Should Otto Porter be a potential max FA target?

[walker834]

No he isn't that kind of player. More like a younger version of crowder with more upside.  I'd compare him to Tatum but even less of a go to scorer.  Probably betetr at this point in his career though. I'd spend on him over Tatum in ways.

He's more of a go to scorer than Crowder and has some potential in that area but isn't really that.

[detour]

I really like Otto Porter, but he is neither an established star (Durant) nor has extraordinary talents/physical capabilities to justify a max contract. So I believe trying to find a guy like him in draft seems like a "much less risk and similar reward" strategy. Who knows, maybe Brown will be in similar discussions 3 years later.

[Big333223]

Porter has played nice but he's still a player who can't create his own offense. It make being with Wall and Beal a really nice fit but it also means he's not worth a max contract. The only way a player who can't create for himself gets a max is if they're a DPOY candidate. Porter isn't that.

[saltlover]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

[walker834]

feel the resistance lol.  It's not that Porter is a bad player.  He actually isn't.  He's a very good one and has some upside.  Also a quality guy.  I just think from a championship perspective he isn't that big an upgrade over Crowder to deserve the max.  We have Jaylen brown who is more talented imo as well.

Porter is about as solid as it gets in the nba as a player and a kid.  He's not that limited either. He can do a lot of things.  I just question what his upside actually is other than a really solid player.

I admit I have really high standards as far as what is it and what isn't.

People could tell me  Lebron James is it and I'd disagree though.

[walker834]

I want a wing who can bomb from 3 and also create off the dribble. Right now the combination of Crowder and Brown is about as good as it gets to me unless Durant, or Paul George come alive.

I really like josh jackson this draft too.  why pay the max for a guy like porter when we can get a younger guy like jackson to go with brown?

hayward is out there as well.  more deserving of the max over a guy like porter although porter is probably next.

I still wouldnt pay him that with crowder and brown here. I'd say no thanks to porter period.

now if we trade our picks for a big man porter could be an option as a possible upgrade to crowder.. I'd still target HAyward first.

It's all about vision to me.  I have a vision of what I want.  It's not exact but in order to win a championship I know what it looks like in theory and how it would hit right. 

POrter is a solid player  but is not it.  Much worse players in the league though. I actually like Porter.

[Ilikesports17]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

Trading a year of Jared Sullinger and James Young for a guy is really different from giving him 24 mil a year.

[Smartacus]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

I used to be all over the send uncle Jeff Green home to the Wizards for a sophomore Porter. Jeff is a Georgetown guy and seemed like he could have been the missing link on a Wall/Beal team.

I like OP's game and it's fit with this team. Maybe still a bit redundant with Horford since neither have a shoot first mindset, but it would solidify our starting lineup and give us options at the wing.

Don't think he'd stunt Jaylen's value since Brown's big enough that a Jaylen/Porter/Horford frontline would be just enough to bang with most modern frontcourts and versatile enough to shoot them off the floor.

Don't think Crowder's good enough to worry about a superior player coming in to take his spot. If this is actually who Porter is now he's about 2 tiers higher than Jae. Crowder and his contract are also some of our most attactive trade chips since he's cost controlled and would be an immediate upgrade over the backup or starting wing situation of almost every team in the league.

Still would rather have Hayward but Otto Porter would be much more than just a conciliation prize. Imo he's a legitimate max target option this summer.

[Smitty77]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

I used to be all over the send uncle Jeff Green home to the Wizards for a sophomore Porter. Jeff is a Georgetown guy and seemed like he could have been the missing link on a Wall/Beal team.

I like OP's game and it's fit with this team. Maybe still a bit redundant with Horford since neither have a shoot first mindset, but it would solidify our starting lineup and give us options at the wing.

Don't think he'd stunt Jaylen's value since Brown's big enough that a Jaylen/Porter/Horford frontline would be just enough to bang with most modern frontcourts and versatile enough to shoot them off the floor.

Don't think Crowder's good enough to worry about a superior player coming in to take his spot. If this is actually who Porter is now he's about 2 tiers higher than Jae. Crowder and his contract are also some of our most attactive trade chips since he's cost controlled and would be an immediate upgrade over the backup or starting wing situation of almost every team in the league.

Still would rather have Hayward but Otto Porter would be much more than just a conciliation prize. Imo he's a legitimate max target option this summer.

Did you type that Porter is TWO FREAKING TIERS higher than Crowder with a straight face???

Here are Porter's rankings at SF:  defensive RPM = 12th, overall RPM = 7th, and WINS = 7th.

Here are Crowder's ranking at SF:  defensive RPM = 10th, overall RPM = 8th, and WINS = 10th.

There are virtually IDENTICAL!!!

Please stick with the facts and NOT an opinion!!!!

Smitty77

[saltlover]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

I used to be all over the send uncle Jeff Green home to the Wizards for a sophomore Porter. Jeff is a Georgetown guy and seemed like he could have been the missing link on a Wall/Beal team.

I like OP's game and it's fit with this team. Maybe still a bit redundant with Horford since neither have a shoot first mindset, but it would solidify our starting lineup and give us options at the wing.

Don't think he'd stunt Jaylen's value since Brown's big enough that a Jaylen/Porter/Horford frontline would be just enough to bang with most modern frontcourts and versatile enough to shoot them off the floor.

Don't think Crowder's good enough to worry about a superior player coming in to take his spot. If this is actually who Porter is now he's about 2 tiers higher than Jae. Crowder and his contract are also some of our most attactive trade chips since he's cost controlled and would be an immediate upgrade over the backup or starting wing situation of almost every team in the league.

Still would rather have Hayward but Otto Porter would be much more than just a conciliation prize. Imo he's a legitimate max target option this summer.

Did you type that Porter is TWO FREAKING TIERS higher than Crowder with a straight face???

Here are Porter's rankings at SF:  defensive RPM = 12th, overall RPM = 7th, and WINS = 7th.

Here are Crowder's ranking at SF:  defensive RPM = 10th, overall RPM = 8th, and WINS = 10th.

There are virtually IDENTICAL!!!

Please stick with the facts and NOT an opinion!!!!

Smitty77

The way you quote RPM like it's the Bible I think you've got stock in Disney.

[jambr380]

Just because a player is good and young does not mean they are a max player.

I could not agree more, Tp.

One of SL's main points [which might be getting lost here] is that this will likely be our last chance to use our massive cap space before we have none (with IT, Smart, and AB getting huge raises in '18).

Moving forward, if we are unable to sign Durant, Griffin, Hayward, etc, our options are basically going to be our current team with Porter or our current team without Porter. How high the team salary is will really only matter to ownership.

We will probably be able to sign a couple of $10M players and KO this summer (and I understand that argument), but I prefer saving a roster spot and using the cap space on somebody who actually does have real potential. Regardless, I hope we do use the cap space.

And all of this could be for not if Danny makes a big trade for Cousins/George/or any non-expiring player.

[Smitty77]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

I used to be all over the send uncle Jeff Green home to the Wizards for a sophomore Porter. Jeff is a Georgetown guy and seemed like he could have been the missing link on a Wall/Beal team.

I like OP's game and it's fit with this team. Maybe still a bit redundant with Horford since neither have a shoot first mindset, but it would solidify our starting lineup and give us options at the wing.

Don't think he'd stunt Jaylen's value since Brown's big enough that a Jaylen/Porter/Horford frontline would be just enough to bang with most modern frontcourts and versatile enough to shoot them off the floor.

Don't think Crowder's good enough to worry about a superior player coming in to take his spot. If this is actually who Porter is now he's about 2 tiers higher than Jae. Crowder and his contract are also some of our most attactive trade chips since he's cost controlled and would be an immediate upgrade over the backup or starting wing situation of almost every team in the league.

Still would rather have Hayward but Otto Porter would be much more than just a conciliation prize. Imo he's a legitimate max target option this summer.

Did you type that Porter is TWO FREAKING TIERS higher than Crowder with a straight face???

Here are Porter's rankings at SF:  defensive RPM = 12th, overall RPM = 7th, and WINS = 7th.

Here are Crowder's ranking at SF:  defensive RPM = 10th, overall RPM = 8th, and WINS = 10th.

There are virtually IDENTICAL!!!

Please stick with the facts and NOT an opinion!!!!

Smitty77

The way you quote RPM like it's the Bible I think you've got stock in Disney.

It is MORE ACCURATE than my opinion, your opinion, OR anyone else's OPINION, right???

I prefer to take as much of the human element out of it as possible.

Sorry if that offends you and you feel it necessary to make snarky comments.  I hope that makes you feel better.

Smitty77

[wdleehi]

Just because a player is good and young does not mean they are a max player.

I could not agree more, Tp.

One of SL's main points [which might be getting lost here] is that this will likely be our last chance to use our massive cap space before we have none (with IT, Smart, and AB getting huge raises in '18).

Moving forward, if we are unable to sign Durant, Griffin, Hayward, etc, our options are basically going to be our current team with Porter or our current team without Porter. How high the team salary is will really only matter to ownership.

We will probably be able to sign a couple of $10M players and KO this summer (and I understand that argument), but I prefer saving a roster spot and using the cap space on somebody who actually does have real potential. Regardless, I hope we do use the cap space.

And all of this could be for not if Danny makes a big trade for Cousins/George/or any non-expiring player.

There are still limits to how much the owner is going to pay. 


It might be one thing to go into tax land for a contender.   It is another for just a good team.


Porter is not the player teams pay the tax for. 

[chambers]

Otto Porter is someone who I'd throw $20 million x 4 at if I had to make the decision immediately.
His potential and versatility are only increasing in value as the NBA shifts towards the stretch 3/4 combos that can defend multiple positions.
Porter is an excellent passer, has very good anticipation in transition. His defense is getting better and better and is solid right now.

Guys like Otto Porter and Avery Bradley are going see their value skyrocket as defense, transition offense and 3 point shooting increase in value in this complex screen and roll heavy offenses for shooters. It's about being fast, tough defensively and combining great passing with guys who are lights out from three.

he torched the Celtics only a month ago if no one remembers? It was an outlier of a game but still shows how good he can become at only age 24.
Was Avery Bradley this good at age 24 on the offensive end?
Porter scores 34 points vs Celtics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9XLxsPaUrQ

[saltlover]

Eh, I met similar resistance on this board last year when I proposed Sullinger and Young for Porter.  I shouldn't be surprised how this thread has turned out.  Living in DC, I've seen a lot of Porter, and am both very comfortable with his skillset today, as well as his continued progression, moreso than most posters here.

I used to be all over the send uncle Jeff Green home to the Wizards for a sophomore Porter. Jeff is a Georgetown guy and seemed like he could have been the missing link on a Wall/Beal team.

I like OP's game and it's fit with this team. Maybe still a bit redundant with Horford since neither have a shoot first mindset, but it would solidify our starting lineup and give us options at the wing.

Don't think he'd stunt Jaylen's value since Brown's big enough that a Jaylen/Porter/Horford frontline would be just enough to bang with most modern frontcourts and versatile enough to shoot them off the floor.

Don't think Crowder's good enough to worry about a superior player coming in to take his spot. If this is actually who Porter is now he's about 2 tiers higher than Jae. Crowder and his contract are also some of our most attactive trade chips since he's cost controlled and would be an immediate upgrade over the backup or starting wing situation of almost every team in the league.

Still would rather have Hayward but Otto Porter would be much more than just a conciliation prize. Imo he's a legitimate max target option this summer.

Did you type that Porter is TWO FREAKING TIERS higher than Crowder with a straight face???

Here are Porter's rankings at SF:  defensive RPM = 12th, overall RPM = 7th, and WINS = 7th.

Here are Crowder's ranking at SF:  defensive RPM = 10th, overall RPM = 8th, and WINS = 10th.

There are virtually IDENTICAL!!!

Please stick with the facts and NOT an opinion!!!!

Smitty77

The way you quote RPM like it's the Bible I think you've got stock in Disney.

It is MORE ACCURATE than my opinion, your opinion, OR anyone else's OPINION, right???

I prefer to take as much of the human element out of it as possible.

Sorry if that offends you and you feel it necessary to make snarky comments.  I hope that makes you feel better.

Smitty77

Is it? Do you know how RPM is calculated?  Have you seen the regression formula?  Would you be able to evaluate the regression if you found it? I haven't, and I've looked.

Meanwhile, Porter has double the VORP, 75% higher BPM, 10% more WS/48, and a better PER.  My question is why you insist on throwing RPM out there in virtually every thread these days, when, unless you work for ESPN, you have no idea how it's calculated.

Now I don't think any of the other advanced stats I listed are perfect, but when you compare two players, and one of them leads in all of those stats, and many by a lot, I'll begin to draw a conclusion regarding which is better.

Mind you, I am arguing that Porter and Crowder and Brown should all be on the same team, and split the bulk of the 96 minutes available at the 3 and 4 between them, so I don't frankly care who's better.  My argument is that Porter is better than Johnson, Jerebko, and Zeller, all of whom would be gone next year.  My argument is also that Porter should be considered a viable option if we miss out in Griffin, Hayward, Cousins, Durant, George, and any other player we like to dream about.  I also prefer Porter to resigning Amir, JJ, and Zeller, or giving 2-3 smaller contracts to players like Muscala, Roberson, and Ingles, or to ownership just sitting on their pile of cash.

Although perhaps we should just resign James Young, who is the 8th best defensive shooting guard in the NBA, according to DPRM.