2017- The Year Superstars got traded and the plan changed

[Roy H.]

Yeah, it's hard to believe that this is the same guy who traded the #5 pick for an old Ray Allen.

[celticinorlando]

Danny does a great job collecting picks. He struggles doing anything with them. He has had some very bad drafts and has not been able to assemble the assets for a legit superstar for whatever reason.

I do think he values the picks a bit more than he should. He did a great job getting boston from an old team to where they are now...but is struggling getting them to the next step. Gotta hope he hit on Zizic, Brown, Yabu and Tatum..plus the guys next year from the lottery

[RJ87]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

Stop that.

Demarcus Cousins is a 3x All-Star and widely considered the best big man in the league.

Jimmy Butler is a 3x All-Star, 3x All-Defense, All-NBA player.

Paul George is a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defense, 3x All-NBA player.

All of them are 27 or under. If these aren't the guys you're trying to acquire with assets, then what are you trying to do? 

And let's just get this out of the way: ANTHONY DAVIS HAS 4 YEARS LEFT ON HIS DEAL, HE IS NOT COMING. New Orleans traded for Cousins and just gave Holiday a big deal. They're gonna try to build with that team. He is not Ainge's unicorn.

There are about a dozen guys in the league with the kind of credentials you are citing. They are great players but we've gotten to the top of the league's second tier without them, and in a couple of years, we will have drafted 5 top 6 draft picks, none of whom start for us yet.

These players could help us compete against Cleveland and GS, but only if the deal is a net positive. They don't match up favorably against LeBron, Kawhi Leonard or Durant. They would need superior support guys to win. Clearing out AB and Crowder to get them isn't enough of an improvement.

The Celtics passed on Cousins for character issues. Let's see how valuable he is. If he really is what you think he is, the Pelicans should be a playoff team. I doubt they will be.

It's pretty clear Boston offered much more for Paul George than OKC did, but they didn't want to wait. As someone who was rooting against that deal, I'm relieved. It was a problematic deal.

Time will tell if passing on Butler was a good idea. Ainge clearly prefers getting Hayward as a free agent. Trading for Butler would have screwed that up.

If we don't get Hayward, I think its fair to say Ainge screwed up. But if we get him, that's a better plan than any of these guys coming via trade.

5 or 6 players that haven't been drafted yet? That's our hope? So we basically have the aspirations of a lottery team. Got it. Rusty pretty much means you can't afford any busts and you better hope Danny Ainge knocks at least 2 of those picks out of the park.

As far as Demarcus, everyone touts our culture and leadership. At some point, you may have to take a gamble and trust that culture and leadership to withstand a little shake up if it checks off literally every weakness your team has. Coach Stevens might have to toughen up and manage a difficult personality like great coaches have had to over the years.

And Indy shouldn't have had to wait. We could've come to an agreement and executed the deal on July 7th - like they're doing with OKC.

Passing on Jimmy - who Ainge admitted he hadn't held talks on in awhile - was a mistake.

If we miss out on Hayward, this offseason is a failure.

[td450]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

Stop that.

Demarcus Cousins is a 3x All-Star and widely considered the best big man in the league.

Jimmy Butler is a 3x All-Star, 3x All-Defense, All-NBA player.

Paul George is a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defense, 3x All-NBA player.

All of them are 27 or under. If these aren't the guys you're trying to acquire with assets, then what are you trying to do? 

And let's just get this out of the way: ANTHONY DAVIS HAS 4 YEARS LEFT ON HIS DEAL, HE IS NOT COMING. New Orleans traded for Cousins and just gave Holiday a big deal. They're gonna try to build with that team. He is not Ainge's unicorn.

There are about a dozen guys in the league with the kind of credentials you are citing. They are great players but we've gotten to the top of the league's second tier without them, and in a couple of years, we will have drafted 5 top 6 draft picks, none of whom start for us yet.

These players could help us compete against Cleveland and GS, but only if the deal is a net positive. They don't match up favorably against LeBron, Kawhi Leonard or Durant. They would need superior support guys to win. Clearing out AB and Crowder to get them isn't enough of an improvement.

The Celtics passed on Cousins for character issues. Let's see how valuable he is. If he really is what you think he is, the Pelicans should be a playoff team. I doubt they will be.

It's pretty clear Boston offered much more for Paul George than OKC did, but they didn't want to wait. As someone who was rooting against that deal, I'm relieved. It was a problematic deal.

Time will tell if passing on Butler was a good idea. Ainge clearly prefers getting Hayward as a free agent. Trading for Butler would have screwed that up.

If we don't get Hayward, I think its fair to say Ainge screwed up. But if we get him, that's a better plan than any of these guys coming via trade.

5 or 6 players that haven't been drafted yet? That's our hope? So we basically have the aspirations of a lottery team. Got it. Rusty pretty much means you can't afford any busts and you better hope Danny Ainge knocks at least 2 of those picks out of the park.

As far as Demarcus, everyone touts our culture and leadership. At some point, you may have to take a gamble and trust that culture and leadership to withstand a little shake up if it checks off literally every weakness your team has. Coach Stevens might have to toughen up and manage a difficult personality like great coaches have had to over the years.

And Indy shouldn't have had to wait. We could've come to an agreement and executed the deal on July 7th - like they're doing with OKC.

Passing on Jimmy - who Ainge admitted he hadn't held talks on in awhile - was a mistake.

If we miss out on Hayward, this offseason is a failure.

That's 5 top 6 players. At least two are #3 choices, with two more to come. We can afford a few busts, as long as we get a couple of great players.

We went to the ECF. We still may be adding a top 20 player in Hayward, for almost nothing. And have a pipeline of 4 consecutive top lottery picks. I think we'll be OK.

[tankcity!]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

Stop that.

Demarcus Cousins is a 3x All-Star and widely considered the best big man in the league.

Jimmy Butler is a 3x All-Star, 3x All-Defense, All-NBA player.

Paul George is a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defense, 3x All-NBA player.

All of them are 27 or under. If these aren't the guys you're trying to acquire with assets, then what are you trying to do? 

And let's just this out of the way: ANTHONY DAVIS HAS 4 YEARS LEFT ON HIS DEAL, HE IS NOT COMING. New Orleans traded for Cousins and just gave Holiday a big deal. They're gonna try to build with that team. He is not Ainge's unicorn.

I'm with TD450. What does superstar mean if we're handing that name out to all the top 20 players? This is a game of semantics, but I think superstar should be reserved for top 5 or top 3 players.

In my opinion, PG13 and Cousins are barely top 10, and Butler is top 20.

You wouldn't be saying this if we had traded for those players lol.

[action781]

"The" plan hasn't changed.

"Your" plan has changed.

The plan all along after the Brooklyn trade in 2013 was to begin building through the draft, get some extra draft assets from Brooklyn and LAC in 2015-2018 and then if we draft right and develop them properly, we can be back in contention by 2020-ish.

That plan hasn't changed, it is the one Danny is still following.  The only plan that has changed is the plan celticsbloggers have made up in their own mind which was never a real plan to begin with.

[TheSundanceKid]

Butler or George only worked in a world where we already have Hayward. Unless we were willing to give up Brown or Tatum to get them then it had to happen after signing Hayward.

Okc and Indy won't complete the trade until July 7th, the day after free agents can sign. We could've come to a similar arrangement.

Ah true. I do find that trade a little confusing though. They must have wanted George out of the conference. Even without using our premium assets it's an easy offer to beat.

The one thing that I think is important to remember that we shouldn't start bidding against ourselves. Would you trade Crowder and a Brooklyn pick for Oladipo and Sabonis?

[MVPPierceNoJoke]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

I agree completely, none of these players have a Garnett impact. Save the assets for later and see how they pan out unless they can actually get a championship level centerpiece.

[TheSundanceKid]

Danny does a great job collecting picks. He struggles doing anything with them. He has had some very bad drafts and has not been able to assemble the assets for a legit superstar for whatever reason.

I do think he values the picks a bit more than he should. He did a great job getting boston from an old team to where they are now...but is struggling getting them to the next step. Gotta hope he hit on Zizic, Brown, Yabu and Tatum..plus the guys next year from the lottery

Since the Brooklyn trade what bad drafts has Ainge had?

He passed on GA for KO which in hindsight was poor but at the time was fine.
Smart was the bpa, young was a good pick that just didn't pan out. Best available there was probably Hood.
Rozier has turned out well, lost in the logjam a bit but definitely ready to contribute.
Brown great pick
Trade back to 3 and Tatum = great draft in my eyes but I can understand the frustration if Fultz was your man

[Surferdad]

Danny does a great job collecting picks. He struggles doing anything with them. He has had some very bad drafts and has not been able to assemble the assets for a legit superstar for whatever reason.

I do think he values the picks a bit more than he should. He did a great job getting boston from an old team to where they are now...but is struggling getting them to the next step. Gotta hope he hit on Zizic, Brown, Yabu and Tatum..plus the guys next year from the lottery

Since the Brooklyn trade what bad drafts has Ainge had?

He passed on GA for KO which in hindsight was poor but at the time was fine.
Smart was the bpa, young was a good pick that just didn't pan out. Best available there was probably Hood.
Rozier has turned out well, lost in the logjam a bit but definitely ready to contribute.
Brown great pick
Trade back to 3 and Tatum = great draft in my eyes but I can understand the frustration if Fultz was your man

Yup, and some folks have short memories.  Pre-Big-3, he drafted the following players in the teens and twenties:  Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo, Delonte West, Ryan Gomes, Tony Allen to name a few.  All were good players for where they were drafted and had decent NBA careers.  Some of them also made the KG trade possible.  That's not "struggles doing anything with them" by any means.

[mctyson]

Don't forget Demarcus Cousins.

3 stars traded in half a season.

None of these players are within a mile of what KG was as a player.  That is who Danny is looking for.

[mctyson]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

Stop that.

Demarcus Cousins is a 3x All-Star and widely considered the best big man in the league.

Jimmy Butler is a 3x All-Star, 3x All-Defense, All-NBA player.

Paul George is a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defense, 3x All-NBA player.

All of them are 27 or under. If these aren't the guys you're trying to acquire with assets, then what are you trying to do? 

And let's just get this out of the way: ANTHONY DAVIS HAS 4 YEARS LEFT ON HIS DEAL, HE IS NOT COMING. New Orleans traded for Cousins and just gave Holiday a big deal. They're gonna try to build with that team. He is not Ainge's unicorn.

Nobody considers DMC the best big man in the league.

[mctyson]

Paul George did not make an all-NBA team
Jimmy Butler made 3rd team all-NBA
DeMarcus Cousins did not make an all-NBA team

They are stars, not superstars

Stop that.

Demarcus Cousins is a 3x All-Star and widely considered the best big man in the league.

Jimmy Butler is a 3x All-Star, 3x All-Defense, All-NBA player.

Paul George is a 4x All-Star, 4x All-Defense, 3x All-NBA player.

All of them are 27 or under. If these aren't the guys you're trying to acquire with assets, then what are you trying to do? 

And let's just get this out of the way: ANTHONY DAVIS HAS 4 YEARS LEFT ON HIS DEAL, HE IS NOT COMING. New Orleans traded for Cousins and just gave Holiday a big deal. They're gonna try to build with that team. He is not Ainge's unicorn.

There are about a dozen guys in the league with the kind of credentials you are citing. They are great players but we've gotten to the top of the league's second tier without them, and in a couple of years, we will have drafted 5 top 6 draft picks, none of whom start for us yet.

These players could help us compete against Cleveland and GS, but only if the deal is a net positive. They don't match up favorably against LeBron, Kawhi Leonard or Durant. They would need superior support guys to win. Clearing out AB and Crowder to get them isn't enough of an improvement.

The Celtics passed on Cousins for character issues. Let's see how valuable he is. If he really is what you think he is, the Pelicans should be a playoff team. I doubt they will be.

It's pretty clear Boston offered much more for Paul George than OKC did, but they didn't want to wait. As someone who was rooting against that deal, I'm relieved. It was a problematic deal.

Time will tell if passing on Butler was a good idea. Ainge clearly prefers getting Hayward as a free agent. Trading for Butler would have screwed that up.

If we don't get Hayward, I think its fair to say Ainge screwed up. But if we get him, that's a better plan than any of these guys coming via trade.

I don't think 1 year of Paul George makes a difference to Hayward - he is either coming here to play for Brad and play with IT or he is not.

If find Butler and Hayward to be similar players, so the Cs must have some confidence they can haul in Hayward.

[mctyson]

"The" plan hasn't changed.

"Your" plan has changed.

The plan all along after the Brooklyn trade in 2013 was to begin building through the draft, get some extra draft assets from Brooklyn and LAC in 2015-2018 and then if we draft right and develop them properly, we can be back in contention by 2020-ish.

That plan hasn't changed, it is the one Danny is still following.  The only plan that has changed is the plan celticsbloggers have made up in their own mind which was never a real plan to begin with.

Exactly.  People on this blog consume way too much 98.5 and NBA twitter that links the Celtics to every and all trades with of course all of them being "the big opportunity" that Ainge has waited for.

Danny gets that there are 4 to 6 real difference makers in the league right now, or at any given time. He also understands that Jimmy Butler and Paul George are not one of them.

[PhoSita]

It's really hard to argue against this.

Before last season, we could say we were waiting on Demarcus Cousins, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, even Russell Westbrook.


Now, it's all down to Gordon Hayward.  As you say, he's not even a top 10 player. 


So I think you're right to question -- what is the plan here, exactly? 


The answer at this point seems to be that the Celts want to have a team that will be an above average playoff team for a long time, and they aren't willing to give up their future assets for a short term boost that may not get them past the top team anyway. 

After all, they were willing to chase Durant.


But give up a big cache of future assets for somebody who is less than an MVP type guy?  That doesn't seem to be something Ainge is interested in doing.