Celtics (40-22) at Suns (20-42) Game #63 3/5/17

[Tr1boy]

So IT throws JAE under the bus?!!!! $@#%$#%$#%#%$#%#!!!!

where did you see this?

His interview now on CSNNE

What did he say?

He said he thought Jae would in ball the ball to him sooner and that he didn't know what he was thinking, but by time he got the ball Criss was right there to cause the turnover. He took no responsibility whatsoever.

Ridiculous. That was clearly IT's fault. You don't let the ball roll like that to avoid time coming off the clock when you're in traffic like that, let alone him missing the crucial free throw that would've won us the game anyways. If he wants to be a max contract star leader of this team, then these kind of "blame games" can't happen. KG and Pierce would've been the first to say "my bad" in this type of situation.

It's becoming more and more difficult for me to justify maxing IT out. Yes, he's an absolutely fantastic scorer, but he's not the leader he needs to be and doesn't play the right way way too often, along with being an absolutely atrocious defender, even if he does try on that side of the ball. Hopefully we can land someone like Fultz this summer and he looks ready to start and contribute from the get-go.

Even the IT apologists have to acknowledge that there's becoming more and more reasons to not max out IT long-term, from his suspect leadership abilities to his questionable decision-making to his atrocious defense.

IT4 is no leader... He is a "me" player

There are pros/cons to this

[hodgy03038]

To change the subject a little bit....


I am still scratching my head over the replay that the officials looked at completely after a play had taken place. The ball was inbounded to Smart and the Celts came down and Crowder made that great layup high off the backboard and there was a foul. Prior to shooting the foul they are looking at the replay oif the inbound pass and Smart. How can they do that well after a subsequent play and score? What if they called some sort of flagrant on the inbound – would they have taken away the basket AND foul and given the Suns foul shots and the ball. It doesn’t make any sense to me. It would be like in football throwing the red challenge flag out after a subsequent play. It just can’t happen.

[Tr1boy]

Is it just me or did immediately after that last basket IT look back at Crowder like it was his fault?  It would confirm what I suspect of him as a teammate, so figure I'm not the best one to answer this question.

That was bad

anyone have a video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eflT88bhII

Can kind of see it here barely at the bottom of screen.

IT basically confirmed this in his postgame interview. As soon as he was asked about the turnover, the first words to come out his mouth included Jae.

Figured he would.  I have always pegged him as the type of guy who would do this.  Was hoping I was wrong.  Guess not.

It p---ed me off to the point that all my set with this team with the way its constructed. IT is an awesome player but he doesn't appear to get the same treatment the other guys do. I can't respect that. I just want to see Smart and Jaylen get better, who in my mind should be getting just as many looks as IT now.

I think it was the Atlanta or Cleveland game when IT was barking at Jaylen over a somewhat silly, but not overly costly defensive foul.  IT, who last I checked was 88th/88 point guards in defensive rpm.  I'm just totally over him.  Plays for himself first, to win second, and his teammate's last.  Would love to see Crowder grab him by the throat and ask him whose fault the turnover was.

Dont worry we are 1-3 now since the all star break

88/88 ...sigh

[jpotter33]

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/838561554106703872

Here's the actual full quote from IT. Clearly blames it on Crowder without taking any of the blame himself, let alone not mentioning his crucial missed free throw. This guy is not the leader we need.

Does anyone really think that Crowder, AB, Al, Smart, or Brown wouldn't readily accept blame for this loss if they were in IT's position? I can't see any of them passing off the blame like this.

[BlackCeltic]

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/838561554106703872

Here's the actual full quote from IT. Clearly blames it on Crowder without taking any of the blame himself, let alone not mentioning his crucial missed free throw. This guy is not the leader we need.

Does anyone really think that Crowder, AB, Al, Smart, or Brown wouldn't readily accept blame for this loss if they were in IT's position? I can't see any of them passing off the blame like this.

Thank you for posting. Im even more p---ed because Coach Stephens isn't going to do anything about it.

[CelticSince83]

https://twitter.com/ESPNForsberg/status/838561554106703872

Here's the actual full quote from IT. Clearly blames it on Crowder without taking any of the blame himself, let alone not mentioning his crucial missed free throw. This guy is not the leader we need.

Does anyone really think that Crowder, AB, Al, Smart, or Brown wouldn't readily accept blame for this loss if they were in IT's position? I can't see any of them passing off the blame like this.

Thank you for posting. Im even more p---ed because Coach Stephens isn't going to do anything about it.

I'm actually surprised IT didn't rattle off his points per game average and how Jae just needs to know what time IT is. 

[Somebody]

Guys calm down he explicitly said "not saying it was his fault" and "we" regarding the turnover. Stop over reacting.

[nickagneta]

Don't get the hate against IT here. We complained for years we needed a star, got one for next to nothing, he becomes a 2 time All-Star, has an MVP caliber season, and people take every opportunity to take shots at him. I just don't get it.

[jpotter33]

Guys calm down he explicitly said "not saying it was his fault" and "we" regarding the turnover. Stop over reacting.

Uh, no. You can't rant about how Jae didn't get it off to you in time and you not being sure what he was thinking, then casually say "but it's not his fault" as a qualifier. I can go off on a diatribe and criticize you incessantly then try to qualify that by saying "but not trying to criticize you," but that doesn't mean I'm actually not criticizing you. It just means that I'm trying to walk back something that I said.

That was CLEARLY a bad TO on IT, not Jae, and everyone in the basketball world is saying the same thing and kind of making fun of the fact that IT is saying it was Jae's fault/TO. As the leader of the team, he should've admitted his fault and moved on. It happens to everyone, even the best players, so it's not like it's a big deal.

But the fact that he passed blame onto Jae without mentioning his own fumble OR his missed game-winning free throw just shows that he's not leadership material.

[Tr1boy]

Don't get the hate against IT here. We complained for years we needed a star, got one for next to nothing, he becomes a 2 time All-Star, has an MVP caliber season, and people take every opportunity to take shots at him. I just don't get it.

Because he is "selfish"... he threw Crowder under the bus tonight ...took no responsibility for the down the stretch self destruction

When you compare a guy like KG vs IT4 it's night and the day difference when it comes to professionalism and team 1st mentality

IT4 has some growing up to do if he wants to be a leader of this team

[cltc5]

Getting increasingly tired of IT.  From his refusal to be a 6th man to his it's all about me attitude.  I've said it before might be time to trade him so we can actually build a team.  I thought we got rid of rondo

[CelticSince83]

Guys calm down he explicitly said "not saying it was his fault" and "we" regarding the turnover. Stop over reacting.

Uh, no. You can't rant about how Jae didn't get it off to you in time and you not being sure what he was thinking, then casually say "but it's not his fault" as a qualifier. I can go off on a diatribe and criticize you incessantly then try to qualify that by saying "but not trying to criticize you," but that doesn't mean I'm actually not criticizing you. It just means that I'm trying to walk back something that I said.

That was CLEARLY a bad TO on IT, not Jae, and everyone in the basketball world is saying the same thing and kind of making fun of the fact that IT is saying it was Jae's fault/TO. As the leader of the team, he should've admitted his fault and moved on. It happens to everyone, even the best players, so it's not like it's a big deal.

But the fact that he passed blame onto Jae without mentioning his own fumble OR his missed game-winning free throw just shows that he's not leadership material.

Exactly.  I have no problem with him making a mistake, it happens.  It's how he handled it.  The fact that IT is an All-Star and the starting point guard is what makes this type of attitude so problematic. 

[CelticSooner]

Don't get the hate against IT here. We complained for years we needed a star, got one for next to nothing, he becomes a 2 time All-Star, has an MVP caliber season, and people take every opportunity to take shots at him. I just don't get it.

I'm hot or cold on him. I look at him as a better version of Rondo when Rondo was actually good. Nice piece but not someone to build around. C's need him to play great every night is the biggest problem though.

Where's the heat on Crowder and his weak D on Bledsoe? Not the first time he's been beaten to the hoop in a big moment.

[jpotter33]

Don't get the hate against IT here. We complained for years we needed a star, got one for next to nothing, he becomes a 2 time All-Star, has an MVP caliber season, and people take every opportunity to take shots at him. I just don't get it.

Well, first, because he's got significant holes in his game that makes it extremely difficult for him to be the centerpiece of any team. For as good as he is on offense (MVP level), he's nearly as deficient on defense. We only outscore opponents by .9 points per 100 possessions when IT is on the floor, which is crazy given the offensive year he is having. Further, he has very suspect decision-making at times, especially lately, because he sometimes lacks trust of his teammates and tries to force too much.

Second, being a star and leader of a team entails more responsibility than a role player, which means that your errors and weaknesses will be given more attention and scrutiny. That's the price of admission. If IT wants all this star attention, then he has to take the extra responsibility that comes with it. This is the same thing that happens to all the stars across the league. IT is no different.

I've never understood why many on this blog feel that you cannot criticize IT because he's our "star" and best player. Do people not see the significant holes in his game? Why do people get chided when they criticize IT for legitimate reasons? We're not talking about Lebron James here. We're talking about a star that while he's probably a top-5 or so offensive player in the league, he's almost certainly a bottom 5 worst defender in the league, along with having questionable decision-making abilities.

As long as you give him the credit when it is due, I think it's more than fair to criticize his weak areas and question whether or not he's really worth maxing out and building our team around.

[nickagneta]

Don't get the hate against IT here. We complained for years we needed a star, got one for next to nothing, he becomes a 2 time All-Star, has an MVP caliber season, and people take every opportunity to take shots at him. I just don't get it.

Well, first, because he's got significant holes in his game that makes it extremely difficult for him to be the centerpiece of any team. For as good as he is on offense (MVP level), he's nearly as deficient on defense. We only outscore opponents by .9 points per 100 possessions when IT is on the floor, which is crazy given the offensive year he is having. Further, he has very suspect decision-making at times, especially lately, because he sometimes lacks trust of his teammates and tries to force too much.

Second, being a star and leader of a team entails more responsibility than a role player, which means that your errors and weaknesses will be given more attention and scrutiny. That's the price of admission. If IT wants all this star attention, then he has to take the extra responsibility that comes with it. This is the same thing that happens to all the stars across the league. IT is no different.

I've never understood why many on this blog feel that you cannot criticize IT because he's our "star" and best player. Do people not see the significant holes in his game? Why do people get chided when they criticize IT for legitimate reasons? We're not talking about Lebron James here. We're talking about a star that while he's probably a top-5 or so offensive player in the league, he's almost certainly a bottom 5 worst defender in the league, along with having questionable decision-making abilities.

As long as you give him the credit when it is due, I think it's more than fair to criticize his weak areas and question whether or not he's really worth maxing out and building our team around.

jp, I am not talking about you. You have consistently criticized IT and brought up good arguments with stats to back your points. I don't agree with them but you only critique and question.

But clearly you can see the difference between your criticisms and the vehement, hateful tone of many others that come out of the woodwork and use losses to rip apart IT then disappear and say nothing when the Cs are winning 14 of 16 games with IT carrying the team? Its those that people my post was directed at.