Second unit ballhandler: Smart or Rozier?

[SCeltic34]

After receiving little playing time in his rookie year, Stevens is letting Rozier learn on the fly this season.  Rozier has looked tentative functioning as the primary ballhandler for the 2nd unit and is struggling with decision making and creating for others.  This is understandable for a 2nd year player.  Many fans clamor for more playing time for our prospects.  Rozier is getting that playing time - probably mostly out of necessity with the departure of Evan Turner - but thus far his play at the PG spot has been disappointing from a facilitating standpoint.

Smart on the other hand has improved substantially in running the PnR over the years, demonstrating an understanding of how to use his body to probe towards the paint while staying under control.  This is vital for a player who does not possess a quick first step or top speed.  It's obvious that Smart is the superior facilitator at this time.  He has better court vision and better passing skills, showing an ability to hit his teammates with well-timed passes in pick and pops, PnRs, and in transition.  He also is ineffective off of the ball and has looked particularly bad over the past 4 or so games when Rozier has taken on ballhandling duties, furthering the argument that he should have the ball in his hands when Thomas is not in the game.

Neither player has impressive stats (but the longer I've followed basketball, the more I realize that traditional stats are often meaningless without context). 

           MPG   Off. Rating    Ast Per Game   TO Per Game   Ast/TO Ratio
Smart   30.7       103                 4.1                      1.9       2.16
Rozier   18.3       103.5              1.8                     0.7       2.69

In the long run, I think that Rozier has the tools to become a superior offensive player in every facet however.  He is frighteningly athletic, has shifty moves and can change speeds, and has the ability to finish around the rim (something that Smart cannot do).  In short, if he is able to...

- Keep his dribble more fundamental - i.e. less needless between-the-legs dribbles - and reduce overdribbling
- Tighten his handle (which seems pretty solid, but is still loose at times)
- Use his speed and push the ball up the floor consistently, even after opponent made baskets, and get the C's into their offense more quickly
- Develop his PnR game using his athletic abilities to carve his way into the paint consistently

...then I think that he can be a far more valuable piece on offense than Smart, especially if he continues to demonstrate the ability to shoot.  I should also mention that he has the tools to be great on defense but has fallen short on the defensive end as well, but this is another topic for another day.

So which makes more sense?  Continue Rozier's development as our 2nd unit ballhandler (which Stevens seems to be doing)? Or should Smart be handling this role?  As tempted as I am to want to continue with Rozier (I'm personally still very high on his potential), I prefer Smart at this time for the reasons listed above.

[Surferdad]

The stats and long OP post makes my eyes glaze over.  Fortunately, I don't have to read anything to vote on this poll.  It's Smart and I don't even see the debate.  He has shown much improved passing this year and I don't see that from Rozier, who I think of as the classic 'SG in a PG body'.

[tankcity!]

This thread is going to blow up. I agree with you though. My points have already been made. There is no stat in this world you can use to debate about Smart so I think you are wasting your time. Smart can do whatever he wants. The man can do no wrong. Here's to a team filled with future role players. Cheers.

[tankcity!]

The stats and long OP post makes my eyes glaze over.  Fortunately, I don't have to read anything to vote on this poll.  It's Smart and I don't even see the debate.  He has shown much improved passing this year and I don't see that from Rozier, who I think of as the classic 'SG in a PG body'.

Yes, his passing has been amazing. He's averaging 4.1 assists a game in 31 minutes a game. What a magnificent passer fellas. We got ourselves a Rondo.

[SCeltic34]

The stats and long OP post makes my eyes glaze over.  Fortunately, I don't have to read anything to vote on this poll.  It's Smart and I don't even see the debate.  He has shown much improved passing this year and I don't see that from Rozier, who I think of as the classic 'SG in a PG body'.

Long term potential.  I think many would agree that we're not true contenders this year.  Smart is better now, but looking ahead Rozier has the potential to be a much better offensive players in the season to come.

Think of it as a classic argument of playing to win games now vs. developing potential.  Many will disagree with me, but I don't see Smart as ever being a scoring type of player.  Max ~13 PPG kind of player on a good team, but able to function as a glue guy who can help your team win it all with intangibles.

[PhoSita]

False dichotomy.

Answer is either/both.

I agree that Rozier is the better scorer.  I don't love his handle or court vision for any purpose other than creating his own shot, though.  I like him as a part time ballhandler.

Smart is improving as a passer and pick and roll operator, but he's miserable as a finisher offensively.  Can't be the main guy, but works OK in a time share.

[PickNRoll]

I don't think it has to be one or the other.  You can run a lineup with Rozier, Smart, and IT and basically take turns.  It's contextual.  Rozier handles pressure better than Smart.  Smart seems to improve when the game slows down.  Rozier can be disruptive guarding certain opposing guards, Smart seems to be more disruptive defensively against bigger guys (2's and 3's) when he can get his nose dirty in the paint.  Smart also shows good chemistry lately with KO and JJ.  No simple answers here.  Good problem to have.

[SCeltic34]

This thread is going to blow up. I agree with you though. My points have already been made. There is no stat in this world you can use to debate about Smart so I think you are wasting your time. Smart can do whatever he wants. The man can do no wrong. Here's to a team filled with future role players. Cheers.

I don't think I've ever seen a post on here that purported such.  There's lots of Smart supporters on here - myself included - but that doesn't mean we're not critical of him either.  That's besides the topic though.

[tankcity!]

This thread is going to blow up. I agree with you though. My points have already been made. There is no stat in this world you can use to debate about Smart so I think you are wasting your time. Smart can do whatever he wants. The man can do no wrong. Here's to a team filled with future role players. Cheers.

I don't think I've ever seen a post on here that purported such.  There's lots of Smart supporters on here - myself included - but that doesn't mean we're not critical of him either.  That's besides the topic though.

Dude, you just had someone say Smart is an improved passer and ignored your assist stat completely. He's averaging 4 assists a game. He's not a good passer by any means. He actually has a lot of turnovers.

Second, you obviously haven't read the other Smart vs. Rozier debate topics because their is no stat you can literally use to prove your point to them. You'll see on this thread haha. Like I said, cheers.

[tankcity!]

False dichotomy.

Answer is either/both.

I agree that Rozier is the better scorer.  I don't love his handle or court vision for any purpose other than creating his own shot, though.  I like him as a part time ballhandler.

Smart is improving as a passer and pick and roll operator, but he's miserable as a finisher offensively.  Can't be the main guy, but works OK in a time share.

I'm much higher on Rozier than you. No surprise. We meet again. First it was Jaylen Brown vs. Bender, now it's the evaluation of Rozier.

First, how can you say you don't love his handles? That's one of his strengths. He def lacks vision, but so what? He's in his 2nd year. I truly think he can be a starter one day, can't say that for Smart.

[SCeltic34]

This thread is going to blow up. I agree with you though. My points have already been made. There is no stat in this world you can use to debate about Smart so I think you are wasting your time. Smart can do whatever he wants. The man can do no wrong. Here's to a team filled with future role players. Cheers.

I don't think I've ever seen a post on here that purported such.  There's lots of Smart supporters on here - myself included - but that doesn't mean we're not critical of him either.  That's besides the topic though.

Dude, you just had someone say Smart is an improved passer and ignored your assist stat completely. He's averaging 4 assists a game. He's not a good passer by any means. He actually has a lot of turnovers.

Second, you obviously haven't read the other Smart vs. Rozier debate topics because their is no stat you can literally use to prove your point to them. You'll see on this thread haha. Like I said, cheers.

I also stated that traditional stats without context aren't particularly valuable.  I respectfully disagree that Smart isn't a good passer.  I think his vision and passing is pretty good (not great by any stretch of the imagination, sure) and he'd average more assists with the ball in his hands more frequently.  4 assists per game in 30.7 minutes is less than impressive, but context matters.  I'd like him to have the ball more with the 2nd unit, especially since he's pretty useless off the ball on offense.

Let the thread blow up.  It's just a basketball internet forum after all.

[PhoSita]

False dichotomy.

Answer is either/both.

I agree that Rozier is the better scorer.  I don't love his handle or court vision for any purpose other than creating his own shot, though.  I like him as a part time ballhandler.

Smart is improving as a passer and pick and roll operator, but he's miserable as a finisher offensively.  Can't be the main guy, but works OK in a time share.

I'm much higher on Rozier than you. No surprise. We meet again. First it was Jaylen Brown vs. Bender, now it's the evaluation of Rozier.

First, how can you say you don't love his handles? That's one of his strengths. He def lacks vision, but so what? He's in his 2nd year. I truly think he can be a starter one day, can't say that for Smart.

Rozier has a great handle for getting himself to his chosen spots on the floor.  He's kind of like Avery in that respect.

I don't think he's very good at probing or purposefully creating openings for teammates.

That might come in time, but right now I see him more as a combo guard who can handle a bit when necessary rather than a guy who can be counted on to run the offense.

He spent a bunch of time in college and that was his MO in college as well, however, so I'm not sure how much you can expect him to change. 

[PickNRoll]

This thread is going to blow up. I agree with you though. My points have already been made. There is no stat in this world you can use to debate about Smart so I think you are wasting your time. Smart can do whatever he wants. The man can do no wrong. Here's to a team filled with future role players. Cheers.

I don't think I've ever seen a post on here that purported such.  There's lots of Smart supporters on here - myself included - but that doesn't mean we're not critical of him either.  That's besides the topic though.

It's kind of true that Smart defies traditional statistics.  Nobody ever said he's without faults though.  I would say that if you're worried about 28% 3 point shooting, you don't get Marcus and you'll probably never like him.  I personally don't give a crap if he shoots 30% for the rest of his life.  He embodies everything it means to be a Celtic.

[CelticGuardian]

The stats and long OP post makes my eyes glaze over.  Fortunately, I don't have to read anything to vote on this poll.  It's Smart and I don't even see the debate.  He has shown much improved passing this year and I don't see that from Rozier, who I think of as the classic 'SG in a PG body'.

Long term potential.  I think many would agree that we're not true contenders this year.  Smart is better now, but looking ahead Rozier has the potential to be a much better offensive players in the season to come.

Think of it as a classic argument of playing to win games now vs. developing potential.  Many will disagree with me, but I don't see Smart as ever being a scoring type of player.  Max ~13 PPG kind of player on a good team, but able to function as a glue guy who can help your team win it all with intangibles.

And The Turner Minutes saga continues... Frankly we need to fill the void that guy left but at that price?!  Yeah, id rather just develop the talent myself. Look at Bradley, guys can improve their game balling here in Boston and some may take longer than others... Thats why I think Smart should run point and take advantage of the spacing rozier offers.

This whole debate is proof that we are not serious contenders. To fill that ET void, one of these two guys had to come into the season ready for the opportunity. And it looked like it was Smart there for a sec, theres still time but I want to see a breakout from one of these two.

[Csfan1984]

I would have split time if given the chance.

Leading a break I want Rozier.
Out let/lead passes I want Smart.

Starting the offense I want Smart.
Finishing the offense I want Rozier.

Playing off the ball for the shot I want Rozier.
Playing off the ball for a cut I want Smart.

ISO I want Rozier.
Pick and roll I want Smart.

They both have there weaknesses and strengths.