Author Topic: Bulpett Nails it  (Read 12219 times)

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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2017, 09:44:14 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The instant gratification folks aren't going to like that. 

I think Bulpett is spot-on and I think its become more & more apparent since last summer that they're trying to set themselves up in "have your cake & eat it too" mode wherein they can be very competitive now & set themselves up for even greater future success without much sacrifice to either.

And do it on the cheap.

I'll say this for Ainge: He's set up a team for greatness - Milwaukee.

I'm sure they are thrilled with Ainge's talent evaluation - Greek Freak, who some analysts project as the transcendent NBA star of the next five years; can't believe it's not Jaylen Brown. LOL - Brogsdon. I bet they can't wait to see who he whiffs on this year.
You do realise it wasn't Danny Ainge who missed the Greek Freak right? Considering we picked 16th and traded for KO.

But yeah, it's solely Danny Ainge's fault that Milwaukee picked a guy who looks legit (despite getting away with everything) at FIFTEENTH, and seemingly got lucky in Brogdon. All Danny's fault.
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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2017, 09:51:35 PM »

Offline Moranis

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Not sure what you're referring to.  Seems clear that Boston is likely improve this offseason by way of trade (Butler, George, etc.) or free agency (Hayward), and could potentially retain the BKN picks.  They're loaded with youth, vets under contract for several years (expecting AB to be traded), and an offensive star.  Where does the need come from to hit the panic button?  Their direction seems very clear to me.
making trades and adding free agents us picking a direction, but what if they make no trades and sign no notable free agents then what?  That is what I'm getting at.
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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2017, 10:49:24 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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The instant gratification folks aren't going to like that. 

I think Bulpett is spot-on and I think its become more & more apparent since last summer that they're trying to set themselves up in "have your cake & eat it too" mode wherein they can be very competitive now & set themselves up for even greater future success without much sacrifice to either.

And do it on the cheap.

I'll say this for Ainge: He's set up a team for greatness - Milwaukee.

I'm sure they are thrilled with Ainge's talent evaluation - Greek Freak, who some analysts project as the transcendent NBA star of the next five years; can't believe it's not Jaylen Brown. LOL - Brogsdon. I bet they can't wait to see who he whiffs on this year.
Posts like this about guys drafted 15th are absurd.

Popovich is also garbage because he passed on Brogdon.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2017, 11:24:43 PM »

Offline moiso

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Not sure what you're referring to.  Seems clear that Boston is likely improve this offseason by way of trade (Butler, George, etc.) or free agency (Hayward), and could potentially retain the BKN picks.  They're loaded with youth, vets under contract for several years (expecting AB to be traded), and an offensive star.  Where does the need come from to hit the panic button?  Their direction seems very clear to me.
making trades and adding free agents us picking a direction, but what if they make no trades and sign no notable free agents then what?  That is what I'm getting at.
You will only be satisfied when all the players on the roster are the exact same age and we have no draft picks on the way for several years.  That's the perfect Moranis team.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2017, 11:01:22 AM »

Offline Moranis

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Not sure what you're referring to.  Seems clear that Boston is likely improve this offseason by way of trade (Butler, George, etc.) or free agency (Hayward), and could potentially retain the BKN picks.  They're loaded with youth, vets under contract for several years (expecting AB to be traded), and an offensive star.  Where does the need come from to hit the panic button?  Their direction seems very clear to me.
making trades and adding free agents us picking a direction, but what if they make no trades and sign no notable free agents then what?  That is what I'm getting at.
You will only be satisfied when all the players on the roster are the exact same age and we have no draft picks on the way for several years.  That's the perfect Moranis team.
umbrella no. I've actually been pretty vocal about making trades and going for a title run.  Picking a direction doesn't just mean rebuilding that is one direction of course but there is the other.  I just want the team to make one before they ruin both options
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2017, 11:45:27 AM »

Offline Granath

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The instant gratification folks aren't going to like that. 

I think Bulpett is spot-on and I think its become more & more apparent since last summer that they're trying to set themselves up in "have your cake & eat it too" mode wherein they can be very competitive now & set themselves up for even greater future success without much sacrifice to either.

And do it on the cheap.

I'll say this for Ainge: He's set up a team for greatness - Milwaukee.

I'm sure they are thrilled with Ainge's talent evaluation - Greek Freak, who some analysts project as the transcendent NBA star of the next five years; can't believe it's not Jaylen Brown. LOL - Brogsdon. I bet they can't wait to see who he whiffs on this year.
last I checked there Skippy, Brown's having a better rookie season than Dunn who was your preferred pick this year.

 Boom goes the dynamite! TP King! That was awesome! # Dunn Sucks!
TP back at ya.  there's a reason he never goes on record with what he thinks should be done.

TP. There's a reason he's referred to as DumBo. He loves to harp on Giannis yet can't produce on shred of evidence - not one post - that suggested he liked Giannis before the Freak started showing potential in the NBA. The few times he has gone on record he's been 100% wrong - witness his Dunn love affair.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2017, 12:08:00 PM »

Offline Granath

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Actually, no they don't.

Let's just assume that Boston stands pat this offseason. They make no trades and no significant FA signings - the worst case scenario. They replace Johnson and Tyler in FA and that's about it.

So what? They'll have a top 4 pick in what appears to be a good draft to add to a young core of Brown and Smart. You have to count on some natural development of young players (and that extends to guys like Rozier). Add in Zizic (who some have said would be a lottery pick this year) and Yabusele to that group. So they'd be building a young core of highly touted guys.

Those young guys would still be learning from a tough playoff core of IT, Bradley and Crowder who are all still in their prime. Horford would be the old man of 31. This team can compete for wins and has improved every year. Who is to say that this year is the maximum they're capable of? As the young guys step up and show they're ready, the older core gets new life and (in some cases) becomes expendable assets. Thus the "stand pat" strategy is neither a full blown youth movement nor a win now scenario but is still a reasonable approach to be a long term very good - and perhaps great - team.

Never in the history of the NBA has a 50 win team had top 5 lottery picks in consecutive drafts. Boston will be the first - and that could easily be 3 in a row in 2018. The track record of top 5 picks going to winning teams is quite encouraging. Most of those guys historically have become All-Stars. One thing most young guys in the NBA have to learn is what it takes to win. Going to a team that's already winning sets that standard and approach for rookies Day One. That's invaluable. The example is learned, the standard is set and the approach expected. Players who win don't generally like to turn around and lose which is why high draft picks to good teams usually succeed.

Most guys can succeed when given the right surroundings to do so. I've said it before - guys like Brown are being put in the best possible situation for their talents. Great coach. Good players to go up against in practice. A winning environment. That goes a long way to developing players.

So no, it's not coming a time where Danny has to pick a direction. It's not either win now or youth movement. Thinking that is a failure of imagination. Because Danny has made many right moves - Brooklyn trade, IT, Crowder, Horford, Bradley - there are other choices available that other teams couldn't take. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 12:13:38 PM by Granath »
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2017, 12:18:22 PM »

Offline Chief

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

I agree with this too. Danny has put us in a great spot.  But this summer might decide if we are a 10 year dynasty team or just a team that had a lot of pieces but never put together the puzzle.

Tp Moranis!
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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2017, 02:40:05 PM »

Offline Moranis

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Actually, no they don't.

Let's just assume that Boston stands pat this offseason. They make no trades and no significant FA signings - the worst case scenario. They replace Johnson and Tyler in FA and that's about it.

So what? They'll have a top 4 pick in what appears to be a good draft to add to a young core of Brown and Smart. You have to count on some natural development of young players (and that extends to guys like Rozier). Add in Zizic (who some have said would be a lottery pick this year) and Yabusele to that group. So they'd be building a young core of highly touted guys.

Those young guys would still be learning from a tough playoff core of IT, Bradley and Crowder who are all still in their prime. Horford would be the old man of 31. This team can compete for wins and has improved every year. Who is to say that this year is the maximum they're capable of? As the young guys step up and show they're ready, the older core gets new life and (in some cases) becomes expendable assets. Thus the "stand pat" strategy is neither a full blown youth movement nor a win now scenario but is still a reasonable approach to be a long term very good - and perhaps great - team.

Never in the history of the NBA has a 50 win team had top 5 lottery picks in consecutive drafts. Boston will be the first - and that could easily be 3 in a row in 2018. The track record of top 5 picks going to winning teams is quite encouraging. Most of those guys historically have become All-Stars. One thing most young guys in the NBA have to learn is what it takes to win. Going to a team that's already winning sets that standard and approach for rookies Day One. That's invaluable. The example is learned, the standard is set and the approach expected. Players who win don't generally like to turn around and lose which is why high draft picks to good teams usually succeed.

Most guys can succeed when given the right surroundings to do so. I've said it before - guys like Brown are being put in the best possible situation for their talents. Great coach. Good players to go up against in practice. A winning environment. That goes a long way to developing players.

So no, it's not coming a time where Danny has to pick a direction. It's not either win now or youth movement. Thinking that is a failure of imagination. Because Danny has made many right moves - Brooklyn trade, IT, Crowder, Horford, Bradley - there are other choices available that other teams couldn't take.
Young players require playing time to reach their full potential and get there a lot faster when they play more than 24 mpg.  Historically almost every single hall of famer got significant playing time as a rookie.  Even looking at the multiple time all stars, the same hold trues.  Now maybe they just got playing time because they were good enough, that is likely part of it, but lets pose this hypothetical.

Boston drafts Fultz this summer.  Fultz is either barely going to play because he is behind Thomas, Smart, and Bradley (and even Brown to a lesser extent) or he is going to take minutes from one of those players.  If it is the former, then Fultz just isn't going to develop and might never reach his ceiling or might do so on a team other than Boston because it just takes so long.  If it is the former, then what is the point in keeping all of those guys around if they are just going to lose minutes to a rookie?  Might as well just open those minutes up fully and get something for the player that clearly won't be around long term anyway.  Or maybe Zizic, how much is Zizic really going to grow playing 10-15 mpg backing up Horford for 3 years?  Or maybe Zizic's ceiling really is Zeller so it doesn't matter. 

There are certainly plenty of uncertainties, but you can't just try to rebuild and win at the same time forever, it just hamstrings both options because you either hang on to assets that could have turned into players that might actually win you a title or you stunt the development of guys you think could some day be a championship core such that they never reach their full potential.  Couple that with some real salary decisions (I mean if you max Thomas, re-sign Bradley, Olynyk, Smart, etc. - how exactly are you going to re-sign Brown, Fultz, etc. - there just won't be enough money).
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

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Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2017, 03:05:32 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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You can only have your cake and eat too for so long before you cause more harm than good to either path.  The time is quickly approaching where Boston needs to take a clear direction and make the moves necessary for that path.

Actually, no they don't.

Let's just assume that Boston stands pat this offseason. They make no trades and no significant FA signings - the worst case scenario. They replace Johnson and Tyler in FA and that's about it.

So what? They'll have a top 4 pick in what appears to be a good draft to add to a young core of Brown and Smart. You have to count on some natural development of young players (and that extends to guys like Rozier). Add in Zizic (who some have said would be a lottery pick this year) and Yabusele to that group. So they'd be building a young core of highly touted guys.

Those young guys would still be learning from a tough playoff core of IT, Bradley and Crowder who are all still in their prime. Horford would be the old man of 31. This team can compete for wins and has improved every year. Who is to say that this year is the maximum they're capable of? As the young guys step up and show they're ready, the older core gets new life and (in some cases) becomes expendable assets. Thus the "stand pat" strategy is neither a full blown youth movement nor a win now scenario but is still a reasonable approach to be a long term very good - and perhaps great - team.

Never in the history of the NBA has a 50 win team had top 5 lottery picks in consecutive drafts. Boston will be the first - and that could easily be 3 in a row in 2018. The track record of top 5 picks going to winning teams is quite encouraging. Most of those guys historically have become All-Stars. One thing most young guys in the NBA have to learn is what it takes to win. Going to a team that's already winning sets that standard and approach for rookies Day One. That's invaluable. The example is learned, the standard is set and the approach expected. Players who win don't generally like to turn around and lose which is why high draft picks to good teams usually succeed.

Most guys can succeed when given the right surroundings to do so. I've said it before - guys like Brown are being put in the best possible situation for their talents. Great coach. Good players to go up against in practice. A winning environment. That goes a long way to developing players.

So no, it's not coming a time where Danny has to pick a direction. It's not either win now or youth movement. Thinking that is a failure of imagination. Because Danny has made many right moves - Brooklyn trade, IT, Crowder, Horford, Bradley - there are other choices available that other teams couldn't take.
Young players require playing time to reach their full potential and get there a lot faster when they play more than 24 mpg.  Historically almost every single hall of famer got significant playing time as a rookie.  Even looking at the multiple time all stars, the same hold trues.  Now maybe they just got playing time because they were good enough, that is likely part of it, but lets pose this hypothetical.

Boston drafts Fultz this summer.  Fultz is either barely going to play because he is behind Thomas, Smart, and Bradley (and even Brown to a lesser extent) or he is going to take minutes from one of those players.  If it is the former, then Fultz just isn't going to develop and might never reach his ceiling or might do so on a team other than Boston because it just takes so long.  If it is the former, then what is the point in keeping all of those guys around if they are just going to lose minutes to a rookie?  Might as well just open those minutes up fully and get something for the player that clearly won't be around long term anyway.  Or maybe Zizic, how much is Zizic really going to grow playing 10-15 mpg backing up Horford for 3 years?  Or maybe Zizic's ceiling really is Zeller so it doesn't matter. 

There are certainly plenty of uncertainties, but you can't just try to rebuild and win at the same time forever, it just hamstrings both options because you either hang on to assets that could have turned into players that might actually win you a title or you stunt the development of guys you think could some day be a championship core such that they never reach their full potential.  Couple that with some real salary decisions (I mean if you max Thomas, re-sign Bradley, Olynyk, Smart, etc. - how exactly are you going to re-sign Brown, Fultz, etc. - there just won't be enough money).
You draft the player and worry about minutes later. Even if you resign the established guys, they're contracts will b up by the time the rookies are due for theirs.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2017, 03:51:57 PM »

Offline Granath

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Young players require playing time to reach their full potential and get there a lot faster when they play more than 24 mpg.  Historically almost every single hall of famer got significant playing time as a rookie.  Even looking at the multiple time all stars, the same hold trues.  Now maybe they just got playing time because they were good enough, that is likely part of it, but lets pose this hypothetical.

Boston drafts Fultz this summer.  Fultz is either barely going to play because he is behind Thomas, Smart, and Bradley (and even Brown to a lesser extent) or he is going to take minutes from one of those players.  If it is the former, then Fultz just isn't going to develop and might never reach his ceiling or might do so on a team other than Boston because it just takes so long.  If it is the former, then what is the point in keeping all of those guys around if they are just going to lose minutes to a rookie?  Might as well just open those minutes up fully and get something for the player that clearly won't be around long term anyway.  Or maybe Zizic, how much is Zizic really going to grow playing 10-15 mpg backing up Horford for 3 years?  Or maybe Zizic's ceiling really is Zeller so it doesn't matter. 

There are certainly plenty of uncertainties, but you can't just try to rebuild and win at the same time forever, it just hamstrings both options because you either hang on to assets that could have turned into players that might actually win you a title or you stunt the development of guys you think could some day be a championship core such that they never reach their full potential.  Couple that with some real salary decisions (I mean if you max Thomas, re-sign Bradley, Olynyk, Smart, etc. - how exactly are you going to re-sign Brown, Fultz, etc. - there just won't be enough money).

You based your entire post on a faulty premise that young players need starting minutes (after all, you said 24 mpg wasn't sufficient) to develop. They don't. They get the minutes as they earn them, not as they're given them. Look at the 2016 All-Stars. Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Lowry, Milsap, Green and so forth all didn't get more than 24 minutes their first year.
Some of those guys - like Lowry and Butler - really didn't play heavy minutes until their 3rd year.

The reason that most HoFers got 30+ minutes their first year is that historically most guys were drafted as juniors or seniors and their games were more well rounded. Of the Top 50 NBA players that were announced back in the mid-90s something like 40 of those guys were Seniors when drafted. Drafting freshmen rookies (and even guys who went from HS to the NBA) is a relatively new phenomenon. Garnett was the first HSer in over 20 years when he was drafted in 1995 and he's not even eligible for the HOF yet. So while your statement of "most HOFers got significant minutes their first year", most of those guys were 23 years old when drafted because that's the way the league was. It's changed since then.

So now that I've entirely debunked your faulty premise, let's address your remaining questions.

You're right that guys do need some playing time available to them as they earn it. That's an easy problem to deal with. You used Zizc as an example. If he's earned them the same way Jaylen Brown is earning his minutes, how about giving him the 20 minutes a game Amir Johnson is playing and move Al to PF where he'd rather play? What about giving him Zeller's 10? I'm sure Al wouldn't mind giving up a couple of minutes to conserve his aging body. That's 32 minutes without even trying much and Zizic isn't going to play 32 minutes next year.

Let's say we draft Fultz. If he's earned them, there are minutes to take from plenty of guys - IT, Smart, Bradley all play over 30 minutes a game. There are other minutes to juggle around. Finally, if they've earned them and there still aren't enough minutes to go around that's when you make a trade. Much like you make a trade when you need to extend Brown or any other rookie. That's an easy problem to deal with. If you want to extend Brown, you move Bradley.  Most teams would kill to have too many good players competing for a limited number of minutes.

So say we did max IT and resigned Bradley - as long as the contract is still valuable there's plenty of cap space to go around in the new NBA. So if IT is making the max and Fultz is ready then you move IT. As long as you haven't overpaid for him, you're going to be able to get enough cap savings to sign your restricted FAs the following year. That's the GM's job.

Finally, high draft picks on good teams get the added advantage of playing against good players in practice day in and day out. When you get a guy like Garnett on the TWolves or Durant in OKC the only way for those guys to learn the NBA game is by playing because the guys their going against in practice are generally not very good. If you're a PG drafted by the 76ers next year, who the heck are you going to learn to play from on that team? Zizic, Brown and Fultz and the rest will be going up against good pros like Horford, Crowder and Bradley. They're getting much of their game experience in practice because of their level of competition.

Again I feel like I'm addressing a failure of imagination. These are EASY problems to deal with.

PS: We're not rebuilding. We're contending. When you win 50+ games in a year, that's not a rebuild anymore.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 03:58:09 PM by Granath »
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2017, 04:13:28 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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The instant gratification folks aren't going to like that. 

I think Bulpett is spot-on and I think its become more & more apparent since last summer that they're trying to set themselves up in "have your cake & eat it too" mode wherein they can be very competitive now & set themselves up for even greater future success without much sacrifice to either.

And do it on the cheap.

I'll say this for Ainge: He's set up a team for greatness - Milwaukee.

I'm sure they are thrilled with Ainge's talent evaluation - Greek Freak, who some analysts project as the transcendent NBA star of the next five years; can't believe it's not Jaylen Brown. LOL - Brogsdon. I bet they can't wait to see who he whiffs on this year.
last I checked there Skippy, Brown's having a better rookie season than Dunn who was your preferred pick this year.

 Boom goes the dynamite! TP King! That was awesome! # Dunn Sucks!
TP back at ya.  there's a reason he never goes on record with what he thinks should be done.

TP. There's a reason he's referred to as DumBo. He loves to harp on Giannis yet can't produce on shred of evidence - not one post - that suggested he liked Giannis before the Freak started showing potential in the NBA. The few times he has gone on record he's been 100% wrong - witness his Dunn love affair.
TP = hadn't heard the Dumbo before.  catchy

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2017, 05:14:07 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Young players require playing time to reach their full potential and get there a lot faster when they play more than 24 mpg.  Historically almost every single hall of famer got significant playing time as a rookie.  Even looking at the multiple time all stars, the same hold trues.  Now maybe they just got playing time because they were good enough, that is likely part of it, but lets pose this hypothetical.

Boston drafts Fultz this summer.  Fultz is either barely going to play because he is behind Thomas, Smart, and Bradley (and even Brown to a lesser extent) or he is going to take minutes from one of those players.  If it is the former, then Fultz just isn't going to develop and might never reach his ceiling or might do so on a team other than Boston because it just takes so long.  If it is the former, then what is the point in keeping all of those guys around if they are just going to lose minutes to a rookie?  Might as well just open those minutes up fully and get something for the player that clearly won't be around long term anyway.  Or maybe Zizic, how much is Zizic really going to grow playing 10-15 mpg backing up Horford for 3 years?  Or maybe Zizic's ceiling really is Zeller so it doesn't matter. 

There are certainly plenty of uncertainties, but you can't just try to rebuild and win at the same time forever, it just hamstrings both options because you either hang on to assets that could have turned into players that might actually win you a title or you stunt the development of guys you think could some day be a championship core such that they never reach their full potential.  Couple that with some real salary decisions (I mean if you max Thomas, re-sign Bradley, Olynyk, Smart, etc. - how exactly are you going to re-sign Brown, Fultz, etc. - there just won't be enough money).

You based your entire post on a faulty premise that young players need starting minutes (after all, you said 24 mpg wasn't sufficient) to develop. They don't. They get the minutes as they earn them, not as they're given them. Look at the 2016 All-Stars. Jimmy Butler, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Lowry, Milsap, Green and so forth all didn't get more than 24 minutes their first year.
Some of those guys - like Lowry and Butler - really didn't play heavy minutes until their 3rd year.

The reason that most HoFers got 30+ minutes their first year is that historically most guys were drafted as juniors or seniors and their games were more well rounded. Of the Top 50 NBA players that were announced back in the mid-90s something like 40 of those guys were Seniors when drafted. Drafting freshmen rookies (and even guys who went from HS to the NBA) is a relatively new phenomenon. Garnett was the first HSer in over 20 years when he was drafted in 1995 and he's not even eligible for the HOF yet. So while your statement of "most HOFers got significant minutes their first year", most of those guys were 23 years old when drafted because that's the way the league was. It's changed since then.

So now that I've entirely debunked your faulty premise, let's address your remaining questions.

You're right that guys do need some playing time available to them as they earn it. That's an easy problem to deal with. You used Zizc as an example. If he's earned them the same way Jaylen Brown is earning his minutes, how about giving him the 20 minutes a game Amir Johnson is playing and move Al to PF where he'd rather play? What about giving him Zeller's 10? I'm sure Al wouldn't mind giving up a couple of minutes to conserve his aging body. That's 32 minutes without even trying much and Zizic isn't going to play 32 minutes next year.

Let's say we draft Fultz. If he's earned them, there are minutes to take from plenty of guys - IT, Smart, Bradley all play over 30 minutes a game. There are other minutes to juggle around. Finally, if they've earned them and there still aren't enough minutes to go around that's when you make a trade. Much like you make a trade when you need to extend Brown or any other rookie. That's an easy problem to deal with. If you want to extend Brown, you move Bradley.  Most teams would kill to have too many good players competing for a limited number of minutes.

So say we did max IT and resigned Bradley - as long as the contract is still valuable there's plenty of cap space to go around in the new NBA. So if IT is making the max and Fultz is ready then you move IT. As long as you haven't overpaid for him, you're going to be able to get enough cap savings to sign your restricted FAs the following year. That's the GM's job.

Finally, high draft picks on good teams get the added advantage of playing against good players in practice day in and day out. When you get a guy like Garnett on the TWolves or Durant in OKC the only way for those guys to learn the NBA game is by playing because the guys their going against in practice are generally not very good. If you're a PG drafted by the 76ers next year, who the heck are you going to learn to play from on that team? Zizic, Brown and Fultz and the rest will be going up against good pros like Horford, Crowder and Bradley. They're getting much of their game experience in practice because of their level of competition.

Again I feel like I'm addressing a failure of imagination. These are EASY problems to deal with.

PS: We're not rebuilding. We're contending. When you win 50+ games in a year, that's not a rebuild anymore.
Great point, just like Reggie Lewis benefitting from playing against Bird McHale Ainge Parish, or Kawai Leonard beneftiing from playing against Duncan Parker Ginobilli in practice.

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2017, 05:41:46 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Leonard played 24 minutes even his rookie year and started 39 of 64 games.  He played over 27 mpg in the playoffs starting all 14 games.  George played just under 21 mpg, but started his last 19 games and was well over 24 mpg in those, including 27 mpg in his 5 playoff starts.  Lowry broke his wrist after 10 games in his rookie year.  He had played 17.5 mpg in those 10 games but was over 25 mpg in his 2nd year coming off of the wrist injury.  I will give you that Butler barely played as a rookie but jumped to 26 in year 2 and has been above 35 since.  Green as a 2nd round pick also didn't play much as a rookie or even all that much in year 2. Same with Millsap.

Again though those are the exception not the rule.  Players get better faster the more they play.  That shouldn't really be a strange statement or one that gets this much push back.

As for the salary stuff that just isn't accurate.  You give Thomas a 5 year max you have to re-sign Brown 2 years into that 5 years, Fultz (or whomever) 3 years in, even the 2018 pick while you still have 1 year left on Thomas.  Bradley, Smart, Olynyk, etc. Are all on the books.  And it is a bit strange to automatically assume you can easily move all those guys if need be.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: Bulpett Nails it
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2017, 06:32:53 PM »

Offline footey

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After reading the great back and forth on this thread, as the OP, I just wanted to say:

You're welcome.

Now back to the heated debate.......