Author Topic: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.  (Read 4038 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« on: June 18, 2017, 09:03:55 AM »

Offline celtics2030

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1437
  • Tommy Points: 72
Just not good. Won't get them past Cleveland or Golden St.

Im starting to think that every single year that goes by , player names are the only thing that gets casual NBA fans over hyping a team.

Hayward , IT, Butler all need the ball. None of them are the greatest off the ball. All of them need the ball to create. While that is a nice thing to have at 3 positions, only one ball on the court, and this could easily mess up chemistry. Not to mention 3 scoring egos on the court.

The main reason Garnett , Allen,  and Pierce were great were because

Each could shoot, each could create, Ray could play off ball at an elite level. Garnett was unselfish playing whatever role he needed to for each game. Pierce was the only guy that had the scoring ego mentality , but he even did not care at that point and sacrificed as well.

Let us say we had Chris Paul, Butler, Hayward, Horford, and a solid other big.

Well that changes a lot as our starting lineup. I think they could compete with any team in the league.

The biggest Key would be for Horford to become a very valuable 3 point shooting big. He has shown he can shoot from deep, so this is an important thing.

I just think that If you get Gordon and Jimmy, that IT is not the guy you want to be leading the charge, because his game and his weaknesses would be too much to overcome. Even Paul George would not make that difference in place of Butler or Hayward,,,,unless one of these guys sacrifices his scoring and shots for a different role. Although his offensive skill to play off ball would become an issue.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 09:17:02 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3558
  • Tommy Points: 182
I disagree. That team would be really good but we would still need a versatile big.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 09:21:13 AM »

Offline BlackCeltic

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 865
  • Tommy Points: 64
I disagree. That team would be really good but we would still need a versatile big.

Naw, this team sucks.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2017, 09:24:54 AM »

Offline __ramonezy__

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 523
  • Tommy Points: 62
That team is awful... and the weak point is Butler. I'm simply not sold on his offensive talent and that would stifle ball movement.

I don't see him excelling on a team without the ball constantly being in his hands

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2017, 09:27:43 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
I don't think the OP has ever seen Hayward play at all if he think he can't shoot.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2017, 09:38:25 AM »

Online jambr380

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13752
  • Tommy Points: 2061
  • Sometimes there's no sane reason for optimism
If we do get Hayward and Butler, then I honestly do wonder what the plan with IT might be. Unless he willing to give us a massive discount, he will be the 4th max level player on this team - which simply isn't sustainable with other player contracts soon coming to an end.

I don't think we just let him walk, but I admit he might not be the very best fit with both Hayward and Butler. Maybe we could get a guy like Fultz to take his place...oh, wait  ;)

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2017, 09:41:28 AM »

Offline Boris Badenov

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5227
  • Tommy Points: 1065
Ray Allen was a ball-dominant 26ppg scorer when we acquired him. So was Pierce at that time.


Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2017, 09:49:21 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6227
  • Tommy Points: 823
How do you fill out a team with four max players and a fifth (AB) who likely will be able to get about $20 million on the market?

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 09:51:45 AM »

Offline iadera

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 964
  • Tommy Points: 74
  • CroCeltics
There wont be Butlers and Georges...trust me.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 11:21:01 AM »

Offline celtics2030

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1437
  • Tommy Points: 72
Ray Allen was a ball-dominant 26ppg scorer when we acquired him. So was Pierce at that time.

He was not ball dominant, he was the number 1 , so naturally he had the ball in his hands when  he had to , but he was also a off ball shooter with amazing foot work, and that was from the moment he got drafted

Pierce was more of a ball dominant scorer but he was great when big 3 got together.

 Butler and Hayward are not even close to Allen and Pierce

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 12:08:29 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8593
  • Tommy Points: 1389
I couldn't disagree more.  You're describing a broken team due to 3 ball-heavy players, but then conclude that the entire situation is rectified by swapping IT with CP3.  Is it a diffuse problem / crisis, or is this a personal bias against one player?

Hayward is far from ball-dominant.  My primary concern about him is that he falls into a complementary role at times.  He's too talented for that.  But that becomes a useful quality on a team with 2-3 other all-stars.  He's a fine player off the ball.

The Celtics have asked IT to be ball-dominant.  It's worked out pretty [dang] well because he's been so efficient, and over time (esp this playoffs) has learned when to facilitate vs. attack.  His consistent recruitment of better players also indicates that he's willing to share the wealth.  And yes, he's very good off the ball. 

Butler is the only potential issue I see re: ball dominance.  Like IT, he's probably been expected to carry the offense.  He's fully capable of playing off the ball and I suspect his shooting percentages would increase, but I'm not sure if he'll be happy in that role.  I wonder if he'll relax his ego with age and a desire to win. 

If there's buy-in, that team can absolutely beat CLE as soon as next year, and pose a legitimate challenge to GS.  They're stacked top to bottom, and ring chasers will come calling.  And if Butler can be had for picks, AB/Crowder/Brown/Smart/Rozier is a [dang] fine complementary unit. 

I've come to believe that IT is the least appreciated Celtic of all time.  It's a [dang] shame.  As soon as we were bounced from the playoffs -- inevitably, and only after over-achieving yet again -- his leadership to the #1 seed was quickly forgotten.  There are only a handful of players that are capable of leading a team the way he did.  Just take a look at the "stars" we are considering in FA and trades.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 12:16:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8721
  • Tommy Points: 854
Chris Paul is WAY more ball dominant than IT. Just because Thomas shoots more does not mean he's ball dominant.

Jimmy butler is the only one who is ball dominant. Both Thomas and Hayward could be terrific off ball and obviously guys like Horford Crowder and Bradley if they remained in the roster would thrive off ball.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 12:16:22 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37781
  • Tommy Points: 3030
I think the Idea is to have enough star or high scoring capable players to keep two on the court for 48 minutes .   GS always has two great playersmon the floor with three rotation guys . 

Cavs wanted that ...rather Lebron sees thats the key so he and Irving , sit .....two more true scorers , not has been players from 12 years ago can come in and keep up the pressure and points going in the bucket.

I think we have to have minimum of 4-5 guys who can put the ball in the hole ANYTime ,  not part time like AB, Smart or KO .......

I think the whole league sees this now .......Lebron comment when he is GM or owner ...he signs Everybody who is star .....you can t have enough.

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2017, 12:19:54 PM »

Offline Boston Garden Leprechaun

  • Sam Jones
  • **********************
  • Posts: 22096
  • Tommy Points: 1775
There wont be Butlers and Georges...trust me.

okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay...........hayward for sure,    who else/ davis??
LET'S GO CELTICS!

Re: IT, Hayward, Butler is ridiculous in a bad way.
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2017, 12:26:07 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 37781
  • Tommy Points: 3030
Chris Paul is WAY more ball dominant than IT. Just because Thomas shoots more does not mean he's ball dominant.

Jimmy butler is the only one who is ball dominant. Both Thomas and Hayward could be terrific off ball and obviously guys like Horford Crowder and Bradley if they remained in the roster would thrive off ball.


IT is pretty good about doing "something " with he ball other than standing in one spot dribbling.  At least he is probing , dancing , passing , faking , constant movement.   Paul sometimes slows down as slow as Rondo.

For the most part any two will be needed on the floor .  Guys who like IT , Bultler , Pierce , can hit an open shot .....put pressure on the defense to play defense .

Too many good shooter as GS has proved is a good thing .....it wears Lebron out play n 48 mi utes to compenstate