Agree With Chris Mannix? PG13 OR Jimmy Butler Makes Us Legit Contenders?

[Chris22]

For C hrist's sake we need an athletic big.
Cousins or Noel.

[droopdog7]

It's not about whether either guy would make us a contender by themselves or this year.  The question is, is either a good value for what you'll need to give up.  If yes, then go ahead.  If no, then save the picks and keep plowing ahead.

[wdleehi]

Celtics need another star.  That would fill that need.


Then it is a question of filling the big man need.  It does not need to be a star.  Just a guy who can rebound and bang.

[MBunge]

Neither one of those guys really made their own team's contenders, either this season or the recent past.  I think it's hard to argue that Boston's current roster is massively more talented than Indy or Chicago has been at their best in the last four or five years.  They'd obviously improve us a lot if we didn't give up any core pieces for them, but we'd still have just a puncher's chance against the Cavs or GSW.

Mike

[86MaxwellSmart]

Mannix was almost legit a couple of years ago---but it seems he's taken the "Gary Tanguay" school of Broadcasting.

[Monkhouse]

We would be pretty close to being one, and not that far away from getting that final piece to make us one.

[mctyson]

http://www.csnne.com/video/wish-list-celtics-find-way-get-paul-george-or-jimmy-butler


Do you guys think either player added to this team makes us a legitimate contender?

(This isn't a question of whether you make the trade, it's a question of whether adding either truly makes us a championship contender for the next few seasons).

You cannot answer this question without first answering whether you would make the trade.  Making the trade means we give up players.  Who are those players?

I can only speculate, but no doubt in my mind Jimmy Butler costs us Crowder.  How does replacing Crowder with Butler makes us a contender?  It doesn't.  Even if Bradley is the one to go, that is at best a sideways move.  I personally do not think that Jimmy Butler is in that 'star' level that everyone tells us we need.

Paul George would likely cost at least Crowder or Bradley AND Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown.  Again, take those guys off this team - add Paul George - are we not back to where we started?  Maybe marginally better?

If you could get Paul George for Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, Amir and BK picks...you probably do that.  It would require Al moving to starting center and either PG or Crowder playing the 4, but that is a versatile starting lineup that could compete with Toronto and Cleveland any night.

[Moranis]

http://www.csnne.com/video/wish-list-celtics-find-way-get-paul-george-or-jimmy-butler


Do you guys think either player added to this team makes us a legitimate contender?

(This isn't a question of whether you make the trade, it's a question of whether adding either truly makes us a championship contender for the next few seasons).

You cannot answer this question without first answering whether you would make the trade.  Making the trade means we give up players.  Who are those players?

I can only speculate, but no doubt in my mind Jimmy Butler costs us Crowder.  How does replacing Crowder with Butler makes us a contender?  It doesn't.  Even if Bradley is the one to go, that is at best a sideways move.  I personally do not think that Jimmy Butler is in that 'star' level that everyone tells us we need.

Paul George would likely cost at least Crowder or Bradley AND Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown.  Again, take those guys off this team - add Paul George - are we not back to where we started?  Maybe marginally better?

If you could get Paul George for Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier, Amir and BK picks...you probably do that.  It would require Al moving to starting center and either PG or Crowder playing the 4, but that is a versatile starting lineup that could compete with Toronto and Cleveland any night.

Boston is significantly better swapping George or Butler for Crowder.  Crowder is a role player, adding a real #1 type player (which George and Butler are) and Boston is appreciably better even with losing an additional bench player or two.  Teams win playoff games on the strength of their starting lineup, not the strength of their bench.  If you make the starting lineup better, Boston improves its chances of winning meaningful playoff games, which at this point is all that matters. 

You are correct in that you do need to know what the trade is to really answer the question, but let's not pretend Butler and George aren't both huge upgrades on Crowder, because they absolutely are.

[manl_lui]

I'm going to say something crazy, that I would rather gamble on Cousins. Personally to me, I think a team with legit big men are historically a matchup problem for any LeBron led team in the past.

LeBron pre-Miami lost to the Celtics 2 times since assembling the last Big 3

so in the playoffs that LeBron has lost in the past, a serviceable big man or star big are usually involved

2008 - lost - KG/Perk
2009 - lost - Dwight Howard
2010 - lost - KG/Sheed/Perk
2011 - lost - ehh I guess you can say Dirk/Tyson
2012 - win vs OKC (no star big man that can score)
2013 - win vs Spurs (sure but I still felt like the Spurs choked)
2014 - lost - Duncan/Diaw (also the emergence of Kawhi)
2015 - lost - Green/Bogut
2016 - win - (GSW choked, and I also blame Green in getting himself suspending, turning the series around)

But yes, I do believe that with a good big man lineup, we are legit contenders

Horford/Boogie lineup looks very dangerous in my opinion

[Phantom255x]

I'm going to say something crazy, that I would rather gamble on Cousins. Personally to me, I think a team with legit big men are historically a matchup problem for any LeBron led team in the past.

LeBron pre-Miami lost to the Celtics 2 times since assembling the last Big 3

so in the playoffs that LeBron has lost in the past, a serviceable big man or star big are usually involved

2008 - lost - KG/Perk
2009 - lost - Dwight Howard
2010 - lost - KG/Sheed/Perk
2011 - lost - ehh I guess you can say Dirk/Tyson
2012 - win vs OKC (no star big man that can score)
2013 - win vs Spurs (sure but I still felt like the Spurs choked)
2014 - lost - Duncan/Diaw (also the emergence of Kawhi)
2015 - lost - Green/Bogut
2016 - win - (GSW choked, and I also blame Green in getting himself suspending, turning the series around)

But yes, I do believe that with a good big man lineup, we are legit contenders

Horford/Boogie lineup looks very dangerous in my opinion

That certainly makes sense, and I've always said Cousins is the guy who can create major mismatches against both Cleveland and Golden State to our advantage, and he adds that "extra dimension" and star power that this C's team needs.

However, the Kings are on a 4-game win streak and are firmly holding the 8th seed in the West thanks to the Blazers choking. They are also likely to offer Cousins an extension, so I think at this point Cousins is a pure pipe dream unless the Kings have an absolutely horrible January.

[Vermont Green]

The Celtics are a pretty good team right now.  Of course adding Paul George or Jimmy Butler would be an upgrade but with what we no doubt would have to give up (including Brooklyn picks), not enough of an upgrade.  Those are not the guys I want to go all in on this season..

I would rather see us just get a guy like Vucevic or Monroe (assuming we keep the BKN picks and other current assets for the most part) to get a little bit better now and then retool around the future young core we are going to have with our picks and stashes.

Picks are no sure thing of course but with the number of really good picks we have, chances are we get one top star and a couple more solid complementary players.  We can also trade Horford in a few years to add to a young core.

[PAOBoston]

The Celtics are a pretty good team right now.  Of course adding Paul George or Jimmy Butler would be an upgrade but with what we no doubt would have to give up (including Brooklyn picks), not enough of an upgrade.  Those are not the guys I want to go all in on this season..

I would rather see us just get a guy like Vucevic or Monroe (assuming we keep the BKN picks and other current assets for the most part) to get a little bit better now and then retool around the future young core we are going to have with our picks and stashes.

Picks are no sure thing of course but with the number of really good picks we have, chances are we get one top star and a couple more solid complementary players.  We can also trade Horford in a few years to add to a young core.

I don't think they signed Horford to just trade him in a few years to add to a young core. They signed him to be part of a winning team. It's time to trade some of those young pieces for an established veteran star.

[chambers]

If we could keep Crowder and Smart and bring both of them off the bench, then yes, we'd be true contenders.

But then we give up the Nets pick or probably both Jaylen and Rozier and some other future picks.

Which guys in this draft are going to be that much better than Jimmy Butler? Tough call.

If we could run out:

IT
AB
Butler
Horford
Amir

Kelly
Smart
Crowder
Green
Zeller
Jerebko

We'd be the best defensive team in the NBA in my opinion. We'd certainly be fighting the Cavs for the ECF. They'd still be favorites, but we could take them to 7 games and ultimately win if healthy and everything went right.

[TA9]

Without a legit center we won't become contenders.

[Celtics4ever]

I laughed when I heard it "a scoring wing" is what we would need.   One has to wonder if Mannix got into the eggnog before that broadcast.   We need a solid big an upgrade to JC would be nice but a big is a more pressing need.