C's didnt like Explosiveness of Fultz, C'S and Phi agree not much difference 1-3

[hpantazo]

Maybe the lack of explosiveness was due to his knee injury though?

Possibly another reason not to take him though.  This is what I wrote in one of the threads yesterday:

Not sure which of the 100 Fultz trade threads to post in, but here goes...

I remember someone on this blog speculated years ago that Danny doesn't like to draft guys who have knee problems, with the examples being:

The C's chose to pass on acquiring Brandon Roy in 2006, instead trading #7 pick (Foye) and LaFrentz for Telfair and Ratliff, and then having the #7 pick (Foye) they just traded away being immediately traded for Brandon Roy.

As well as the speculation (though highly disputed) that Danny would have been one of the few GMs to draft Durant over Oden in '07.

This speculation has alse been supported by Austin Ainge:

According to Austin Ainge, the son of Celtics president Danny Ainge and team director of player personnel, the Celtics’ medical staff told the team not to draft Greg Oden or Brandon Roy. Both players have had knee problems that shortened/ruined their careers. Oden has only played in 105 career games since being drafted in 2007, while Roy had five really good seasons, missed a year, attempted a comeback, and then retired for good.

And now we have the C's not drafting Fultz who also has had knee problems.

Maybe this trade is partially driven by concern for Fultz's knee?

Yeah, Scal alluded to a possible medical concern from the Celtics staff as a potential reason for passing on him too.

[Casperian]

According to a high-level front-office source, the reason the Sixers “only” paid a price of two first-round picks is because both teams see little separation between no. 1 and no. 3. It’s more about preference of player — Philly loves Markelle Fultz’s talent and his fit with its developing roster. The timing of the deal and the protections on the pick suggests both teams were negotiating on common grounds. 16 mins ago – via The Ringer

That's not a reason, that's an excuse.

"Negotiating on common ground" my shiny behind.

[GreenCoffeeBean]

David Aldridge just told me Fultz lost some explosiveness due to the way he stood next to Danny Ainge at that burger joint.

[playdream]

Sixers could buy into this

[cousytoheinsohn]

Michael Eaves: Received some surprising info on Markelle Fultz and the #Celtics today. Some within the organization were not impressed with his workout. The most glaring critique was that he was not as explosive as they expected/hoped. Afterwards, team felt as if he was NOT the best prospect. 16 mins ago – via Twitter

According to a high-level front-office source, the reason the Sixers “only” paid a price of two first-round picks is because both teams see little separation between no. 1 and no. 3. It’s more about preference of player — Philly loves Markelle Fultz’s talent and his fit with its developing roster. The timing of the deal and the protections on the pick suggests both teams were negotiating on common grounds. 16 mins ago – via The Ringer

Great snag and share, RH. Many kudos and much obliged.

I think Brad is driving this whole thing far more than we might imagine or are discussing, and in terms of accurate player assessment, thankfully so because: Trader Danny is far superior to Drafter Danny, as we all are well aware.

And, I don't think this is necessarily a prelude to a bigger deal or more "fireworks," but more likely just another step in Brad's process of building the perfect beast and consummate iteration of the "Butler Celtics," i.e, refining "the system" by getting the types of players he wants and can work well within it, like cogs in the lean machine of his dreams.

To supplement whatever the haul is in the draft, I expect Brad will use every bit of influence he has personally to get Hayward in green this fall. As several people have mentioned, this is also an indication of how fundamentally satisfied he is with the core group as presently constituted and its considerable potential for development/improvement moving forward.

It's truly fascinating to watch how the guy works, how we functions in tandem with Danny, and how this "process" will all play out.

The thought that keeps nagging at me, though, is that the vaunted system was good enough to reach the [NCAA] finals twice consecutively but lose both times, once narrowly, because it was fatefully lacking in stars other than Hayward who, for all his heroics, was more a star in the making at that point.

But, who knows, maybe this time, like Jimmie Chitwood in Hoosiers ["I'll make it, Coach"], Hayward makes the final shot instead of just missing the half-court fling at the buzzer that would have given the upstart Bulldogs the win over mighty Duke and thus the plucky underdog that Brad and Danny are building is champion of the world yet again, for the 18th time.

And counting.

[Who]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

[jpotter33]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

I've seen several different sites put Beal as his pro player comparison. I never liked the comparison before, but I can see it if he plays more 2 than 1.

[snively]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

I've seen several different sites put Beal as his pro player comparison. I never liked the comparison before, but I can see it if he plays more 2 than 1.

Curry, Nash, D-Will - none of these guys were/are particularly explosive and yet they during their times dominated repeatedly place top 3 in PG rankings.

Size, ball-handling skill and shooting ability have proven to be as or more useful than explosive quickness in operating PNR. Fultz is downright slithery with the ball. Very hard for guards to pressure him with his handle too.

[Chris22]

So THAT'S why they only went to B. Good! Danny pulled an audible mid-date and saved the company some money.

Then Ainge dropped him on the street with some cab money.

[hpantazo]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

I've seen several different sites put Beal as his pro player comparison. I never liked the comparison before, but I can see it if he plays more 2 than 1.

Curry, Nash, D-Will - none of these guys were/are particularly explosive and yet they during their times dominated repeatedly place top 3 in PG rankings.

Size, ball-handling skill and shooting ability have proven to be as or more useful than explosive quickness in operating PNR. Fultz is downright slithery with the ball. Very hard for guards to pressure him with his handle too.

Sure, but Curry was selected 7th, Nash 15th, and DWilliams, the only one of them to not win an MVP or a ring, was picked 3rd. None of them were picked at #1.

How many point guards can you name in the past 20 years that were taken #1 and lead their team to a title?

[ETNCeltics]

Is danny going to float random reasons he didn't like Fultz daily until he thinks the fans buy into it?

What on earth makes you think Ainge cares what the fans think about his draft strategy?

If you were in his position would you?

What on earth makes you think he doesn't? Like every other NBA GM, ainge cares about the perception of him. Otherwise, we wouldn' t be hearing any of this. This is like the 3rd supposed leak from the Celtic front office in the last few days. We're getting constant info from ainge because he knows he looks like a complete moron for trading Fultz.

[Who]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

I've seen several different sites put Beal as his pro player comparison. I never liked the comparison before, but I can see it if he plays more 2 than 1.

Curry, Nash, D-Will - none of these guys were/are particularly explosive and yet they during their times dominated repeatedly place top 3 in PG rankings.

Size, ball-handling skill and shooting ability have proven to be as or more useful than explosive quickness in operating PNR. Fultz is downright slithery with the ball. Very hard for guards to pressure him with his handle too.

Yes, good point.

Not to that point -- more as an aside -- I don't think Deron Williams would be a top PG at his peak if he came into the league today rather than 10-13 years ago. I have always considered him more of an all-rounder. Today is more about PnR and driving ability. Offenses were more balanced back then. Gave him more opportunities to use full extent of his skills.

[Who]

I still see Fultz as a Paul Pierce type of player at combo guard (rather than a PG). Both crafty & skilled with good athleticism rather than an elite athlete.

Same as I rated James Harden coming out of NCAA. Brandon Roy is another. They are better comparisons than Beal with extra handles / passing because those guys had those handles and passing ability.

Still not sure Fultz is a PG. I see him as a question mark there. I am sure Fultz can play SG and excel there if he cannot play PG.

[SparzWizard]

Plot twist. Philadelphia uses #1 pick to draft Josh Jackson. Lakers draft Jayson Tatum upon reading the Fultz's lack of explosiveness.

Celtics get left with drafting Markelle Fultz, Lonzo Ball, or De'Aaron Fox. 

But really, maybe it's starting to convince me that Ainge didn't get fleeced. But if Fultz does come out panning like a true #1 pick, then they just helped the 76ers formed a dynasty for years to come.

[Ilikesports17]

That is interesting. About the explosiveness.

I have been concerned about how much Fultz has been called a PG over the last few weeks. He always seemed more like a combo guard to me. I think some of those elite physical measurements compared to PGs were given too much weight and not considered enough against other combo guards and SGs.

It is disappointing that there were concerns about Fultz' explosiveness. Sounds more like he'll spend most of his time at SG rather than PG. That the Celtics were unconvinced that Fultz had the explosive quickness to beat quicker smaller guards off the dribble consistently enough. That he would be forced into more jump-shots against those players rather than getting into the paint and causing trouble.

So if Fultz is more of a SG than PG, does that make Bradley Beal more of a comparison for him?

Beal with some more handles and passing ability.

That is a very nice player but not an unmissable talent.

I've seen several different sites put Beal as his pro player comparison. I never liked the comparison before, but I can see it if he plays more 2 than 1.

I don't see Fultz being nearly the shooter Beal is.