What does this Celtics team need?

[flybono]

7 11 vs Playoff Teams says it all

Talent!

[Smitty77]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

I agree 100%.  I'm taking BOS over TOR 10/10 times.  Unfortunately in a head to head tho Lowry and Derozan are too big and too physical for AB and IT

IMO:  1) BOS is the better team now.
2) Again I love AB but unfortunately I dont think AB is the right backcourt pairing with IT because you have two undersized guards.  This matters a lot in a league where 75% of teams have elite pg's/pg's who are the best player on their team; BOS has an attractive trade piece in AB
3) BOS has Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown who get better every game

Not gonna lie though Im really disappointed that in a game with so much significance; Jonas Valancunis (or however you spell it) got the better of Al Horford

Sullinger was signed to be Toronto's starting PF and he hasn't played a game all year. 

Boston has lost 5 of 6 to Toronto and finished with a worse record every season since the 12/13 season.  Toronto was in the final 4 teams last year, pushed Cleveland to 6 games in the ECF, and is a better team this year then they were last year. 

Boston will not beat Toronto in a 7 game series, because Boston cannot stop Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanuciunas over the course of a 7 game series.  The guards are just too big and strong for Thomas, Bradley, and Smart to handle and Boston has no one that can compete with Jonas down low.  Toronto also has a pretty solid bench so Boston can't even wear them down and take advantage of the bench like they do with many teams.

I love how you say that Boston WILL NOT beat Toronto in a 7 game series!!!  Give me a freaking break!!!  In the first game we had NO Thomas.  I know that you do NOT respect IT, but apparently the rest of the league does.  We lost to the AT their HOUSE without a first-team All-NBA defender and our second best scorer.  Would Toronto have won without their second leading scorer and without their back up center in Boston?  NO they would NOT have!!!!

Smitty77

[alewilliam789]

This Celtics basketball team needs more versatility at the wing position. It's easy to gameplan for us because it's all IT, Bradley coming off screens/spot ups, or our bigs popping out and hitting 3s.

    If you look at really good teams nowadays despite being good 3 point shooting and defensive squads they generally have two star/superstar level players that can make plays off the dribble for either themselves or their teammates.

Cleveland: Lebron/Kyrie
GS: Curry/Durant
Toronto: Lowry/Derozan
Washington when they were good: Beal/Wall
Portland: Lillard/McCollum
OKC when they went to the Finals: Westbrook/Durant
Miami's Heatles: Lebron/Wade


And countless more teams have this same tandem going. In today's game you win with ballhandlers that can create offense, shoot the 3 ball, and can defend while you can have your key role players and glue guys in the frontcourt.

Right now I think we have a key role player in Horford in the frontcourt and 1 playmaker in IT.


I'll name you two players that would make us a dangerously good basketball team for these reasons.

Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel


Jimmy Butler, unlike either Bradley and Crowder, is a player that can not only differ on the wing and hit jumpshots, but he can also take over a team's ball handling duties and make plays for an entire squad off the dribble. Not only that, but he can score on anyone and score in almost any ways whether it be coming off a screen like Bradley, off ball making cuts/spotting up, in iso situations, or even in the PNR. He would just add a depth to our offense that just doesn't exist and with his playmaking/passing abilities would create easier looks for IT.

Defensively he's a clear fit because 1. he isn't undersized for the position and can pretty much guard anyone from Lebron to Paul George which is an aspect we just don't have defensively right now and 2. he's a good defensive rebounder which is key for us considering how much we rely on our guards to rebound the basketball.


No need to really explain Noel it's pretty self explanatory at this point.

[spikelovetheCelts]

This Celtics basketball team needs more versatility at the wing position. It's easy to gameplan for us because it's all IT, Bradley coming off screens/spot ups, or our bigs popping out and hitting 3s.

    If you look at really good teams nowadays despite being good 3 point shooting and defensive squads they generally have two star/superstar level players that can make plays off the dribble for either themselves or their teammates.

Cleveland: Lebron/Kyrie
GS: Curry/Durant
Toronto: Lowry/Derozan
Washington when they were good: Beal/Wall
Portland: Lillard/McCollum
OKC when they went to the Finals: Westbrook/Durant
Miami's Heatles: Lebron/Wade


And countless more teams have this same tandem going. In today's game you win with ballhandlers that can create offense, shoot the 3 ball, and can defend while you can have your key role players and glue guys in the frontcourt.

Right now I think we have a key role player in Horford in the frontcourt and 1 playmaker in IT.


I'll name you two players that would make us a dangerously good basketball team for these reasons.

Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel


Jimmy Butler, unlike either Bradley and Crowder, is a player that can not only differ on the wing and hit jumpshots, but he can also take over a team's ball handling duties and make plays for an entire squad off the dribble. Not only that, but he can score on anyone and score in almost any ways whether it be coming off a screen like Bradley, off ball making cuts/spotting up, in iso situations, or even in the PNR. He would just add a depth to our offense that just doesn't exist and with his playmaking/passing abilities would create easier looks for IT.

Defensively he's a clear fit because 1. he isn't undersized for the position and can pretty much guard anyone from Lebron to Paul George which is an aspect we just don't have defensively right now and 2. he's a good defensive rebounder which is key for us considering how much we rely on our guards to rebound the basketball.


No need to really explain Noel it's pretty self explanatory at this point.

To get out of the second round bogut and Omri Casspi would do it.
Jimmy Butler and Noel get you to ECF.

[Ilikesports17]

This Celtics basketball team needs more versatility at the wing position. It's easy to gameplan for us because it's all IT, Bradley coming off screens/spot ups, or our bigs popping out and hitting 3s.

    If you look at really good teams nowadays despite being good 3 point shooting and defensive squads they generally have two star/superstar level players that can make plays off the dribble for either themselves or their teammates.

Cleveland: Lebron/Kyrie
GS: Curry/Durant
Toronto: Lowry/Derozan
Washington when they were good: Beal/Wall
Portland: Lillard/McCollum
OKC when they went to the Finals: Westbrook/Durant
Miami's Heatles: Lebron/Wade


And countless more teams have this same tandem going. In today's game you win with ballhandlers that can create offense, shoot the 3 ball, and can defend while you can have your key role players and glue guys in the frontcourt.

Right now I think we have a key role player in Horford in the frontcourt and 1 playmaker in IT.


I'll name you two players that would make us a dangerously good basketball team for these reasons.

Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel


Jimmy Butler, unlike either Bradley and Crowder, is a player that can not only differ on the wing and hit jumpshots, but he can also take over a team's ball handling duties and make plays for an entire squad off the dribble. Not only that, but he can score on anyone and score in almost any ways whether it be coming off a screen like Bradley, off ball making cuts/spotting up, in iso situations, or even in the PNR. He would just add a depth to our offense that just doesn't exist and with his playmaking/passing abilities would create easier looks for IT.

Defensively he's a clear fit because 1. he isn't undersized for the position and can pretty much guard anyone from Lebron to Paul George which is an aspect we just don't have defensively right now and 2. he's a good defensive rebounder which is key for us considering how much we rely on our guards to rebound the basketball.


No need to really explain Noel it's pretty self explanatory at this point.

To get out of the second round bogut and Omri Casspi would do it.
Jimmy Butler and Noel get you to ECF.

getting out of the second round and getting to the ECF are the same thing.

[Chris22]

Sign Noel, draft Josh Jackson.

[Moranis]

I'm starting to think that people around here have hope that the Celtics will beat CLE or GSW. While it is admirable to not give in, I think there's a lot of time being wasted on Boogie, Gordon Hayward, blah blah blah.

To win the NBA championship, the Celtics will have to create a) a super team, or b) wait out Lebron's career and hope GSW can get old quickly/implode. I think the waiting game is more plausible. This works well for us, as we have tons of draft capital.

I suspect a lot of people are holding onto the notion that the Celts could go on a magical run without having one of the top names in the league, similar to what the Pistons did in '04 or what the Mavs did in '11.

I don't think that's entirely out of the question if Ainge continues to build and tinker with this group, though it's exceedingly unlikely, even just making the Finals.

Even so, the fact that the team probably won't beat Cleveland or Golden State anytime soon isn't a reason to give up on maximizing this group of players.  The Celts are set up very well to be a factor in the Eastern Conference playoff picture for the next 4-5 years, at a minimum.  Meanwhile, they have one of the best coaches in the league and multiple top draft picks coming their way.

It is a good spot to be in, even if it appears very unlikely they'll contend for a championship in the next few years.

Team isn't going to beat Toronto either.  They are clearly a better team than Boston is and will be for the foreseeable future without some fairly significant changes (obviously what Boston needs to catch Toronto is a lot less than what it needs to catch Cleveland, but there is still a significant enough gap to be noticeable).

Im not sure why you believe this.

Toronto's best 5, (Lowry, Derozan, Carroll, Valunciunas, PAtterson) have missed a combined 12 games. Bostons best 5 (Smart Bradley Thomas Crowder Horford) have missed a combined 28 games.

The Celtics are 2 games back of Toronto and have played them head to head twice.

In game 1, in Boston, Boston was sans Isaiah thomas, Toronto was without Carroll, Boston led at half but eventually lost by 7.

In game 2, Boston was without Avery Bradley, controlled the entire game and lost by 6.

It seems to me that Boston and Toronto are in the same tier. Advantage Toronto untill Boston proves something, but in a 7 game series Im picking the home team right now.

I agree 100%.  I'm taking BOS over TOR 10/10 times.  Unfortunately in a head to head tho Lowry and Derozan are too big and too physical for AB and IT

IMO:  1) BOS is the better team now.
2) Again I love AB but unfortunately I dont think AB is the right backcourt pairing with IT because you have two undersized guards.  This matters a lot in a league where 75% of teams have elite pg's/pg's who are the best player on their team; BOS has an attractive trade piece in AB
3) BOS has Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown who get better every game

Not gonna lie though Im really disappointed that in a game with so much significance; Jonas Valancunis (or however you spell it) got the better of Al Horford

Sullinger was signed to be Toronto's starting PF and he hasn't played a game all year. 

Boston has lost 5 of 6 to Toronto and finished with a worse record every season since the 12/13 season.  Toronto was in the final 4 teams last year, pushed Cleveland to 6 games in the ECF, and is a better team this year then they were last year. 

Boston will not beat Toronto in a 7 game series, because Boston cannot stop Lowry, DeRozan, and Valanuciunas over the course of a 7 game series.  The guards are just too big and strong for Thomas, Bradley, and Smart to handle and Boston has no one that can compete with Jonas down low.  Toronto also has a pretty solid bench so Boston can't even wear them down and take advantage of the bench like they do with many teams.

Uh you do know that the Celtics' bench has destroyed Toronto's bench in both matchups this season right? The first game the bench scoring was 32-17 Celtics and last night it was 36-20 Celtics and that makes the combined match-ups 68-37. I'm actually almost positive that during both games at the time when the Celtics gained huge leads against Toronto it was because the Celtics bench was eating up Toronto's. Not to mention both times these two have played, the guy who I think is our best player off the bench, Marcus Smart, was starting, so I think the whole, "Celtics' bench can't take advantage of Toronto's" is a totally false narrative.

More importantly, I'd love to see how Toronto fares against the Celtics when both teams are fully healthy. First game we didn't have Isaiah Thomas. Second game we didn't have Avery Bradley and yet both games were pretty close. I think the gap's a little closer than you think.

The +- numbers don't support the idea that Boston went on a run with its bench.  In the first game Boston's 5 bench players were a combined -15 and in the second game the 5 bench players were a combined -2.  The first game Toronto's 4 bench players were combined +6 (all of the negative was Joseph who was -15) and in the second game Toronto's 5 bench players were pretty bad at -19.  Now obviously that isn't a perfect way of looking at things, but it does show that the benches were about even.  Toronto also generally has more defensive oriented players on its bench so using points scored isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. 

[Rosco917]

Find a way to sign Noel, we'll finally have an athletic center, that gets off the ground quickly, defends 3 positions, he'll spell relief for Horford on the D end of the floor, and protect the rim. Noel has good "quick twitch," no big we have on the roster has his type of quickness. He'll be a great target for IT and Smart for lob passes. He'll score 11-12 a game seeing 30-33 minutes a game, and grow from there.

Look for a "star" shooting guard, or small forward to sign or trade for. A guy that can take some of the scoring pressure off of Thomas on a consistent basis.

Draft a Power forward to develop behind Horford. 

[Bobshot]

My kingdom for a rebounder!

[chiken Green]

Bobby Portis and Devin Booker..

[tarheelsxxiii]

Bobby Portis and Devin Booker..

I agree. Booker is too good to be traded, though. 

[Boris Badenov]

Bobby Portis and Devin Booker..

I agree. Booker is too good to be traded, though.

If Booker were on the Celtics right now, whose minutes would he get?

[PAOBoston]

This Celtics basketball team needs more versatility at the wing position. It's easy to gameplan for us because it's all IT, Bradley coming off screens/spot ups, or our bigs popping out and hitting 3s.

    If you look at really good teams nowadays despite being good 3 point shooting and defensive squads they generally have two star/superstar level players that can make plays off the dribble for either themselves or their teammates.

Cleveland: Lebron/Kyrie
GS: Curry/Durant
Toronto: Lowry/Derozan
Washington when they were good: Beal/Wall
Portland: Lillard/McCollum
OKC when they went to the Finals: Westbrook/Durant
Miami's Heatles: Lebron/Wade


And countless more teams have this same tandem going. In today's game you win with ballhandlers that can create offense, shoot the 3 ball, and can defend while you can have your key role players and glue guys in the frontcourt.

Right now I think we have a key role player in Horford in the frontcourt and 1 playmaker in IT.


I'll name you two players that would make us a dangerously good basketball team for these reasons.

Jimmy Butler and Nerlens Noel


Jimmy Butler, unlike either Bradley and Crowder, is a player that can not only differ on the wing and hit jumpshots, but he can also take over a team's ball handling duties and make plays for an entire squad off the dribble. Not only that, but he can score on anyone and score in almost any ways whether it be coming off a screen like Bradley, off ball making cuts/spotting up, in iso situations, or even in the PNR. He would just add a depth to our offense that just doesn't exist and with his playmaking/passing abilities would create easier looks for IT.

Defensively he's a clear fit because 1. he isn't undersized for the position and can pretty much guard anyone from Lebron to Paul George which is an aspect we just don't have defensively right now and 2. he's a good defensive rebounder which is key for us considering how much we rely on our guards to rebound the basketball.


No need to really explain Noel it's pretty self explanatory at this point.

This. Times infinity

[Celtics4ever]

I think we need another scorer and a big that can do board and defend without hurting in other areas.   It would be nice if we could get the same thing in one package but those guys are rare.

[TrueFan]

7 11 vs Playoff Teams says it all

Talent!

I think that stat is over played. Look at the current trend. The team is trending upwards against better teams.

We are a far better team today then we were a month ago. I just hope we aren't peaking too soon.