is house money and Lebron can be a care free hero knowing if he misses it just goes to OT.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2018, 12:33:47 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Why was it not reviewable? Iím pretty sure Iíve seen goaltending calls reviewed. No?

Apparently they can only review it if they called it a goaltend , not if they did not blow the whistle
Yeah they can only review calls that have a blown whistle or the clock stops immediately on the play (like a ball out of bounds). 

Again though, that should not be a goal tend and the rules should be changed.

You keep saying that it should not be a goal tend.  Who cares what the rules might be later when the NBA might or might not change them.  By the rules today, that was a goaltend, and it had an impact on the game.

The real change that needs to happen is some type of coach's challenge maybe 2 a game that requires the refs to review the video.

Exactly. If we all wanted rules changed every time it would be something that benefitted our favorite player the league would be ridiculous. Strange argument to say the least.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 12:37:53 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Didn't watch the game but listened to the Dunc'd on recap and they indicated that there was an out of bounds situation right before the block play, which didn't get reviewed, that should have been Cavs ball but Indiana got it.  Curious why there isn't any mention of that on here other than this thread is anti-Lebron focused.

1) That play wasn't clear-cut at all and gets into the indisputable evidence to overturn area
2) There were 35 seconds left not 3
3) It wasn't even a basket
4) The goaltend was clearcut and black and white
5) The goaltend occured with 3 seconds left


You really don't get it Tazz? Your better than this.

Pretty basic, surprised you don't understand

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 12:42:00 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Why was it not reviewable? Iím pretty sure Iíve seen goaltending calls reviewed. No?

Apparently they can only review it if they called it a goaltend , not if they did not blow the whistle
Yeah they can only review calls that have a blown whistle or the clock stops immediately on the play (like a ball out of bounds). 

Again though, that should not be a goal tend and the rules should be changed.

You keep saying that it should not be a goal tend.  Who cares what the rules might be later when the NBA might or might not change them.  By the rules today, that was a goaltend, and it had an impact on the game.

The real change that needs to happen is some type of coach's challenge maybe 2 a game that requires the refs to review the video.

Exactly. If we all wanted rules changed every time it would be something that benefitted our favorite player the league would be ridiculous. Strange argument to say the least.

The goaltending rule is fine the way it is. Itís clear cut, easy for refs to interpret by saying that if the ball touches the glass first itís a goal tend. If you change that , it would leave too much of it up to interpretation and create a lot of variability of what is called a goal tend

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 12:42:00 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I feel like when it is that close they have to be able to review it in that kind of situation. I don't want to see a game decided like that. You also have to feel like if the game was in Indiana it would have been called

THiS ^ ....

Deciding a playoff game is critical .  Im not qualified to make the call,  it appeared like a clean play to me .  Under the circumstances tho ,   a play in the last two minutes that decides the game , needs to be reviewed , otherwise the game loses respect  .   The game was too close and hard played to let it be decided by a third party poor call.

I agree its hard for the refs to make the correct call, given angles and speed .  That alone , should be enough reason to let the refs review the call to get it right.   

I can live with the bad calls during first 46 minutes .   But the last two minutes calls should be challenged , its just a shame how mnay games are decided in the last two minutes by poor ref calls. Let a coach burn a critical timeout to challenge a game critical play the last two minutes .

The block looked good to,me ...but the opposing coach should be allowed to challenge the call to get things right.   Maybe each coach should get one FREE PLAY call , non foul related.
 CHALLENGE or review during the last two minutes . Or one during OT.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 01:01:00 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2018, 12:45:29 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I feel like when it is that close they have to be able to review it in that kind of situation. I don't want to see a game decided like that. You also have to feel like if the game was in Indiana it would have been called

THiS ^ ....

Deciding a playoff game is critical .  Im not qualified to make the call,  it appeared like a clean play to me .  Under the circumstances tho ,   a play in the last two minutes that decides the game , needs to be reviewed .   The game was too close and hard played to let it be decided by a third party poor call.

I agree its hard for the refs to make the correct call, given angles and speed .  That alone , should be enough reason to let the refs review the call to get it right.   

I can live with the bad calls during first 46 minutes .   But the last two minutes calls should be challenged , its just a shame how mnay games are decided in the last two minutes by poor ref calls.

The block looked good to,me ...but the opposing coach should be allowed to challenge the call to get things right.   Maybe each coach should get one FREE PLAY CHALLENGE  during the last two minutes .

Yes. I have totally come around to this challenge rule. I just want it right at the end of the day and not feel like star players or teams are getting calls because they are at home. If the out of bounds play earlier was challenged by Cleveland and they got the ball I would have also felt better about it.

If they called this a goaltend after a challenge and Cleveland somehow decided to still go for 3 and won, I would have been happy that everything was on the up and up. The way this game was decided just leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2018, 12:51:38 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Didn't watch the game but listened to the Dunc'd on recap and they indicated that there was an out of bounds situation right before the block play, which didn't get reviewed, that should have been Cavs ball but Indiana got it.  Curious why there isn't any mention of that on here other than this thread is anti-Lebron focused.

1) That play wasn't clear-cut at all and gets into the indisputable evidence to overturn area
2) There were 35 seconds left not 3
3) It wasn't even a basket
4) The goaltend was clearcut and black and white
5) The goaltend occured with 3 seconds left


You really don't get it Tazz? Your better than this.

Pretty basic, surprised you don't understand
Take a chill pill.  Did you miss the "didn't watch the game" part and just heard it mentioned on a podcast?  I'll watch the replay later today and be able to make my own assessment but am I not allowed to ask why others haven't mentioned it?   

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2018, 12:55:54 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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I feel like when it is that close they have to be able to review it in that kind of situation. I don't want to see a game decided like that. You also have to feel like if the game was in Indiana it would have been called

THiS ^ ....

Deciding a playoff game is critical .  Im not qualified to make the call,  it appeared like a clean play to me .  Under the circumstances tho ,   a play in the last two minutes that decides the game , needs to be reviewed .   The game was too close and hard played to let it be decided by a third party poor call.

I agree its hard for the refs to make the correct call, given angles and speed .  That alone , should be enough reason to let the refs review the call to get it right.   

I can live with the bad calls during first 46 minutes .   But the last two minutes calls should be challenged , its just a shame how mnay games are decided in the last two minutes by poor ref calls.

The block looked good to,me ...but the opposing coach should be allowed to challenge the call to get things right.   Maybe each coach should get one FREE PLAY CHALLENGE  during the last two minutes .

Yes. I have totally come around to this challenge rule. I just want it right at the end of the day and not feel like star players or teams are getting calls because they are at home. If the out of bounds play earlier was challenged by Cleveland and they got the ball I would have also felt better about it.

If they called this a goaltend after a challenge and Cleveland somehow decided to still go for 3 and won, I would have been happy that everything was on the up and up. The way this game was decided just leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth.

yes it does .   It would go along way to ensure professional integrity for the NBA to be certain as possible difficult calls are reviewed .  A game like this playoff ...deserves a respectable outcome , that both side can live with. 

The technology we have today allows a pretty good call to be confirmed by reviewing refs or officials.

The fans are getting better information on replays than the refs and its killing the game .   I'm not wanting the whole game reviewed .   Teams can play harder and make up for ref mistakes .  But , during the last two minutes , a bad call throws a game , the fans go home mad and this does not help the NBA reputation.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2018, 01:07:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Didn't watch the game but listened to the Dunc'd on recap and they indicated that there was an out of bounds situation right before the block play, which didn't get reviewed, that should have been Cavs ball but Indiana got it.  Curious why there isn't any mention of that on here other than this thread is anti-Lebron focused.

1) That play wasn't clear-cut at all and gets into the indisputable evidence to overturn area
2) There were 35 seconds left not 3
3) It wasn't even a basket
4) The goaltend was clearcut and black and white
5) The goaltend occured with 3 seconds left


You really don't get it Tazz? Your better than this.

Pretty basic, surprised you don't understand
Take a chill pill.  Did you miss the "didn't watch the game" part and just heard it mentioned on a podcast?  I'll watch the replay later today and be able to make my own assessment but am I not allowed to ask why others haven't mentioned it?   

Tazz if you are going to accuse everyone of being anti-lebron in a thread, you should at least know what you are talking about and have watched the plays in question. Whether or not you watched the game, you should understand people are going to talk more about a play that happens with 3 seconds left and involves a basket than a play with 33 seconds left that doesn't involve a basket. That is just common sense. Not sure why I need a chill pill for pointing that out and I think everyone would agree with me that a play with seconds left and a score is more controversial than a non-score 35 seconds earlier. This would be the case regardless of whether Lebron was involved or it was greg ostertag. Its a fair thing to call you out on.

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2018, 01:11:07 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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It was definitely a goal tend but I think they also missed a call just before that play when they called the ball out of bounds on Lebron.  The ball appeared to be knocked out of his hands, hit the baseline, hit LBJ and went out of bounds after that.  Two missed calls IMO.  Sometimes they even out in the end. 

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2018, 01:59:07 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Even if the refs got the call right, the Pacers still lose.  It's like everyone's forgetting that LeBron went down and hit a 3 afterwards.  Sure the Pacers will run a slightly different defense (Sabonis and Oladipo would have probably been guarding the corner 3's instead of doubling Love in the post), but LeBron would still be guarded the same way at the top by Young.  So even if the refs got the goaltend right, LeBron still hits the 3 and the Pacers still lose.

A lot more pressure taking a shot down two vs tie game.

Maybe he still bangs a three. Maybe they score two and send it to overtime, or maybe they miss.

Who knows.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: LeBlock Gate
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 02:01:56 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Didn't watch the game but listened to the Dunc'd on recap and they indicated that there was an out of bounds situation right before the block play, which didn't get reviewed, that should have been Cavs ball but Indiana got it.  Curious why there isn't any mention of that on here other than this thread is anti-Lebron focused.

1) That play wasn't clear-cut at all and gets into the indisputable evidence to overturn area
2) There were 35 seconds left not 3
3) It wasn't even a basket
4) The goaltend was clearcut and black and white
5) The goaltend occured with 3 seconds left


You really don't get it Tazz? Your better than this.

Pretty basic, surprised you don't understand
Take a chill pill.  Did you miss the "didn't watch the game" part and just heard it mentioned on a podcast?  I'll watch the replay later today and be able to make my own assessment but am I not allowed to ask why others haven't mentioned it?   

Tazz if you are going to accuse everyone of being anti-lebron in a thread, you should at least know what you are talking about and have watched the plays in question. Whether or not you watched the game, you should understand people are going to talk more about a play that happens with 3 seconds left and involves a basket than a play with 33 seconds left that doesn't involve a basket. That is just common sense. Not sure why I need a chill pill for pointing that out and I think everyone would agree with me that a play with seconds left and a score is more controversial than a non-score 35 seconds earlier. This would be the case regardless of whether Lebron was involved or it was greg ostertag. Its a fair thing to call you out on.

I feel like Tazz asked a perfectly valid and innocent question, that for some reason, you seemed to take offense to. I was watching the Bruins game, so I was also completely unaware of that out of bounds play. I assume you must also think that the non-call shot clock violation in game 5 of the Celtics-Bucks series had no effect at the end of the game, simply because it didn't occur with only 3 seconds left.

 

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