Thomas " I may never speak to Danny Again"

[Moranis]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted. 

[jambr380]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

I don't think any of us will ever know exactly what went down with the trade negotiations. Indy hopped on sub-par pretty quickly. I understand that the deal wasn't 'finalized' until after Hayward agreed to sign with us, but it was announced into 4 days prior. For some reason, Indy felt like they needed to take the deal with OKC in the moment rather than telling them to wait four days.

In the end, I still don't regret the deal - Crowder, AB, Smart, and likely Rozier (along with picks) would have been required to get the deal done - unless you wanted to deal Tatum or Brown instead of Smart/Rozier. I am satisfied not having two questionable expiring contracts on the horizon while keeping Rozier, Smart, acquiring Morris, and solidifying our PG for the future with Kyrie.

And this is all assuming that DA wanted both Hayward and George, which I am certainly not confident in. Frankly, I think DA makes the same deal he made with Cleveland if IT was healthy - minus the 2nd rounder (people assuming we never would have to include the BKN pick just aren't thinking the deal through - that was by far the most important piece).

[gift]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

So what was Indy's excuse for not taking any of the other better trades that would have been out there though? I just don't buy the narrative that all Indy needed was a hug and a promise. I think there was more spite involved than anyone would admit.

They didn't want to send Paul George somewhere he specifically wanted to go (this was actually reported), and they wanted to send him to a place they thought he had a good chance of leaving at the end of the year.

[Msimonetta2]

Not sure they were going to commit to long term salaries of Horford, Thomas, George,  and Hayward.  Pretty sure that tax bill was going to be untenable.

[Big333223]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?

[Moranis]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?

There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated. 

[Moranis]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

I don't think any of us will ever know exactly what went down with the trade negotiations. Indy hopped on sub-par pretty quickly. I understand that the deal wasn't 'finalized' until after Hayward agreed to sign with us, but it was announced into 4 days prior. For some reason, Indy felt like they needed to take the deal with OKC in the moment rather than telling them to wait four days.

In the end, I still don't regret the deal - Crowder, AB, Smart, and likely Rozier (along with picks) would have been required to get the deal done - unless you wanted to deal Tatum or Brown instead of Smart/Rozier. I am satisfied not having two questionable expiring contracts on the horizon while keeping Rozier, Smart, acquiring Morris, and solidifying our PG for the future with Kyrie.

And this is all assuming that DA wanted both Hayward and George, which I am certainly not confident in. Frankly, I think DA makes the same deal he made with Cleveland if IT was healthy - minus the 2nd rounder (people assuming we never would have to include the BKN pick just aren't thinking the deal through - that was by far the most important piece).

Obviously if Danny didn't want both George and Hayward, then it would make perfect sense why he would say let me see what happens in free agency before committing to the trade.  But it also makes sense that Indy might not want to wait and just wanted to be done with George.  They also might have had concerns that OKC would have moved on and traded Oladipo or Sabonis in the interim, thus making it a lose lose situation for themselves.  However, if Danny would have been happy to acquire George after signing Hayward, then Danny completely and utterly blew that negotiation. 

[Msimonetta2]

Point being for those that wanted the George trade where you were going to be giving up real assets.  Which 3 out of 4 (Thomas, Hayward, Horford, George) were you going to move forward with after this year?

[Big333223]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?

There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated.

I remember this being the speculation but I don't actually remember reading it anywhere.

Actually, I have a memory of listening to a podcast (either Simmons or Lowe) and someone saying that Indiana never even gave Boston a chance to make an offer. But I can't remember when I heard it and I can't find it googling so maybe I made it up.

[Moranis]

Hayward actually agreed before the Pacers deal was made official. Indy was willing to wait on the trade. They weren't willing to wait on a commitment from Danny. They wanted a firm yes, and Danny would only give a maybe.

Not trying to jump in an argument here, but I thought George was traded on 6/30, while Hayward definitely agreed to sign with the Cs on 7/4. Are you saying that Indy could have pulled out of the deal they already agreed to?

I don't disagree with you that there was likely someway, somehow we could have made outgoing salaries work in a George deal and also sign Hayward, but it would have been pretty destructive to our team. Also, having IT injured on an expiring deal and George who seemed lukewarm about going anywhere but LA on an expiring deal could have really blown up in our faces.

The trade wasn't finalized until after the moratorium ended.  All Danny had to say was, we have a deal no matter what happens in free agency, but just let me use my cap space first.  Danny however said let me see what happens in free agency and then we can work something out.  Danny just wouldn't give a commitment that the trade would happen no matter what, which is all Indiana wanted.

Is this factual? Is there any evidence that this is what happened or is this just the thing that people have come to believe probably happened?

There were a number of articles on it where that was certainly implied if not outright stated.

I remember this being the speculation but I don't actually remember reading it anywhere.

Actually, I have a memory of listening to a podcast (either Simmons or Lowe) and someone saying that Indiana never even gave Boston a chance to make an offer. But I can't remember when I heard it and I can't find it googling so maybe I made it up.

Woj said (on twitter if not an actual article) that the Pacers wanted Smart, Crowder, and multiple picks but that Boston didn't want to close the deal before signing Hayward.  In other words, all Boston had to do was commit to the trade, which wouldn't have been finalized until after the moratorium ended, but that Boston wasn't willing to do that.  A later or concurrent report stated that none of those multiple picks were the BKN or LAL picks. 

[Dino Pitino]

Given the new and improved Smart, that deal for one season of George would've been an epic overpay.

[Roy H.]

Given the new and improved Smart, that deal for one season of George would've been an epic overpay.

George is already talking about resigning in OKC. What makes you think it would have only been for one season?

[Msimonetta2]

It would be only one season with George because the Celtics would not pay for four max players, imho.  In fact I would go as far to say that it was always going to be Hayward OR George never both. 

[Diggles]

If you want to run with the big dawgs, don't p--- like a puppy!

[Moranis]

It would be only one season with George because the Celtics would not pay for four max players, imho.  In fact I would go as far to say that it was always going to be Hayward OR George never both.

If Boston was only going to have 3 max contracts and had to decide between Thomas and George, Boston would have chosen George.  He is quite simply better than Thomas, fits better than Thomas, and isn't a long term injury risk (unless he gets hurt this season).  Thomas was always going to be the one to go, which is why Boston still might have moved him for Irving in some other form of that trade even with George and Hayward (and not Smart, Crowder, or Bradley).