Hard times reading the ol' Cblog

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It seems like there are so many people on here who don't understand so many parts of what is going on at the moment. Some truly obvious things (to me anyway) need to be stated over and over again.

One thing LB33 is  good for is reminding everyone that you simply cannot win a ring without a superstar nowadays (Detroit was an anomaly that will probably never happen again), and despite Horford being reeeaaallly good (whether or not he is worth the money he got is not a completely stupid conversation, but it's pretty close to that) he is not a superstar.

We are not yet true ring contenders. We are a gritty, well coached team, with buckets of assets, just over three years removed from a complete teardown, with two years of playoff experience.

Pansies, softies, we are certainly not. Undersized, with streaky shooters we are.

Sorry, I just want to read more interesting stuff on here than the sky falling in.

trickybilly - We agree on most parts, and we are not on the same level as the Cavs, but it's not because we lack a "superstar."

We have to be 100% gelled, with everyone playing their role close to perfection to beat the Cavs. That, we are not. Our margin of error might be much smaller without a "superstar," but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Basketball is still a team game. When it comes down to it, team play will always beat individual play. The way the Raptors and the Cavs are built, especially on offense, but on defense also, is to beat you individually (they both rank near the top in isolation plays). I actually think that plays into our hands if we can gell better.

For instance, when the Spurs won the championship a few years ago, they didn't do it with superstars. Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and Leonard all have been superstars, but they were not at that point. They won because they were gelled and moving as one on defense and offense.

For that matter, when the Mavs beat the Heat, it was similar, although Dirk was probably still elite at that point.

I know some of you will disagree with my assessment - that's fine. I still hold out hope that a well-gelled Celtics team can give the Cavs fits.

Also, it seems to me that, if Crowder had hit his shot, this would be a potentially different conversation.

Edit: And then there is the whole issue of what makes a superstar. Does a championship make a superstar or do superstars make championships?

[Chief]

It seems like there are so many people on here who don't understand so many parts of what is going on at the moment. Some truly obvious things (to me anyway) need to be stated over and over again.

One thing LB33 is  good for is reminding everyone that you simply cannot win a ring without a superstar nowadays (Detroit was an anomaly that will probably never happen again), and despite Horford being reeeaaallly good (whether or not he is worth the money he got is not a completely stupid conversation, but it's pretty close to that) he is not a superstar.

We are not yet true ring contenders. We are a gritty, well coached team, with buckets of assets, just over three years removed from a complete teardown, with two years of playoff experience.

Pansies, softies, we are certainly not. Undersized, with streaky shooters we are.

Sorry, I just want to read more interesting stuff on here than the sky falling in.

I agree with you. But you have to admit Ko is a soft pansy.

[CoachBo]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

Good point.

This blog has devolved into a majority of posters, many in love with the current state of the team, who demand everyone agree with them. Dissent is no longer welcome here.

[droopdog7]

It seems like there are so many people on here who don't understand so many parts of what is going on at the moment. Some truly obvious things (to me anyway) need to be stated over and over again.

One thing LB33 is  good for is reminding everyone that you simply cannot win a ring without a superstar nowadays (Detroit was an anomaly that will probably never happen again), and despite Horford being reeeaaallly good (whether or not he is worth the money he got is not a completely stupid conversation, but it's pretty close to that) he is not a superstar.

We are not yet true ring contenders. We are a gritty, well coached team, with buckets of assets, just over three years removed from a complete teardown, with two years of playoff experience.

Pansies, softies, we are certainly not. Undersized, with streaky shooters we are.

Sorry, I just want to read more interesting stuff on here than the sky falling in.

trickybilly - We agree on most parts, and we are not on the same level as the Cavs, but it's not because we lack a "superstar."

We have to be 100% gelled, with everyone playing their role close to perfection to beat the Cavs. That, we are not. Our margin of error might be much smaller without a "superstar," but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Basketball is still a team game. When it comes down to it, team play will always beat individual play. The way the Raptors and the Cavs are built, especially on offense, but on defense also, is to beat you individually (they both rank near the top in isolation plays). I actually think that plays into our hands if we can gell better.

For instance, when the Spurs won the championship a few years ago, they didn't do it with superstars. Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and Leonard all have been superstars, but they were not at that point. They won because they were gelled and moving as one on defense and offense.

For that matter, when the Mavs beat the Heat, it was similar, although Dirk was probably still elite at that point.

I know some of you will disagree with my assessment - that's fine. I still hold out hope that a well-gelled Celtics team can give the Cavs fits.

Also, it seems to me that, if Crowder had hit his shot, this would be a potentially different conversation.

Edit: And then there is the whole issue of what makes a superstar. Does a championship make a superstar or do superstars make championships?

You can talk about gelling all you want but this team also has serious issues with size and rebounding (and scoring without the three).   Gelling ain't going to fix that.

So yeah, nit that simple.

[chambers]

TP. As I said in the other terrible thread, this team is battling with Toronto now as the 2nd best team in the East. If we could have predicted we'd be this good this quickly when we traded KG and PP I'd take it 100/100 times. We also have the assets to get better AND cap room.

Settle down haters!

[chambers]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

He's developed this unit of non-stars into arguably the best defensive team in the league.
We should have no business even dreaming of beating Cleveland but our defensive toughness and Brad's strategy are making us arguably the biggest overachievers in the NBA when our talent level on the offensive end is assessed vs other top 8 teams.

[mctyson]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

He's developed this unit of non-stars into arguably the best defensive team in the league.
We should have no business even dreaming of beating Cleveland but our defensive toughness and Brad's strategy are making us arguably the biggest overachievers in the NBA when our talent level on the offensive end is assessed vs other top 8 teams.

Agree here.  Outside of Horford and the young top-10 picks, was there a player on this roster that any office in the NBA thought would be a starter on a potential 50-win team?  At some point, the coach and the GM deserve the credit for finding some guys with enough talent to build a team.

[footey]

Last night indicated to me that we are closing in on the Cavs. Yes, Kyrie was hurting, but was still a force for them.   And Love is not normally going to be that productive.

Marcus Smart is this generation's Tony Allen, with better PG skills.  Having him to guard guys like Lebron is huge.  The bogus kick call aside, Marcus was wearing LBJ down, and that was a turnover that was caused by LBJ fatigue.  The refs obviously bailed him out.

I truly believe we are just a really good big from competing with the big boys.  Not sure where that big comes from; I think Noel makes the most sense, and we may have to wait until the off season to get him.  In the meantime, wish Brad would cut the reigns loose on Brown, let him play a lot more, play through his mistakes, so long as he goes hard on D.  Then by next season, he can really contribute to our success.

[CelticGuardian]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

Good point.

This blog has devolved into a majority of posters, many in love with the current state of the team, who demand everyone agree with them. Dissent is no longer welcome here.

TP. A discussion should go both ways because that's how we find a healthy medium when evaluating our C's.

[Donoghus]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

Good point.

This blog has devolved into a majority of posters, many in love with the current state of the team, who demand everyone agree with them. Dissent is no longer welcome here.

TP. A discussion should go both ways because that's how we find a healthy medium when evaluating our C's.

Dissent is still welcome.  The problem is people seeing what they want to see & claiming it isn't.

[GratefulCs]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

Good point.

This blog has devolved into a majority of posters, many in love with the current state of the team, who demand everyone agree with them. Dissent is no longer welcome here.

hahaaha


Hahahahaha..


...

Oh wait, you're serious?

[CelticGuardian]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

He's developed this unit of non-stars into arguably the best defensive team in the league.
We should have no business even dreaming of beating Cleveland but our defensive toughness and Brad's strategy are making us arguably the biggest overachievers in the NBA when our talent level on the offensive end is assessed vs other top 8 teams.

Agree here.  Outside of Horford and the young top-10 picks, was there a player on this roster that any office in the NBA thought would be a starter on a potential 50-win team?  At some point, the coach and the GM deserve the credit for finding some guys with enough talent to build a team.

Stevens deserves our respect and I understand he's a big part of our rebuild. I can't put any blame on him when guys miss wide open shots. What I see is that he's enamored with his basketball philosophy as if it's simply fool proof since we've had blunders before in the final minutes of a close game and he knows as well as anyone on this board that Isaiah is the one that has been getting it done for us all season during those final minutes. NBA basketball is predicated around individual heroics, the Pistons was an anomaly, Stevens has to live and die by his best player not his system.

[kozlodoev]

He's developed this unit of non-stars into arguably the best defensive team in the league.

Have you not been paying attention this season? The Celtics are currently tied for 17th in defensive efficiency for the season. Even last season when they were pretty decent, they weren't close to being the best in the league.

Outside of Horford and the young top-10 picks, was there a player on this roster that any office in the NBA thought would be a starter on a potential 50-win team?

First, this isn't really a potential 50-team win. It's a team that overachieved to get 48 wins last season and will be lucky to get close to it this season.

Then, Avery Bradley started on a team that got to the ECF and was voted to an all-NBA defense team before he was 22, so I'm guessing it's safe to say most 50-win NBA teams will have no problems putting him in their starting lineup. Same for Amir Johnson, who did in fact start 140+ games on a 50- and 49-win teams in Toronto before we signed him.

Heck, even Crowder started 25 games for the Mavs over his first two seasons although admittedly they weren't all that good then. But the notion that Brad S has been given a pile of trash and somehow turned it into this amazing treasure is just slightly overblown.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It seems like there are so many people on here who don't understand so many parts of what is going on at the moment. Some truly obvious things (to me anyway) need to be stated over and over again.

One thing LB33 is  good for is reminding everyone that you simply cannot win a ring without a superstar nowadays (Detroit was an anomaly that will probably never happen again), and despite Horford being reeeaaallly good (whether or not he is worth the money he got is not a completely stupid conversation, but it's pretty close to that) he is not a superstar.

We are not yet true ring contenders. We are a gritty, well coached team, with buckets of assets, just over three years removed from a complete teardown, with two years of playoff experience.

Pansies, softies, we are certainly not. Undersized, with streaky shooters we are.

Sorry, I just want to read more interesting stuff on here than the sky falling in.

trickybilly - We agree on most parts, and we are not on the same level as the Cavs, but it's not because we lack a "superstar."

We have to be 100% gelled, with everyone playing their role close to perfection to beat the Cavs. That, we are not. Our margin of error might be much smaller without a "superstar," but that doesn't mean it can't be done. Basketball is still a team game. When it comes down to it, team play will always beat individual play. The way the Raptors and the Cavs are built, especially on offense, but on defense also, is to beat you individually (they both rank near the top in isolation plays). I actually think that plays into our hands if we can gell better.

For instance, when the Spurs won the championship a few years ago, they didn't do it with superstars. Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, and Leonard all have been superstars, but they were not at that point. They won because they were gelled and moving as one on defense and offense.

For that matter, when the Mavs beat the Heat, it was similar, although Dirk was probably still elite at that point.

I know some of you will disagree with my assessment - that's fine. I still hold out hope that a well-gelled Celtics team can give the Cavs fits.

Also, it seems to me that, if Crowder had hit his shot, this would be a potentially different conversation.

Edit: And then there is the whole issue of what makes a superstar. Does a championship make a superstar or do superstars make championships?

You can talk about gelling all you want but this team also has serious issues with size and rebounding (and scoring without the three).   Gelling ain't going to fix that.

So yeah, nit that simple.

I'd argue that great connection as a team helps those things, but I know you'll disagree. That's alright, but here is my point.

Positioning is more important than height when it comes to rebounds. Thus the reason why Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman were two of the best rebounders ever even though they were undersized.

The problem with our team is that CBS puts a lot of pressure on our bigs to to help certain ways on defense. The strength of this is that it forces teams to score out of isolation more than pick-and-roll and ball movement. The weakness is that, unless performed perfectly, it puts our bigs out of position to rebound. CBS has asked the bigs to focus on boxing out and the guards and forwards to help clean up. The only one consistently cleaning up this year is Avery Bradley.

No doubt, we don't have a single great rebounder on our team, but that is compounded with our defensive system and poor rotations. Better rotations = better position = better rebounding, which would make it less of an issue.

Our system is not designed to allow one big oak to hang out around the rim and always be in position for rebounds. The system is designed differently.

It's not our players. It's our coach. I trust what CBS is building, even if I hate our lack of rebounding. If you want to question anything, you have to question our system, not our players.

Edit: 1000th post!!!

[CoachBo]

i don't think yesterday's loss is worth an overreaction, we were facing a very good and elite team. Defending champions with 3 superstars who can score at will and that exactly happened yesterday night. Started with Love hitting all his 3s and 2 posts, then Kyrie took over, then LeBron just had an amazing all around game throughout all 4 quarters. Kyrie was limping and both him and LeBron HAVE to play 40+ minutes in order to get this win. This Celtics team is all heart and grit, and we are just missing talent. I still do not think we are an elite team compare to CLE and GSW. Though I do wish Stevens did something similar like his first year when Rondo was still here. I am talking about the Dallas game where we were down 20 points and stormed back with Rondo still on the bench. I personally felt that Stevens should've done that yesterday with Smart/Zeller/Green/Brown playing so well that made the comeback happen.

I'm just asking myself... Why are people quick to play the 'haters get out' card after valid criticisms are made. You would think Stevens won a championship, or developed a prospect into a star, or anything that entitles him to never be questioned.

Good point.

This blog has devolved into a majority of posters, many in love with the current state of the team, who demand everyone agree with them. Dissent is no longer welcome here.

TP. A discussion should go both ways because that's how we find a healthy medium when evaluating our C's.

The early attraction I had to this blog was the serious - about even parts praise and criticism - discussion of the state of the Celtics.

Some of the game threads in the Big 3 era were outstanding, full of top-level professional basketball analysis - of the good and the bad.

That's gone now, giving way to the elevation to stardom of players no one has seen except on video clips - Zicic the latest example, but hardly the only one. Bender is another example from the draft.

Now, the majority of threads are "I love everything about this team" and agree with me, or I'm going to personally attack you - something the moderators didn't used to allow when the discussions were at a higher level.