Author Topic: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act  (Read 19104 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2017, 12:38:34 PM »

Offline BitterJim

  • NGT
  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9219
  • Tommy Points: 1239
I think the message is that we're better off waiting for Lebron to retire.

"I sure wish Red Auerbach had given up like the above," Wilt Chamberlain.

LOL.

Wilt was drafted after the Celtics had won 2 of the last 3 championships (and the year they didn't win, they still made the finals) and had the best team in the NBA (they were just starting their streak of 8 straight championships).  There's no comparison between the position Red and the Celtics were in in 1959 and where the Celtics are today

Also, even as fake quotes go, that one was pretty bad.  You should have gone with Kobe in '07 or something like that
I'm bitter.

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state. The other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people." - Commander Adams, Battlestar Galactica

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2017, 12:40:03 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 35261
  • Tommy Points: 1620

I think the author is too hung up in the "now".  It's also a bit selfish wishful thinking that he doesn't want it to be an arms race between GSW & CLE. Lastly, are we to expect TOR or BOS to react to the Korver deal as the watershed moment that "something must be done"?

Not quite sure this season represents an organizational crossroads, especially in Boston's case.  2017-18/Summer '18 represents much more of a crossroads when you start looking at the construction of the roster. 

Sure, Danny could just go ahead and make some cosmetic changes to the fringes of the roster.  Certainly doesn't need to go in big splash mode right now.

I don't think Danny is necessarily worried about some imaginary "disappointment" label.  This organization is far from plateauing at the moment.
I think his point was that Cleveland keeps making moves and tinkering with its team to get better.  He thinks this is Toronto's window so they need to do something now while they still have time and he clearly thinks Millsap will vault Toronto close to Cleveland.  The Raptors did take two games from the Cavs last year in the ECF.  They aren't theoretically that far behind especially if James starts to slow and/or Irving and Love continue to be banged up. 

Boston he put slightly differently than Toronto because of the Nets picks and because Thomas, Bradley, etc. are younger than Lowry, though Horford is not.  But he is right that Boston needs to win a playoff series this year, though I'm not sure they need to make any moves to do that.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2017, 12:44:02 PM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10318
  • Tommy Points: 352
I wonder how many people actually read the article and not just my headline.

First part was about the Cavs, but here is what it said about the Raptors and Celtics.


Now, will Ujiri and Ainge allow the Cavaliers to race further ahead, or will they, like Griffin, strike too?

For Toronto, there’s no debate: action is needed. Despite a trip to the 2016 East finals, two All-Star guards, a 24-11 record and a No. 2 ranked offense, the Raptors are now more two months into the season without a truly impressive victory. Dwane Casey’s team is not only 0-7 against the Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs and Clippers, but they gave up an average of 116 points in those losses.

Their backcourt firepower is simply insufficient to overcome their matchup problems in the frontcourt. Traditional center Jonas Valanciunas struggles to keep up against small-ball opponents, young bigs Bebe Nogueira and Pascal Siakham aren’t quite ready for primetime, Jared Sullinger still hasn’t touched the court yet this season, and Patrick Patterson can only fill so many minutes. Meaningful improvement will have to come from outside if Toronto hopes to compete with a frontline that includes James, Love and Tristan Thompson. 

But this isn’t simply a matter of positional balancing for the Raptors, this is an organizational crossroads. The past two seasons represent the golden era of the franchise’s history, in no small part because Kyle Lowry is in his prime. Lowry, 30, is headed for a massive pay increase as an unrestricted free agent next summer and then age-related decline not too long after that. This is Toronto’s shot. As the Raptors learned after Vince Carter’s departure, and then again after Chris Bosh’s relocation to South Beach, shots can sometimes take years and years to materialize. The Raptors need only turn to the 2012 Celtics, or the 2014 Pacers, or the 2015 Hawks to realize how quickly and firmly the window for contention can be shut.

To be clear, Toronto isn’t just praying talent lands in its lap. Ujiri is armed with a glut of young wings, headlined by Terrence Ross, and an extra first-round pick.

Boston, meanwhile, is similarly primed for onboarding talent. Last summer, Ainge scored a rare double victory: 1) he added Horford, an All-Star in his prime, and 2) he didn’t have to part with any major assets to do it. At the time, SI.com believed that adding Horford should be viewed as a precursor to whatever happened next. With a cache of young (and expendable) rotation players and too many future draft assets to count, Ainge can reasonably construct attractive trade packages for all but, say, the NBA’s top 15 stars and top-tier young prospects.

Perhaps the urgency is slightly less in Boston than in Toronto, given that Isaiah Thomas is younger than Lowry, the relative youth of the Celtics’ key cast members, and the treasure trove of quality picks that are being hand-delivered from the Nets. Regardless, this is a team and an organization that should be going for it: Brad Stevens has steadily rebuilt the Celtics, Thomas has made another big leap this season, and Horford, at 30 and with some major injury issues in his past, is ready to compete now.

After back-to-back empty trips to the postseason, Boston finds itself this year in much the same boat as Toronto last year: The honeymoon period is over and it’s time to win a series or shamefully don the “Disappointment” label. Like the Raptors, the Celtics are 0-5 against the Cavaliers, Warriors and Spurs, conceding an average of 115 points in the five losses. Like the Raptors, the Celtics could use some frontcourt help: Boston ranks near the bottom in rebounding rate, and its defense has regressed this season in part due to injury absences to key players like Horford and Jae Crowder.       

There’s one obvious answer for both Toronto and Boston, Atlanta’s Paul Millsap, and surely other options will emerge as the trade deadline gets closer. Millsap, a three-time All-Star and 2016 All-Defensive selection, would fit in with virtually any contender, given that he can score without dominating the ball, defend multiple positions, and function as either a power forward or a small ball five. In Toronto, he would plug Casey’s biggest positional hole and give the Raptors a much more intriguing small look. In Boston, he could reprise his pairing with Horford, giving Stevens a big upgrade at the four and giving Thomas another proven auxiliary scoring option.

With Korver gone, Millsap is the last remaining starter from the 2015 Hawks and it makes little sense to hang around given management’s ongoing retooling efforts. At 31, he is undoubtedly seeking one final major pay day next summer, but he would be foolish to tie himself to a Hawks franchise dumped Teague to avoid paying him, couldn’t convince Horford to re-sign, settled for Dwight Howard, and shopped Millsap last summer. That’s not just writing on the wall, that’s sprawling graffiti.

To be clear, though, for the Raptors and the Celtics this has become about more than than simply taking part in the inevitable Millsap auction. Indeed, the next six weeks or so are about whether Ujiri and Ainge are willing to roll the dice and improve rosters that clearly need improving. The Korver trade is the latest reminder that Cleveland is fully committed, whether it be luxury tax dollars or future assets, to defending its title. No doubt, Cleveland will look to address its other holes, perhaps an extra ball-handler, and Golden State will respond in kind, especially once buyout season rolls around.

There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

The Cavaliers and Warriors have both worked tirelessly to tinker with and perfect their rosters, even after both won titles and even though such efforts often come at great cost. It would be borderline infuriating if their arms race remains a two-team affair.   

I think the author of this article doesn't understand Danny Ainge.

I want to "win now" as much as anyone, but why go for broke when even your best effort is likely not enough to win the war?

Lately I've been coming to realize that perhaps the wisest course of action for Boston is to keep riding this nice little wave it has going—taking advantage, of course, of every opportunity (big or small) that shows itself along the way, but ultimately waiting to strike until the iron is hot: Namely, when LeBron's cooked. Especially given the fact that there's no "heir apparent" in the East for whenever LeBron has passed his prime.

Maybe the "heir" will be one of Boston's picks.
There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'

You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.

C.S. Lewis

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2017, 12:55:45 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34167
  • Tommy Points: 1617
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
It sounds like a plea from a sports writer who wants more stories to write. 



"Can these teams in the East the could be close do something so we can have more interesting headlines to drive clicks?"



Now I can see the Raptors feeling pressure to make a win now move at all costs because I don't think they have the possibility for franchise changing pieces coming to them from a bottom dweller like the Celtics have. 


But in the end, there are three ways this can go.   

The way we want is the patient GM who waits to make the right deal

or

The impatient GM that makes the first big deal they can not matter the likely outcome (hello post Ewing Knicks)

or

The scared GM that doesn't make moves until it is way to late.  (Hello Bulls)

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2017, 01:00:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16189
  • Tommy Points: 1407
I'm so confused why people are acting like getting a 35 year old korver has any impact on anything. Would people react the same if they signed Hollis Thompson?

Just wondering, do you watch the Cavs play? They need better shooting at the wing. Smith who starts shoots 36% from three. Shumpert is surprisingly shooting 38% from three. His career average is actually 34%. So there is a chance that dips. Korver is shooting 40% from three, and a lost of those threes are off screens and contested. Korver is actually shooting 49% from three when open.

So if you do the math, Korver will make an impact on spacing. You just can't leave him at all to try to stop Lebron from going to the paint.

I have watched the Cavs play a number of times. Thanks for the condescending question. Frye shoots 46%, Crowder is at 41% Bradley is at 40%. If they had gotten someone like Bradley or Crowder who was a two way shooter and a 40% shooter I think it could have had a huge impact.

So while Korver may hit some wide open 3's what is the impact on the Cavs defense when he is out there? You don't see defensive issues with both Irving and Korver out there as defenders?
Nobody has been able to answer my question of if they would have had the same response if the Cavs got Hollis Thompson yesterday instead. How much better is Korver than the corpse of James Jones? He is like the 12th oldest player in the NBA and has serious limitations that will get exposed in playoff basketball if he is relied on for serious minutes. I highly doubt he would play over Jr Smith, who despite shooting a tiny bit worse from 3, can create his own shot a lot better, is a lot more athletic and quick, can finish inside etc. I just have never seen 8 pages of discussion to what will amount to the 8th man on a healthy Cavs team.


Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8784
  • Tommy Points: 856
I wonder how many people actually read the article and not just my headline.

First part was about the Cavs, but here is what it said about the Raptors and Celtics.


Now, will Ujiri and Ainge allow the Cavaliers to race further ahead, or will they, like Griffin, strike too?

For Toronto, there’s no debate: action is needed. Despite a trip to the 2016 East finals, two All-Star guards, a 24-11 record and a No. 2 ranked offense, the Raptors are now more two months into the season without a truly impressive victory. Dwane Casey’s team is not only 0-7 against the Cavaliers, Warriors, Spurs and Clippers, but they gave up an average of 116 points in those losses.

Their backcourt firepower is simply insufficient to overcome their matchup problems in the frontcourt. Traditional center Jonas Valanciunas struggles to keep up against small-ball opponents, young bigs Bebe Nogueira and Pascal Siakham aren’t quite ready for primetime, Jared Sullinger still hasn’t touched the court yet this season, and Patrick Patterson can only fill so many minutes. Meaningful improvement will have to come from outside if Toronto hopes to compete with a frontline that includes James, Love and Tristan Thompson. 

But this isn’t simply a matter of positional balancing for the Raptors, this is an organizational crossroads. The past two seasons represent the golden era of the franchise’s history, in no small part because Kyle Lowry is in his prime. Lowry, 30, is headed for a massive pay increase as an unrestricted free agent next summer and then age-related decline not too long after that. This is Toronto’s shot. As the Raptors learned after Vince Carter’s departure, and then again after Chris Bosh’s relocation to South Beach, shots can sometimes take years and years to materialize. The Raptors need only turn to the 2012 Celtics, or the 2014 Pacers, or the 2015 Hawks to realize how quickly and firmly the window for contention can be shut.

To be clear, Toronto isn’t just praying talent lands in its lap. Ujiri is armed with a glut of young wings, headlined by Terrence Ross, and an extra first-round pick.

Boston, meanwhile, is similarly primed for onboarding talent. Last summer, Ainge scored a rare double victory: 1) he added Horford, an All-Star in his prime, and 2) he didn’t have to part with any major assets to do it. At the time, SI.com believed that adding Horford should be viewed as a precursor to whatever happened next. With a cache of young (and expendable) rotation players and too many future draft assets to count, Ainge can reasonably construct attractive trade packages for all but, say, the NBA’s top 15 stars and top-tier young prospects.

Perhaps the urgency is slightly less in Boston than in Toronto, given that Isaiah Thomas is younger than Lowry, the relative youth of the Celtics’ key cast members, and the treasure trove of quality picks that are being hand-delivered from the Nets. Regardless, this is a team and an organization that should be going for it: Brad Stevens has steadily rebuilt the Celtics, Thomas has made another big leap this season, and Horford, at 30 and with some major injury issues in his past, is ready to compete now.

After back-to-back empty trips to the postseason, Boston finds itself this year in much the same boat as Toronto last year: The honeymoon period is over and it’s time to win a series or shamefully don the “Disappointment” label. Like the Raptors, the Celtics are 0-5 against the Cavaliers, Warriors and Spurs, conceding an average of 115 points in the five losses. Like the Raptors, the Celtics could use some frontcourt help: Boston ranks near the bottom in rebounding rate, and its defense has regressed this season in part due to injury absences to key players like Horford and Jae Crowder.       

There’s one obvious answer for both Toronto and Boston, Atlanta’s Paul Millsap, and surely other options will emerge as the trade deadline gets closer. Millsap, a three-time All-Star and 2016 All-Defensive selection, would fit in with virtually any contender, given that he can score without dominating the ball, defend multiple positions, and function as either a power forward or a small ball five. In Toronto, he would plug Casey’s biggest positional hole and give the Raptors a much more intriguing small look. In Boston, he could reprise his pairing with Horford, giving Stevens a big upgrade at the four and giving Thomas another proven auxiliary scoring option.

With Korver gone, Millsap is the last remaining starter from the 2015 Hawks and it makes little sense to hang around given management’s ongoing retooling efforts. At 31, he is undoubtedly seeking one final major pay day next summer, but he would be foolish to tie himself to a Hawks franchise dumped Teague to avoid paying him, couldn’t convince Horford to re-sign, settled for Dwight Howard, and shopped Millsap last summer. That’s not just writing on the wall, that’s sprawling graffiti.

To be clear, though, for the Raptors and the Celtics this has become about more than than simply taking part in the inevitable Millsap auction. Indeed, the next six weeks or so are about whether Ujiri and Ainge are willing to roll the dice and improve rosters that clearly need improving. The Korver trade is the latest reminder that Cleveland is fully committed, whether it be luxury tax dollars or future assets, to defending its title. No doubt, Cleveland will look to address its other holes, perhaps an extra ball-handler, and Golden State will respond in kind, especially once buyout season rolls around.

There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

The Cavaliers and Warriors have both worked tirelessly to tinker with and perfect their rosters, even after both won titles and even though such efforts often come at great cost. It would be borderline infuriating if their arms race remains a two-team affair.   
We arent competing for a championship this year. The writer explains why Boston must improve by noting that we must win a playoff series or face the disappointment label. Korvers trade is entirely irrelevant in this regard. We wont face them in the first round and whether or not we acquire anyone we will more than likely lose to the Cavs in the first round.

The bolded explains his real motivation. The writer desperately want the Celtics to make a desperation move, because without it the East will be painfully boring come playoff time. Any neutral fan should want the Celtics to make this move too. However, the Celtics, they should not be at all affected by the Cavs increasing their margin of error over the rest of the East.

If you are OK with Phillys plan in the slightest, it seems unfair to criticize the Celtics here.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2017, 01:03:42 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Quote
There’s been plenty of frustrated chatter this season around the idea that the NBA is too top-heavy and that its two Superteams are headed for a third straight Finals showdown, and understandably so. But at least some of that venom should be saved for executives like Ujiri and Ainge, should they decide to sit on their hands and assets, playing for a future that may not come.

Is there a player outside of DMC who would significantly close that gap?

The Celtics are obviously trying to improve the team, but in a smart way. Wasting assets just to get out of the first round is foolish.

Surely it would generate more fodder for interesting articles if teams like the Raps and Celts went all-in so they could have some hope of competing with the top teams. 

When those teams inevitably fall short despite mortgaging their futures to compete now, writers like the author of this article can write about the hubris of executives attempting, against all evidence and reason, to compete with the superteams of the league.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2017, 01:04:43 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
I'm so confused why people are acting like getting a 35 year old korver has any impact on anything. Would people react the same if they signed Hollis Thompson?

Just wondering, do you watch the Cavs play? They need better shooting at the wing. Smith who starts shoots 36% from three. Shumpert is surprisingly shooting 38% from three. His career average is actually 34%. So there is a chance that dips. Korver is shooting 40% from three, and a lost of those threes are off screens and contested. Korver is actually shooting 49% from three when open.

So if you do the math, Korver will make an impact on spacing. You just can't leave him at all to try to stop Lebron from going to the paint.

I have watched the Cavs play a number of times. Thanks for the condescending question. Frye shoots 46%, Crowder is at 41% Bradley is at 40%. If they had gotten someone like Bradley or Crowder who was a two way shooter and a 40% shooter I think it could have had a huge impact.

So while Korver may hit some wide open 3's what is the impact on the Cavs defense when he is out there? You don't see defensive issues with both Irving and Korver out there as defenders?
Nobody has been able to answer my question of if they would have had the same response if the Cavs got Hollis Thompson yesterday instead. How much better is Korver than the corpse of James Jones? He is like the 12th oldest player in the NBA and has serious limitations that will get exposed in playoff basketball if he is relied on for serious minutes. I highly doubt he would play over Jr Smith, who despite shooting a tiny bit worse from 3, can create his own shot a lot better, is a lot more athletic and quick, can finish inside etc. I just have never seen 8 pages of discussion to what will amount to the 8th man on a healthy Cavs team.

I wasn't attempting to be condescending, i was genuinely curious. Cavs last year in the finals only had a 7 man rotation. They relied on Richard Jefferson a lot. They needed a deeper roster. That is why I was curious if you watched them because they are a really thin team.

As for Korver's defense, he played 28 minutes a game for the Hawks this year. I really think it isn't that difficult to hide him, nor do I think he is that awful at defense. Also, I think Kyrie is an average defender as well. I don't see him as a liability on that end tbh. But that's just my opinion.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2017, 01:07:18 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6927
  • Tommy Points: 821
I'm so confused why people are acting like getting a 35 year old korver has any impact on anything. Would people react the same if they signed Hollis Thompson?

Just wondering, do you watch the Cavs play? They need better shooting at the wing. Smith who starts shoots 36% from three. Shumpert is surprisingly shooting 38% from three. His career average is actually 34%. So there is a chance that dips. Korver is shooting 40% from three, and a lost of those threes are off screens and contested. Korver is actually shooting 49% from three when open.

So if you do the math, Korver will make an impact on spacing. You just can't leave him at all to try to stop Lebron from going to the paint.

I have watched the Cavs play a number of times. Thanks for the condescending question. Frye shoots 46%, Crowder is at 41% Bradley is at 40%. If they had gotten someone like Bradley or Crowder who was a two way shooter and a 40% shooter I think it could have had a huge impact.

So while Korver may hit some wide open 3's what is the impact on the Cavs defense when he is out there? You don't see defensive issues with both Irving and Korver out there as defenders?
Nobody has been able to answer my question of if they would have had the same response if the Cavs got Hollis Thompson yesterday instead. How much better is Korver than the corpse of James Jones? He is like the 12th oldest player in the NBA and has serious limitations that will get exposed in playoff basketball if he is relied on for serious minutes. I highly doubt he would play over Jr Smith, who despite shooting a tiny bit worse from 3, can create his own shot a lot better, is a lot more athletic and quick, can finish inside etc. I just have never seen 8 pages of discussion to what will amount to the 8th man on a healthy Cavs team.

I wasn't attempting to be condescending, i was genuinely curious. Cavs last year in the finals only had a 7 man rotation. They relied on Richard Jefferson a lot. They needed a deeper roster. That is why I was curious if you watched them because they are a really thin team.

As for Korver's defense, he played 28 minutes a game for the Hawks this year. I really think it isn't that difficult to hide him, nor do I think he is that awful at defense. Also, I think Kyrie is an average defender as well. I don't see him as a liability on that end tbh. But that's just my opinion.

Maybe, although one of the strengths of the Cavs roster was their ability to switch everything on defense.

The Warriors can attack from every position. They will iso Korver the entire time while he is in the game.

He is still an upgrade to Dunleavy, but I'm not sure he helps them win a championship.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2017, 01:14:18 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
I'm so confused why people are acting like getting a 35 year old korver has any impact on anything. Would people react the same if they signed Hollis Thompson?

Just wondering, do you watch the Cavs play? They need better shooting at the wing. Smith who starts shoots 36% from three. Shumpert is surprisingly shooting 38% from three. His career average is actually 34%. So there is a chance that dips. Korver is shooting 40% from three, and a lost of those threes are off screens and contested. Korver is actually shooting 49% from three when open.

So if you do the math, Korver will make an impact on spacing. You just can't leave him at all to try to stop Lebron from going to the paint.

I have watched the Cavs play a number of times. Thanks for the condescending question. Frye shoots 46%, Crowder is at 41% Bradley is at 40%. If they had gotten someone like Bradley or Crowder who was a two way shooter and a 40% shooter I think it could have had a huge impact.

So while Korver may hit some wide open 3's what is the impact on the Cavs defense when he is out there? You don't see defensive issues with both Irving and Korver out there as defenders?
Nobody has been able to answer my question of if they would have had the same response if the Cavs got Hollis Thompson yesterday instead. How much better is Korver than the corpse of James Jones? He is like the 12th oldest player in the NBA and has serious limitations that will get exposed in playoff basketball if he is relied on for serious minutes. I highly doubt he would play over Jr Smith, who despite shooting a tiny bit worse from 3, can create his own shot a lot better, is a lot more athletic and quick, can finish inside etc. I just have never seen 8 pages of discussion to what will amount to the 8th man on a healthy Cavs team.

I wasn't attempting to be condescending, i was genuinely curious. Cavs last year in the finals only had a 7 man rotation. They relied on Richard Jefferson a lot. They needed a deeper roster. That is why I was curious if you watched them because they are a really thin team.

As for Korver's defense, he played 28 minutes a game for the Hawks this year. I really think it isn't that difficult to hide him, nor do I think he is that awful at defense. Also, I think Kyrie is an average defender as well. I don't see him as a liability on that end tbh. But that's just my opinion.

Maybe, although one of the strengths of the Cavs roster was their ability to switch everything on defense.

The Warriors can attack from every position. They will iso Korver the entire time while he is in the game.

He is still an upgrade to Dunleavy, but I'm not sure he helps them win a championship.

You sir bring up a good point. I forgot about that.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2017, 01:15:44 PM »

Offline oldtype

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Tommy Points: 143
Korver literally cannot be on the floor against the Warriors.  He's just a plug-in for the regular season and the non-relevant part of the playoffs until JR recovers.


Great words from a great man

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2017, 01:24:20 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16189
  • Tommy Points: 1407
I'm so confused why people are acting like getting a 35 year old korver has any impact on anything. Would people react the same if they signed Hollis Thompson?

Just wondering, do you watch the Cavs play? They need better shooting at the wing. Smith who starts shoots 36% from three. Shumpert is surprisingly shooting 38% from three. His career average is actually 34%. So there is a chance that dips. Korver is shooting 40% from three, and a lost of those threes are off screens and contested. Korver is actually shooting 49% from three when open.

So if you do the math, Korver will make an impact on spacing. You just can't leave him at all to try to stop Lebron from going to the paint.

I have watched the Cavs play a number of times. Thanks for the condescending question. Frye shoots 46%, Crowder is at 41% Bradley is at 40%. If they had gotten someone like Bradley or Crowder who was a two way shooter and a 40% shooter I think it could have had a huge impact.

So while Korver may hit some wide open 3's what is the impact on the Cavs defense when he is out there? You don't see defensive issues with both Irving and Korver out there as defenders?
Nobody has been able to answer my question of if they would have had the same response if the Cavs got Hollis Thompson yesterday instead. How much better is Korver than the corpse of James Jones? He is like the 12th oldest player in the NBA and has serious limitations that will get exposed in playoff basketball if he is relied on for serious minutes. I highly doubt he would play over Jr Smith, who despite shooting a tiny bit worse from 3, can create his own shot a lot better, is a lot more athletic and quick, can finish inside etc. I just have never seen 8 pages of discussion to what will amount to the 8th man on a healthy Cavs team.

I wasn't attempting to be condescending, i was genuinely curious. Cavs last year in the finals only had a 7 man rotation. They relied on Richard Jefferson a lot. They needed a deeper roster. That is why I was curious if you watched them because they are a really thin team.

As for Korver's defense, he played 28 minutes a game for the Hawks this year. I really think it isn't that difficult to hide him, nor do I think he is that awful at defense. Also, I think Kyrie is an average defender as well. I don't see him as a liability on that end tbh. But that's just my opinion.

I'll take your word for it that you weren't trying to be condescending, but you have to realize most people will take it that way if you ask them if they have watched the defending national champions play. They are on national television the most of just about any team and were on national tv 25 times in the playoffs alone last year. I wouldn't be much of a basketball fan if I didn't manage to watch them.

Richard Jefferson, despite basically being even a little older than Korver, is aging a lot better than him and has less holes in his game. Jefferson can still play almost average defense and can do some ok finishing on the break. Also, as another poster pointed out if Korver is out there against the Warriors (which is almost certainly be who they would have to beat to reach their goals) who is he going to guard? Thompson, Durant? That will get really ugly quickly and in my opinion would offset whatever open 3's he could hit at a slightly higher clip than someone like Jefferson. (Also while Jefferson has slumped from 3 this year the last 2 years he was at 42 and 38%, perhaps he too is suffering from age just like Korver, but if he gets that up around 36% he has a decent amount to offer). 

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2017, 01:25:30 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16189
  • Tommy Points: 1407
Korver literally cannot be on the floor against the Warriors.  He's just a plug-in for the regular season and the non-relevant part of the playoffs until JR recovers.

Yes this is kind of my point. I have never seen SI an ESPN doing article for a guy that most likely will play extremely limited minutes in the playoffs and may not see the floor in the finals. Is it cause he made the allstar game a few years ago and had a historic shooting season? He is not that player any more.

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2017, 01:27:41 PM »

Offline Ed Hollison

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 625
  • Tommy Points: 196
I haven't seen any of the Hawks this year, but I agree that the panic over Korver might be getting out of control. Can you imagine the Cavs' defense with a lineup that includes Love, Korver, and Irving? The Warriors would absolutely torch them.

Ainge needs to be smart here and not reactionary. Is there a move out there that would truly allow you to compete with the likes of the Cavs, Warriors, and Spurs this year? If so, great. But don't trade any significant assets for a chance to come in 2nd.
"A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love."

http://fruittreeblog.com

Re: SI - Korver trade is a message to Celtics and Raptors to act
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2017, 01:28:38 PM »

Offline oldtype

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1677
  • Tommy Points: 143
Yeah I'd be a lot more "panicked" if the Cavs had gotten PJ Tucker or something.  Even then, what's the point in panicking given that we weren't in contention with them to begin with.


Great words from a great man