Smart needs to go, if Hayward is coming

[ThePaintedArea]

Reason 1. He's best at point guard. Thomas and Fultz ahead of him on the depth chart, means extremely limiting Minutes for his best position in the floor.

Actually he plays almost all his minutes at one or the other of the wing positions. This allows Thomas to play off the ball; and Rozier is more effective mostly off the ball. Smart gets minutes with Bradley, too, though Avery generally takes the opponent pg on D.

Reason 3. He's a liability on offense. He still can't shoot and can't finish at the rim. This is unlikely to change.

He's a plus on both sides of the ball. Offense is more than shooting.

He had the fifth-most minutes, per game, on the team. He gets crunch-time minutes. Looks like Brad values him higher than the average poster here - the naysayers might take a step back and ask themselves why that is. 

Hate to rain on the parade but Hayward doesn't make sense to me.

He is not a plus on offense. Does that mean he's not valuable? No. But lets not get silly.

You seem sure of yourself - or at least enough to think that I'm being silly. And I'm not sure what makes you so sure, so I don't know what to address about Smart's game.  I'll just point to a couple of things.

First off, he was not a plus on offense until this past year.  He clearly grew into his new role, with increased responsibility running the offense, and despite the uptick in turnovers he created a lot more good shots than previously, moved the ball at another level from previously. 

He upped his own rate of free throw trips (per FG attempt), which also helped the rest of the team get into the penalty earlier; the team free throw rate increased as well as his own.

I could go on - Marcus does a lot of non-box score stuff, has a super instinct for spacing, creates space, throws ahead on the break, runs the offense so that Isaiah can play off the ball, etc., etc...

This is basketball, not HORSE. It's a team game, and Marcus helps you win it.

[ThePaintedArea]

Agree with all your points on Smart, especially regarding Brad valuing him much more than the average fan.

However, not sure how Hayward doesn't make sense to you. A very strong wing scorer who can shoot the ball and is a decent defender, who is just about to enter his prime and just had the best season of his career to date. Plus, he has a good relationship with Brad. Not sure what's not to like.

I agree with you about those points - he has a lot to offer. 

I'd sum it up slightly differently: Hayward creates shots, doesn't turn it over, gets to the line at a decent clip, and makes his shots - a True Shooting % of .595 is stellar.  He's a decent defender, as you say; the old NBA cliche applies: "he doesn't hurt you on defense", though he's not a stopper and not versatile. As a small-ball 4 he's a matchup problem, though you don't want him guarding bigger players for long stretches; and he's a mediocre defensive rebounder, which was a glaring weakness for Boston this past season - and he's especially poor if you play him as a big.

Here's the thing, though: Boston already has strength at the wings, and in particular a budding star in Jaylen Brown who has the makings of a big-time shot creator who gets to the line a lot - and has the tools and drive to be a stopper.

Crowder is not a star but he's the perfect complementary wing - and you HAVE to have complementary players.  A Big Three and D-Leaguers is not a recipe for success, especially for long-term success.  Jae's TSP% of .613 is even better than Hayward's; he is an excellent defender who can switch up or down; he's a significantly better defensive rebounder than Hayward, and he's on a great contract. Does that mean that he's better than Hayward? Good question, but it's true that Hayward has the rare ability to get the team shots, and that rare talent is absolutely essential in modern basketball.

I would agree that Boston needs a star, a shot creator, but they're better off getting a big who can create shots AND improve their defensive rebounding.

TP. Very solid response.

I happen to agree with you, a big who can create shots for himself would be far more desirable, and that Hayward would be quite a slight upgrade over Crowder - his offensive ability more than making up for Crowder being better on the defensive end.

However, the top free agent bigs are Paul Millsap and Blake Griffin, followed by Serge Ibaka. Millsap is a bit of a question mark because of his age, and whether or not he can keep producing at such a high level as he has been. Yet he would address our rebounding problem tremendously without us losing considerable floor spacing ability. Whether or not he's deserving of a max contract, which he is more than likely to be offered, is the key question.
Blake would be huge for us if it wasn't for the injury concerns - only playing 163 regular season games in the past 3 seasons is very hard to justify a max contract on.
And Serge Ibaka is simply inferior and probably a third option at best on a championship contender (although the last time he was considered that highly he was playing with KD and Westbrook).

I don't mind Boston not pursuing any max worthy free agents this offseason if DA is planning for something else, but I'd still like to see more star (or thereabouts) players in green 

Pretty much completely agree.

Ibaka is out - can't run offense through him, not a star.

Millsap's age is the consideration; I think that your defensive rebounding improves with him just because the other parts of team defense improve.

And again I share your concerns about Blake's injury history.  Otherwise he'd be perfect. 

Actually, I'd take the chance if you can keep the roster reasonably intact.  Talk about ball- and man-movement!

[CelticsElite]

[dreamgreen]

I think you can have them both but Smart has to be on the floor with scorers. CBS needs better play makers and shooters to run the offense he's trying for. Hayward fits both of those, Smart can't shoot and is hit and miss on being a play maker. Truly Smart is not a good fit on this team, he's a 20 mpg hustler.

[IDreamCeltics]

Reason 1. He's best at point guard. Thomas and Fultz ahead of him on the depth chart, means extremely limiting Minutes for his best position in the floor.

 Reason 2. He's going to command a huge raise next year. Who would you rather pay Avery who fits perfectly with Thomas or Fultz or Smart.

 Reason 3. He's a liability on offense. He still can't shoot and can't finish at the rim. This is unlikely to change.

 He's a fierce Competitor, and a great teamate, but if I have to choose between Smart, Bradley, and Crowders awesome contract. Sayanora Smart.

Not a tough decision at all.  Smart needs to be traded ASAP.  Half his skill-set is being the primary ball-handler for the second unit.  If the Celtics were to bring in Fultz and Hayward he loses that job before opening tip-off, which limits his contributions to 20 minutes per game of good defense and negative offense.  You can replace a non-shooting, defensive wing with a late first round pick ANY year. 

People will forget about Smart the day after he's traded.

[SHAQATTACK]

Smart is cheaper and part of the future .   

Bradley has to go .....no way they can afford to keep him , and Pay IT

You can not tell Hayward we are a competive team without IT . .....IT is part of the attraction to FAs

Hayward might come to Boston without AB , but he has no reason without IT on the team.

Crowder and Smart are the guys that are more flexable for the future cheaper contrcats

Bradley is expecting a huge contract , he is very tradeable ,  we need ITs scoring with Fultz .

Brwon, Smart and Fultz are the future ,    ......get Hayward plus IT ...see what happens.

[Big333223]

Someone is going to have to go when Fultz comes in. I'm not sold that that player should be Smart.

I'm also not sold he's going to get $15 mil a year. For comparison's sake, last summer Jordan Clarkson got about $12.5 mil a year, Jeremy Lin got $12 mil a year, Matthew Delevadova got about  $9.5 mil a year. The cap will be higher next summer than it was last summer but there will also be fewer teams with money to throw around and the league will still be flush with PG's.

If Marcus still can't shoot 3's next season, I don't think he gets much more than $10 mil a year.

[LilRip]

Someone is going to have to go when Fultz comes in. I'm not sold that that player should be Smart.

I'm also not sold he's going to get $15 mil a year. For comparison's sake, last summer Jordan Clarkson got about $12.5 mil a year, Jeremy Lin got $12 mil a year, Matthew Delevadova got about  $9.5 mil a year. The cap will be higher next summer than it was last summer but there will also be fewer teams with money to throw around and the league will still be flush with PG's.

If Marcus still can't shoot 3's next season, I don't think he gets much more than $10 mil a year.

Fairly convinced he gets 10. Maybe 12. But likely not much more than that. Jordan Clarkson is a good comparison, IMO.

[Big333223]

Someone is going to have to go when Fultz comes in. I'm not sold that that player should be Smart.

I'm also not sold he's going to get $15 mil a year. For comparison's sake, last summer Jordan Clarkson got about $12.5 mil a year, Jeremy Lin got $12 mil a year, Matthew Delevadova got about  $9.5 mil a year. The cap will be higher next summer than it was last summer but there will also be fewer teams with money to throw around and the league will still be flush with PG's.

If Marcus still can't shoot 3's next season, I don't think he gets much more than $10 mil a year.

Fairly convinced he gets 10. Maybe 12. But likely not much more than that. Jordan Clarkson is a good comparison, IMO.

Yeah. They're very different kinds of players but similarly, specialists with specific stengths and weaknesses. If Marcus gets $12-13 mil I gues I won't be surprised. Which is pretty close to $15 mil, I guess.

[More Banners]

Someone is going to have to go when Fultz comes in. I'm not sold that that player should be Smart.

I'm also not sold he's going to get $15 mil a year. For comparison's sake, last summer Jordan Clarkson got about $12.5 mil a year, Jeremy Lin got $12 mil a year, Matthew Delevadova got about  $9.5 mil a year. The cap will be higher next summer than it was last summer but there will also be fewer teams with money to throw around and the league will still be flush with PG's.

If Marcus still can't shoot 3's next season, I don't think he gets much more than $10 mil a year.

He might be a player that a contender gives the MLE to. That's what, $8-9M now?  Makes the most sense. No team is using more cap space than that anyway- they'd go after someone with more offense I'd imagine. About what Bradley gets now.

The big money from the exploding cap dries up when they are set to get paid all this money. Sucks to be them. IT too.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

[spikelovetheCelts]

With the team's luxury tax concerns in the future, we will need to save money. Keeping Smart rather than Bradley is going with the less expensive option, which I think makes the most sense long term.

Our Ownership better go over the cap to sign players especially if Golden State pays the 70 mil extra to keep their team together. Smart and Bradley play good against the Warriors. If I see cheap on here again I am going to hammer our ownership and I will lose interest in being a Celtics fan just like I did with the Bruins.

[Celtics4ever]

There is a abundance of guys saying so and so has to go for this or that on the board.

I trust DA, Smart is a bench guy folks, not a starter.   He can start in a pinch but game three against  CLE was an anomaly not the norm.    He has does not have to go anywhere  just yet.   He can't shoot well and will be a bench guy when his time comes up if he does not improve in this area.   He is not going to get close to the max.

[jambr380]

I love your posts KGLL, but what happened since you started this thread a couple of weeks ago?

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=90847.msg2308048#msg2308048

Are you flip-flopping  on your love for Smart/AB? Do they know this? Maybe you should be honest with them. 

[nickagneta]

I would have no problem with creating cap space to sign Hayward by trading Crowder and Smart. Hayward and Fultz is a major upgrade over Crowder and Smart.

It then allows you to retain to Olynyk. Now I'm not the biggest KO fan but we need bigs and besides the room exception and vet minimum contracts I don't see how you add quality bigs. Of course, a sign and trade with KO could work also, depending on where he gets an offer sheet.

IT/Fultz/Rozier
Bradley/Fultz/Brown
Hayward/Brown
Horford/room exception big(Kris Humphries, Aron Baynes, Anthony Tolliver, etc.)
Olynyk/Zizic