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If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« on: February 16, 2017, 01:52:29 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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THEN WHO IS?

And before you bring up Isaiah Thomas not playing great defense (valid point), James Harden plays no defense, Curry and Irving don't play great defense, and Westbrook isn't really known for his defense either.

Now are you really about to tell me those players aren't legit stars/superstars?

It's baffling seeing all these "Is IT worth the max" statements around here, because like it or not he's getting close to max at the very least (and he DESERVES it).

He's also averaging 6 assists a game (that's pretty good), and given his size he's still averaging 3-4 rebounds a game too. More importantly, he's playing as "our closer" and more often than not is getting it done, AND without him you could say this team is a low 7-8 seed (yes, he makes THAT much of a difference).

You see all these albatross contracts out there around the league, and that's how the market is now. Is Conley really worth the max? Is Mozgov worth 4/65? Evan Turner 4/75?

If he scores 20+ tonight, he will break the franchise record held by Havlicek with 41 straight games scoring 20+ (nothing to scoff at and it's certainly no "small sample size").

Now my hope is IT sort of takes Tom Brady's approach, and accepts an extension that is a little less than max, if it means some cap flexibility and being able to bring some more talent to this team.

I predict Ainge extends IT and Smart, while Bradley is the "odd man out" here.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 02:02:14 PM »

Offline MasterEmile

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I think the worry with committing long term with Thomas is the simple question of "can he keep it up after he loses a step of his athleticism" which is a very valid question for a person his size.

If the answer is yes then I think the 2nd leading scorer in the NBA deserves the max.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 02:18:48 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

He is limited defensively...

He has a near perfect supporting cast (with stretch bigs everywhere)... To get his game going

Instead of paying IT4 max, pay him similar money that horford is receiving and add one more play like these two

That is fair
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 02:29:48 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Quote from: triboy16f on February 16, 2017, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

He is limited defensively...

He has a near perfect supporting cast (with stretch bigs everywhere)... To get his game going

Instead of paying IT4 max, pay him similar money that horford is receiving and add one more play like these two

That is fair

It's not "fair", in that the NBA's market value is that very good players get the max.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 02:34:22 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:29:48 PM
Quote from: triboy16f on February 16, 2017, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

He is limited defensively...

He has a near perfect supporting cast (with stretch bigs everywhere)... To get his game going

Instead of paying IT4 max, pay him similar money that horford is receiving and add one more play like these two

That is fair

It's not "fair", in that the NBA's market value is that very good players get the max.

Well life is not fair   :laugh:

There is no reason why IT4 should make 35 million a season while Smart for example makes 15-18
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 02:36:01 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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He's played himself into a max contract and deserves to be paid ands one of the best guards/players in the league.

Their best best at getting him at discount would be to try and extend him this summer. Might get lucky and shave off a few mil per.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 02:42:01 PM by PAOBoston »
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 02:36:01 PM »

Offline jbpats

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As I mentioned he IS a max player, I just don't think he is the right max player for Boston.

1) He will be 30 by the time he signs his max deal. Ask yourself do we want a 5'9" (really 5'7") PG tying up our books until he is 35?
2) PG is the most abundant position in the NBA and soon to be the most abundant position on our team. See point #1.. we are about to get either Fultz or Ball, how will they develop if we have Thomas for 6 years after we draft them? What's the point of even keeping the pick if the plan is to sign Thomas to a long term max deal?

The little guy has earned his money, and I HOPE he gets it, I just really hope it's not from us. I love IT, and he has been a blast to watch but at the end of the day I want to win a championship. As good of a feel good story IT is, I just realistically don't think he gets us there.
Plan on the next two years being top 2 picks, and build around Jalen, Ball/Fultz and whatever 2018 may bring. Let the rest fall into place, don't handicap our future by feeling the obligation to sign Thomas.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 02:36:45 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

Yes. Absolutely he will and he deserves it. Apart from durability entering his 30s in this new contract, the question to be answered is another:

The max here? In a contending team? Can we win the NBA title with a 5'9" player likely to be abused defensively comes playoff time? It's very tough to answer, for me. Reason and heart may get into a conflict.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2017, 02:43:03 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Quote from: Phantom255x on February 16, 2017, 01:52:29 PM
And before you bring up Isaiah Thomas not playing great defense (valid point), James Harden plays no defense, Curry and Irving don't play great defense, and Westbrook isn't really known for his defense either.

The problem with IT is that Curry, Harden, Westbrook or Irving can be average defenders if they put their effort into it, when playoffs come.

IT simply can't, and I don't need to tell you why.

As they say, offense wins games; defense wins championships. Ask Adelman's Kings or D'Antoni's Suns.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2017, 02:53:07 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Quote from: Darío SpanishFan on February 16, 2017, 02:43:03 PM
Quote from: Phantom255x on February 16, 2017, 01:52:29 PM
And before you bring up Isaiah Thomas not playing great defense (valid point), James Harden plays no defense, Curry and Irving don't play great defense, and Westbrook isn't really known for his defense either.

The problem with IT is that Curry, Harden, Westbrook or Irving can be average defenders if they put their effort into it, when playoffs come.

IT simply can't, and I don't need to tell you why.

As they say, offense wins games; defense wins championships. Ask Adelman's Kings or D'Antoni's Suns.

Yes and yes

But maybe IT4 can defy the odds and pull an Iverson

Another guy not so interested in playing good defense but took his team to the finals

If IT4 cant carry the Celts past the 1st round of the playoffs this season,  how is it justified he receives max of max?
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2017, 02:56:12 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

Two votes here.

One of the most absurd debates ever on this board.

Pay him, Wyc. Now.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2017, 03:03:00 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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What people need to understand is that guys like LeBron and KD are overwhelmingly underpaid. 

Because of that, it's true, some guys making $20-30 million a year get more than they would in a system that didn't restrict annual salary.  But most of the players that earn those contracts are actually worth that amount, they just seem overpaid because the players that are clearly better than them, i.e. the MVP candidates who impact the game in a huge way on both ends, are not allowed to make more money.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2017, 03:04:03 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Quote from: triboy16f on February 16, 2017, 02:34:22 PM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:29:48 PM
Quote from: triboy16f on February 16, 2017, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: Roy H. on February 16, 2017, 02:06:54 PM
I think it's an absurd debate. To me, he's obviously going to get the max, and he's earned it.

He is limited defensively...

He has a near perfect supporting cast (with stretch bigs everywhere)... To get his game going

Instead of paying IT4 max, pay him similar money that horford is receiving and add one more play like these two

That is fair

It's not "fair", in that the NBA's market value is that very good players get the max.

Well life is not fair   :laugh:

There is no reason why IT4 should make 35 million a season while Smart for example makes 15-18

Except that he's much more productive and his level of skill and talent is much more difficult to replace.
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Re: If Isaiah Thomas Isn't Worth The Max Or Near Max ($25-30M/Year)...
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2017, 03:04:53 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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He's worth it, absolutely.

The question is, will we give it to him? I'd say probably, but Danny will likely try to finagle some concessions or salary flexibility. I don't think we're enthused about paying him ~30 mill as he crosses over 30, but I don't see many other options; we're not likely to let him go elsewhere unless there's a major injury, he's much too popular.
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