We aren't very good without Horford

[SHAQATTACK]

Bring back the Sully monster !

[Celtics4ever]

Bring back the Sully monster !

I think many of us would rather roll the dice without picking Sully off the scrap heap.   This season he is shooting a scintillating 32% from the field and a scorching 17% from the trey line.   He would really help us to lose games.

MIA is looking at him

but here are his stats this year with the above shooting percentages.

He played 11 games for the Raptors, averaging 3.4 points and 2.5 rebounds in just 10.7 minutes per game and was traded last month to the Phoenix Suns, along with two second-round picks, for P.J. Tucker.

I real they are going to cut Bosh.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article136747833.html

Whom, I rather take a flyer on than Sully. 

[Moranis]

Well yeah, but a lot of that is who is playing instead of Horford, especially with Amir and KO in foul trouble.

True, but look at our record without Horford, we completely collapse.

because we have no front court depth.  If you took Horford's 28 million and used it on 3 useful front court players that were all individually worse than Horford but in the same general skill range as Amir and KO (but maybe a defensive guy, a rebounder, and a jack of all trades guy), would the team be better or worse?  That has always been the issue I've had with the Horford signing.  He is a very strong all around player, but he isn't elite and by giving him all this money, Boston gave up a lot of flexibility both long and short term.

So you want to be last year's team?

plus Brown and whatever players were signed with Horford and Zeller money.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Well yeah, but a lot of that is who is playing instead of Horford, especially with Amir and KO in foul trouble.

True, but look at our record without Horford, we completely collapse.

because we have no front court depth.  If you took Horford's 28 million and used it on 3 useful front court players that were all individually worse than Horford but in the same general skill range as Amir and KO (but maybe a defensive guy, a rebounder, and a jack of all trades guy), would the team be better or worse?  That has always been the issue I've had with the Horford signing.  He is a very strong all around player, but he isn't elite and by giving him all this money, Boston gave up a lot of flexibility both long and short term.

So you want to be last year's team?

plus Brown and whatever players were signed with Horford and Zeller money.

No one wants to sign with Boston in FA, and you have to reach the floor of the cap anyway, so it's not wasted money.  A frontcourt of KO/JJ/Amir is the worst in the NBA.  Seriously.

[Eddie20]

Well yeah, but a lot of that is who is playing instead of Horford, especially with Amir and KO in foul trouble.

True, but look at our record without Horford, we completely collapse.

because we have no front court depth.  If you took Horford's 28 million and used it on 3 useful front court players that were all individually worse than Horford but in the same general skill range as Amir and KO (but maybe a defensive guy, a rebounder, and a jack of all trades guy), would the team be better or worse?  That has always been the issue I've had with the Horford signing.  He is a very strong all around player, but he isn't elite and by giving him all this money, Boston gave up a lot of flexibility both long and short term.

So you want to be last year's team?

plus Brown and whatever players were signed with Horford and Zeller money.

Here you go sign the "3 the useful frontcourt players" with the Horford and Zeller money. Keep in mind, though, that you also have to now factor in the length of those deals and future roster spots as it relates to Zizic, Yabu, Nader, our 2017 1st rd pick from the Nets, and any potential FA signings. Which of course we now don't have a roster spot for because of those 3 useful frontcourt players.

BRADLEY BEAL: 5 years, $128 million with Wizards
TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
DEMAR DEROZAN: 5 years, $145 million with Raptors
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
NICOLAS BATUM: 5 years, $120 million with Hornets
JORDAN CLARKSON: 4 years, $50 million with Lakers
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
ISH SMITH: 3-year contract with Pistons
D.J. AUGUSTIN: 4-years, $29 million with Magic
JEREMY LIN: 3 years, $36 million with Nets
AL JEFFERSON: 3 years, $30 million with Pacers
JERRYD BAYLESS: 3 years, $27 million with 76ers
MIRZA TELETOVIC: 3 years, $30 million with Bucks
CHANDLER PARSONS: 4 years, $94 million with Grizzlies
EVAN TURNER: 4 years, $70 million with Blazers
EVAN FOURNIER: 5 years, $85 million with Magic
MATTHEW DELLAVEDOVA: 4 years, $38 million with Bucks (Cavs can match)
SOLOMON HILL: 4 years, $48 million with Pelicans
JEFF GREEN: 1 year, $15 million with Magic
DARRELL ARTHUR: 3 years, $23 million with Nuggets
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
MIKE CONLEY: 5 years, $153 million with Grizzlies
JUSTIN HAMILTON: 2 years, $6 million with Nets
JARED DUDLEY: 3 years, $30 million with Suns
E'TWAUN MOORE: 4 years, $34 million with Pelicans
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
KENT BAZEMORE: 4 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOE JOHNSON: 2 years, $22 million with Jazz
LUOL DENG: 4 years, $72 million with Lakers
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
ARRON AFFLALO: 2 years, $25 million with Kings
BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic
TREVOR BOOKER: 2 years, $18.5 million with Nets
RYAN ANDERSON: 4 years, $80 million with Rockets
MARVIN WILLIAMS: 4 years, $54.5 million with Hornets
ANTHONY TOLLIVER: 2 years, $16 million with Kings
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
COURTNEY LEE: 4 years, $50 million with the Knicks
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
AUSTIN RIVERS: 3 years, $35 million with the Clippers
ERIC GORDON: 4 years, $53 million with the Rockets
WESLEY JOHNSON: 3 years, $18 million with the Clippers
JAMES ENNIS: 2 years, $6 million with Grizzlies
ANDREW NICHOLSON: 4 years, $26 million with Wizards
TYLER JOHNSON: 4 years, $50 million with Nets, Heat match
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
GARRETT TEMPLE: 3 years, $24 million with Kings
TOMAS SATORANSKY: 3 years, $9 million with Wizards
JAMAL CRAWFORD: 3 years, $42 million with Clippers
RAJON RONDO: 2 years, $28 million with Bulls
MALCOLM DELANEY: 2 years with Hawks
MATT BARNES: 2 years, $12 million with Kings
DWIGHT POWELL: 4 years, $37 million with Mavericks
DERON WILLIAMS: 1 year, $10 million with Mavericks
TARIK BLACK: 2 years, $12.5 million with Lakers
RAMON SESSIONS: 2 years, $12.5 million with Hornets
SHAUN LIVINGSTON: 1 year, $5.8 million option picked up by Warriors
SERGIO RODRIGUEZ: 1 year, $8 million with 76ers
HARRISON BARNES: 4 years, $94 million with Mavericks
PAU GASOL: 2 years, $30+ million with Spurs
BRANDON JENNINGS: 1 year, $5 million with Knicks
LUC RICHARD MBAH A MOUTE: 2 years, $4.5 million with Clippers
ZAZA PACHULIA: 1 year, $2.9 million with Warriors
ROY HIBBERT: 1 year, $5 million with Hornets
LANCE THOMAS: 4 years, $27 million with Knicks
SETH CURRY: 2 years, $6 million with Mavericks
DIRK NOWITZKI: 2 years, $50 million with Mavericks
GERALD HENDERSON: 2 years, $18 million with 76ers
DAVID WEST: 1 year, $1.55 million vs. Warriors
MINDAUGAS KUZMINSKAS: 2 years, $6 million with Knicks
WILLY HERNANGOMEZ: TBD with Knicks
JASON SMITH: 3 years, $16 million with Wizards
NENE: 1 year, $2.9 million with Rockets
BRANDON RUSH: 1 year, $3.5 million with Timberwolves
BRIAN ROBERTS: 1 year, $1.05 million with Hornets
LANGSTON GALLOWAY: 2 years, $10-12 million with Pelicans
RICHARD JEFFERSON: 2 years, $5 million with Cavaliers
LEANDRO BARBOSA: 2 years, $8 million with Suns
BOBAN MARJANOVIC: 3 years, $21 million with Pistons
DEWAYNE DEDMON: 2 years $6 million with Spurs
MANU GINOBILI: 1 year, $14 million with Spurs
MARCELO HUERTAS: 2 years with the Lakers
AMIR JOHNSON: Celtics picked up player option
IAN CLARK: 1 year deal with the Warriors
FESTUS EZELI: 2 years, $15 million with the Trail Blazers
ALLEN CRABBE: 4 years, $75 million with Nets, Trail Blazers match
MARREESE SPEIGHTS: Minimum contract with the Clippers
TROY DANIELS: 3 years, $10 million with the Grizzlies
DERRICK WILLIAMS: 1 year, $5 million with Heat
TIM FRAZIER: 2 years, $4 million with Pelicans
WAYNE ELLINGTON: 2 years, $12 million with Heat
MARCUS THORNTON: 1 year, minimum with Wizards
JAMES MCADOO: 1 year, minimum with Warriors
JAMES JOHNSON: 1 year, $4 million with Heat
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
WILLIE REED: 2 years, minimum with Heat
JARRETT JACK: 1 year, minimum with Hawks
UDONIS HASLEM: 1 year, $4 million with Heat
GREIVIS VASQUEZ: 1 year, $5 million with the Nets
JARED SULLINGER: 1 year, $6 million with Raptors
KRIS HUMPHRIES: 1 year, $4 million with Hawks
SASHA VUJACIC: 1 year, minimum with Knicks
LUIS SCOLA: 1 year with Nets
CHRISTIAN WOOD: 2 years with Hornets
JONATHAN GIBSON: 3 years with Mavericks
PABLO PRIGIONI: 2 years, minimum with Rockets
JOE HARRIS: 2 years, $2 million with the Nets
MAURICE NDOUR: 2 years with the Knicks
ANTHONY BENNETT: 2 years, minimum with the Nets
RANDY FOYE: 1 year with the Nets
MANU GINOBILI: 1 year, $14 million with the Spurs
QUINCY ACY: 2 years, minimum with the Mavericks
RAYMOND FELTON: 1 year, minimum with the Clippers
TERRENCE JONES: 1 year, likely minimum with the Pelicans
DAVIS BERTANS: 2 years, $4 million with the Spurs
CHRIS ANDERSEN: 1 year, minimum with the Cavaliers
BRANDON BASS: 1 year, minimum with the Clippers
JORDAN HILL: 2 years, $8 million with Wolves
ANDERSON VAREJAO: 1 year, minimum with Warriors
ALEX ABRINES: 3 years, $18 million with Thunder
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks
AARON BROOKS: 1 year, $2.5 million with Pacers
MIKE MILLER: 2 years, $5 million with Nuggets
GERALD GREEN: 1 year, $1.4 million with Celtics
TYLER ZELLER: 2 years, $16 million with Celtics
ALONZO GEE: 1 year, minimum with Pelicans
NICOLAS BRUSSINO: 3 years, minimum with Mavericks
DION WAITERS: 1 year, $2.9 million with Heat
MAURICE HARKLESS: 4 years, $40 million with Blazers
DAVID LEE: 2 years, $3.2 million with Spurs
KEVIN SERAPHIN: 2 years, $3.6 million with Pacers

[Miranda-Kerr]

Can we bring back Al Jefferson so he can fight it out with Horford to determine who's the real big Al?

[Bucketgetter]

Not a shocker that a rebuilding team would need their most expensive player.

What shocks me is how Danny hasn't filled in some of the problems relating to defense/rebounding down low.

They should have gone after Bogut or someone similar (Tyson Chandler).

Never heard of a rebuilding 2nd seed but ok...

[Csfan1984]

The team is fine. Horford has his moments which does help the team overall but let's face it our bench bigs blow.

[Snakehead]

Horford has his moments

Like most every possession?

It's clear to see he's a big part of the team.  People keep trying to convince themselves otherwise to fit their narratives.  A big man out there putting up 10 assist games is actually really good.

If you watch screens, passing, spacing, etc it's clear to see he is a huge part of this team.

[Csfan1984]

Horford has his moments

Like most every possession?

It's clear to see he's a big part of the team.  People keep trying to convince themselves otherwise to fit their narratives.  A big man out there putting up 10 assist games is actually really good.

If you watch screens, passing, spacing, etc it's clear to see he is a huge part of this team.

I'd say 60% of the possessions . Not more than that. I just don't see him going hard enough or getting dirty. He plays like a guy well past his prime. Some heady plays but no energy and hustle for anything over 10 min per a time. Just disappears.

[mr. dee]

28 million on 3 guys gets you Amir, KO, and Jerebko.  Not seeing how that helps.

For a good part of the game last night I thought we played really well, great ball movement and defense.  We just couldn't hit wide open shots.  Then Crawford got hot and things fell apart.  Horford certainly would have helped, but sometimes **** just happens.

Good news is we can use their cap hold to replace them with better talent this off season. But we have to fill the roster with minimum guys and kids on rookie contracts.

[Csfan1984]

28 million on 3 guys gets you Amir, KO, and Jerebko.  Not seeing how that helps.

For a good part of the game last night I thought we played really well, great ball movement and defense.  We just couldn't hit wide open shots.  Then Crawford got hot and things fell apart.  Horford certainly would have helped, but sometimes **** just happens.

Good news is we can use their cap hold to replace them with better talent this off season. But we have to fill the roster with minimum guys and kids on rookie contracts.

Team does have a lot of picks to add those cheap contracts and rookies

[Snakehead]

28 million on 3 guys gets you Amir, KO, and Jerebko.  Not seeing how that helps.

For a good part of the game last night I thought we played really well, great ball movement and defense.  We just couldn't hit wide open shots.  Then Crawford got hot and things fell apart.  Horford certainly would have helped, but sometimes **** just happens.

Good news is we can use their cap hold to replace them with better talent this off season. But we have to fill the roster with minimum guys and kids on rookie contracts.

We have so many picks the next few years, and even two stash players this last year, so it shouldn't be much of an issue to go this route.  I think Zizic seems ready to play day 1 and I think Yab could contribute as well.

[KGs Knee]

Horford has his moments

Like most every possession?

It's clear to see he's a big part of the team.  People keep trying to convince themselves otherwise to fit their narratives.  A big man out there putting up 10 assist games is actually really good.

If you watch screens, passing, spacing, etc it's clear to see he is a huge part of this team.

People get too caught up in basic counting stats. It makes sense, as for most of NBA history there really weren't many other ways to quantify individual performance.

But that's not true anymore. We have a number of ways to quantify individual performance and impact beyond just basic stats. Some of the advanced metrics are worthless though, and it makes it hard to sift through what is out there.

Horford really does seem to be one of those guys that just makes his team better. Many advanced stats back this claim up. His passing, and screens are so timely he makes everyone else's job much easier. And the thing is, I think he should actually get better as he learns Stevens' system better and vows in his role here. Stevens has been playing Horford in a way he has really ever played. Horford has never been this big of a focal point offensively from the perimeter, particularly in his facilitator role.

Yes, obviously it's more stark when his backups are pretty weak as a group, but just watching how less fluid the team is when he is not on the court.

[Androslav]

Our best big man, yeah, he does mean a lot to the club. Also, no way IT scores 30 ppg without his signing, Crowder shoots 40 % from downtown, and forget about the 2nd seed. He was always a great signing, costing us nothing but cap space. He fitted immediately and his mental makeup fits with all good and ambitious players.