Would you trade 2017 Nets pick for Okafor?

[celticsclay]

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-sixers/report-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-proposed-blockbuster

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald reports

http://nesn.com/2016/02/report-sixers-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-in-mystery-trade/

Steve Bulpett reported Friday night

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/2/19/11076536/celtics-reportedly-targeted-jahlil-okafor-before-trade-deadline

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald hears the target was Sixers forward/center Jahlil Okafor

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/02/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_201.html

according to the Boston Herald's Steve Bulpett

http://www.phillyvoice.com/nba-rumors-sixers-and-celtics-were-close-jahlil-okafor-trade-deadline/

According the Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/celtics-76ers-trade-rumors-jahlil-okafor-mystery-player-trade-deadline-022116

via Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/20/robb-jahlil-okafor-celtics-trade-target/

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald revealed

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/2/19/11076358/nba-trade-rumor-jahlil-okafor-may-have-been-the-mystery-trade-target

Bulpett

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240920/Celtics-Targeted-Trade-For-Jahlil-Okafor

no source

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2016/02/20/report-jahlil-okafor-was-the-unnamed-target-for-celtics-on-trade-deadline-day/

According to the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett

http://973espn.com/report-celtics-trade-target-was-sixers-jahlil-okafor/

According to the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/celtics-nearly-acquired-jahlil-okafor/293462

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://nesn.com/2016/05/bill-simmons-jahlil-okafor-would-be-best-case-scenario-for-celtics/

no source

I got to give you a big TP for this (pointing out this is all the same source). I don't know what LB is trying to prove with his post. That in today's media the same story is syndicated many many times on different web pages? Is LB trying to make a larger statement about the role of media and the spread of misinformation? Perhaps it is part of a larger discussion of the decline in credible journalism and blog culture?


While I appreciate that topic (LB we can make a separate thread about the evolving media), back to the topic of Okafor this is what I think is known.

At the trade deadline there was a rumor from Bulpett that was picked up by other outlets about the Celtics being interested in trading the Nets pick for Okafor. Remember that at that time it was still believed the Nets pick would end up being 5th or 6th.

The Nets improbably rested Lopez and Young down the stretch and had the Suns and Wolves blow by them. The pick ended up being 3rd.

Now there is a newer set of rumors at the deadline that the 76ers really really wanted to trade Okafor for a top 6 pick (or Noel). It was reported that the 76ers were surprised they could not get a top 6 pick for Okafor and were turned down by every team.

Maybe the Bulpett rumor is true. Maybe the report around the draft was true. Maybe they were both true. What we can't do is just assume that the trade rumor that fits our agenda is the true one and ignore subsequent reports.

I also can't really understand why we would go with an older rumor before a new one. It does seem pretty clear that Okafor's value has gone down for a variety of reasons since he was drafted.
He has had off the field issues. He has had a seemingly minor injury that has lingered for many months. His stats are down across the board despite having the luxury of getting to play against other teams backups. Philadelphia fans have questioned his effort level. His defense continues to be blasted. Does he have a serious injury we don't know about? Is something happening behind the scenes? I would like to know this, especially given what happened with the Holiday trade, before considering adding Okafor to our roster.
 

[LarBrd33]

I was more willing to trade the 2016 Nets pick for Okafor, because it was widely called a 2 player draft and Okafor was widely seen as a better prospect than anyone available after Ben Simmons (some had Ingram ahead of him, though).

Obviously AInge agreed, because he reportedly offered a package built around the 2016 pick for Okafor at the trade deadline and Philly declined.

This year is a little different.  It's still early, but I've read there's at least 5 guys in this draft with legitimate star potential.   Hearing some very positive things about this draft.  Some are saying it's "loaded" with talent.  Based on a couple articles I skimmed, I got the impression that a tier3/4 prospect like Jaylen Brown would go no higher than 10th in the 2017 draft.   So we're potentially talking about a very different situation here than last season when Ainge offered a package built around the 2016 pick for Okafor.  When Ainge made that offer, there was still a chance the pick could have ended up #1 and net a real upgrade in Simmons, but it was still more likely to fall in the 3-5 range where Okafor was clearly a better prospect.  Can't blame Philly for turning that one down.  You don't trade a bluechip prospect for an unknown scratch ticket that most likely would end up a weak prospect.

I don't follow College ball enough to have a firm opinion on this upcoming draft.  It's still early.  But if it's true that we're looking at possible 5 superstars and 5-10 guys with more potential than Jaylen Brown (Okafor-level prospects), then I'd definitely rather keep the 2017 pick.   

My only fear is that when Jeremy Lin comes back, the Nets go on a run and push themselves outside the bottom 5-10.  So far, the Nets are undefeated in games where Jeremy Lin played and Brook Lopez got 25+ minutes.   So hopefully they stay ravaged by injuries and the idea of moving the 2017 Nets pick for Okafor doesn't go from "plausible" to "pipe dream".

This okafor Boston bit is not accurate.

It's entirely accurate and you are already aware of that, clay. It was widely reported that the deal Ainge claimed was close was a package built around the Brooklyn pick for okafor at the trade deadline.  You know [dang] well I'm not referring to the media speculation on draft day regarding what they thought okafor was worth.   It's well established by now that you are in denial about our offers for okafor on draft day 2015 and the trade deadline, but you are keenly aware of what I'm referring to. It happened.  Get over it.

Was it widely reported or was it just a single report from Steve Bulpett citing a single source that was widely repeated?  I just don't think Ainge valued Okafor enough to be interested in a package for Okafor.  I'd be much more willing to believe Ainge was willing to take a huge risk with an offer for Embiid.

Really doesn't matter at this point.


http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-sixers/report-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-proposed-blockbuster

http://nesn.com/2016/02/report-sixers-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-in-mystery-trade/

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/2/19/11076536/celtics-reportedly-targeted-jahlil-okafor-before-trade-deadline

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/02/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_201.html

http://www.phillyvoice.com/nba-rumors-sixers-and-celtics-were-close-jahlil-okafor-trade-deadline/

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/celtics-76ers-trade-rumors-jahlil-okafor-mystery-player-trade-deadline-022116

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/20/robb-jahlil-okafor-celtics-trade-target/

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/2/19/11076358/nba-trade-rumor-jahlil-okafor-may-have-been-the-mystery-trade-target

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240920/Celtics-Targeted-Trade-For-Jahlil-Okafor

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2016/02/20/report-jahlil-okafor-was-the-unnamed-target-for-celtics-on-trade-deadline-day/

http://973espn.com/report-celtics-trade-target-was-sixers-jahlil-okafor/

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/celtics-nearly-acquired-jahlil-okafor/293462

http://nesn.com/2016/05/bill-simmons-jahlil-okafor-would-be-best-case-scenario-for-celtics/

I'm not sure what your definition of "widely reported" is, but essentially every major publication covered the fact that Ainge was referring to Okafor when he said he came close to moving a package built around the Brooklyn pick for a player.  Not only that, but every NBA-related podcast I listened to also covered it.  Bulpett may have been the first to break that news, but many many publications later reported it.  And while you might be in denial like Clay and think Bulpett lied, it should be noted that not a single report ever came out disputing this fact.   It is what it is.   

Just for clarification, it's common knowledge that Ainge targeted lots of stars at the deadline.  Many reported that we also made offers for Jimmy Butler, for instance but it sounds like nothing was ever close to happening.  The Okafor report comes from when Ainge was point-blank asked in a radio interview if he had come close to making a deal involving the Brooklyn pick.  He said that yes, he came "very close" to using the 2016 Brooklyn Nets pick in a big trade before the other team backed out.   It was later widely reported (and never disputed) that Ainge was referring to a deal for Okafor.  While he may have indeed made other offers for a wide array of players - Okafor was the one we came close to landing before Philly thought better of it and "backed out" (the words Ainge used to describe it).

At this point, who cares.  Team wants/needs change.  Player values and perceived values change with time as well.  I wouldn't really expect Boston to offer the 2017 pick for Okafor at this point.  As Clay is keen to point out, prior to the 2016 draft Chad Ford thought Okafor was not worth a top 5 pick and speculated that Philly could only get a pick in the 6-8 range (which made no logical sense since everyone was pretty much in agreement all the picks in the 3-8 range were interchangeable) ... That's the same article in which Ford's colleague Kevin Pelton suggested Jusuf Nurkic was equal value for the #3 pick.  So take that for what it's worth.   Anyways, it sounds like Philly is keeping Okafor for now anyways.  So it's much ado about nothing.   Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

Didn't Bulpett just recently say that the Bulls wanted the Brooklyn pick and Crowder for Buter and Ainge didn't want to pull the trigger?

Someone reputable said that Ainge offered up the Brooklyn pick for Butler, and the Bulls just wanted too much more so the deal fell through.
Anyone remember this recently?

that supposedly happened on draft day months after we were close to trading for okafor.  It wasn't as widely reported. What I read was we offered the #3 pick, smart and crowder,  but the bulls also wanted Bradley.

[green_bballers13]

I'm so happy we didn't do that trade. I prefer Marcus Smart over Okafor as it is, without any other additions to a trade. I like Daily Fantasy sports, but I would prefer that my favorite team (the Boston Celtics) win more basketball games than they lose.

I know Okafor is a better offensive player than Tyler Zeller. If we replaced Zeller with Okafor, I'm not sure that we would have a drastically different team. I might actually prefer Amir Johnson at an older age than Okafor on his second contract.

Okafor's rebounding totals from the last 5 games (against some of the worst teams in the NBA): 5, 2, 1, 3, 1. That is really bad. And the 76ers went 3-2 in those games.

What happens when Philly goes on one of their 9 game losing streaks? If Okafor's stats improve, I'm not sure that is necessarily a good trend either.

[LarBrd33]

http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-sixers/report-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-proposed-blockbuster

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald reports

http://nesn.com/2016/02/report-sixers-jahlil-okafor-was-celtics-target-in-mystery-trade/

Steve Bulpett reported Friday night

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/2/19/11076536/celtics-reportedly-targeted-jahlil-okafor-before-trade-deadline

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald hears the target was Sixers forward/center Jahlil Okafor

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/02/boston_celtics_trade_rumors_20_201.html

according to the Boston Herald's Steve Bulpett

http://www.phillyvoice.com/nba-rumors-sixers-and-celtics-were-close-jahlil-okafor-trade-deadline/

According the Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/celtics-76ers-trade-rumors-jahlil-okafor-mystery-player-trade-deadline-022116

via Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/20/robb-jahlil-okafor-celtics-trade-target/

Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald revealed

http://www.celticsblog.com/2016/2/19/11076358/nba-trade-rumor-jahlil-okafor-may-have-been-the-mystery-trade-target

Bulpett

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/240920/Celtics-Targeted-Trade-For-Jahlil-Okafor

no source

http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2016/02/20/report-jahlil-okafor-was-the-unnamed-target-for-celtics-on-trade-deadline-day/

According to the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett

http://973espn.com/report-celtics-trade-target-was-sixers-jahlil-okafor/

According to the Boston Herald’s Steve Bulpett

http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/celtics-nearly-acquired-jahlil-okafor/293462

According to Steve Bulpett of the Boston Herald

http://nesn.com/2016/05/bill-simmons-jahlil-okafor-would-be-best-case-scenario-for-celtics/

no source

I got to give you a big TP for this (pointing out this is all the same source). I don't know what LB is trying to prove with his post.
 

dude. We get it clay.  You have made it abundantly clear you think okafor is garbage and hence you are completely in denial that we offered the Brooklyn pick in a package for okafor at the trade deadline.  Don't insult me because facts make you emotional.

You're trying to compare this to a situation where a Twitter troll reports something, it spreads to fake news sites, some blogs pick it up and before you know it Brian scalabrine is flippantly commenting on it.  In those situations there's always some other media source who is quick to dispute rumor and pretty often the team itself will shoot it down.  Whether we are talking about the nonsense Blake griffin rumors this summer or the nonsense Klay Thomson rumor from a couple weeks ago, there were countless sources shooting down the rumors and someone from one of the teams  actually shot it down as well (doc shot down the Griffin rumor.  Warriors shot down the Klay rumor). 

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN WITH THE OKAFOR REPORT.  Ainge himself broke the story that he came close to trading the Brooklyn pick in a package for a player and that the other team backed down last minute.  Steve bulpett was the one who reported Ainge was referring to okafor.  Eventually, every single notable local and national sports publication (ESPN, Fox sports, cbs, etc) as well as every noteable NBA podcast (bill Simmons, Zach Lowe, etc) reported it as well. Yes, they credited bulpett for breaking it.   Nobody every wrote anything disputing it.  Nobody from either side shot down the rumor.  There was nothing to dispute. It happened.  Get over it.  Seriously. 

If it really bothers you, email Steve bulpett or the Boston herald and demand answers.  At this point it doesn't matter. Boston is unlikely to trade the 2017 Brooklyn pick for okafor and it sounds like Philly is keeping him anyways. 

[green_bballers13]

How is clay the emotional one in this scenario? He made the point that one person reported it, and everyone else picked it up.

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

I'm not here on the Celtics blog trying to convince everyone that Klay Thompson was going to get traded here. Why are you so interested in supporting the claim that Okafor was coming to Boston?

[Eddie20]

If I were facing a Cs team with Isaiah and Okafor I would exploit that matchup all day. I would literally put whoever those two are guarding, which will be a PG and a big, in a pick and roll all game. That's the problem of having an inferior big like Okafor, who has mobility issues, in today's game with the emphasis on bigs that can either shoot or those that are athletic rim runners. An Okafor acquisition might sound good on paper, but his weaknesses are real and plugging him into a rotation and hoping his teammates can shore up his deficiencies is a daunting task.

[apc]

Do the Sixers even want more picks??
I think they should try and trade for a reliable veteran.

[celticsclay]

How is clay the emotional one in this scenario? He made the point that one person reported it, and everyone else picked it up.

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

I'm not here on the Celtics blog trying to convince everyone that Klay Thompson was going to get traded here. Why are you so interested in supporting the claim that Okafor was coming to Boston?

Thank you for this and TP. I also don't get why we must accept the trade rumor deadline but insist on shooting down the more recent draft day rumors. Also, even if the trade deadline was true, the Nets pick was thought to probably end up 5th or 6th at that time (obviously with a very small chance of being a top 2 pick). What is so remarkable about us offering a 5th or 6th pick for Okafor in a weak draft? Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

[LarBrd33]

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

Scal mentioned the Klay thing on a broadcast. Folks reported that scal reported it.  Scal later admitted he read it on a fake news website and essentially said he shouldn't be used as a source, because he will talk about every rumor he hears even it's fake.  Scal got a stern talking to from the team itself.  There were countless articles shooting down the rumor and even tracing scal's rumor to the source.   Someone from the warriors completely dismissed the Klay Thompson rumors as fiction.  It was a nonsense rumor that scal undermined his credibility as a media guy by exposing it to a large audience.  It was a career mistake that he will likely not repeat.

It's an act of grasping at straws and desperately clinging to a narrative that "i think okafor sucks so I want to believe the Celtics also think he sucks" to try to compare that with the bulpett report.   Bulpett reported it.  Others reported it.  Nobody wrote alternative reports. Nobody from either team disputed it.  Nobody questioned bulpetts credibility.   It happened. It was an honest report. Time to accept it and move on.

[Tr1boy]

Do the Sixers even want more picks??
I think they should try and trade for a reliable veteran.

Cmon its the 76ers .... A dleague team playing nba teams

Such a mismanaged team

[LarBrd33]

How is clay the emotional one in this scenario? He made the point that one person reported it, and everyone else picked it up.

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

I'm not here on the Celtics blog trying to convince everyone that Klay Thompson was going to get traded here. Why are you so interested in supporting the claim that Okafor was coming to Boston?

Thank you for this and TP. I also don't get why we must accept the trade rumor deadline but insist on shooting down the more recent draft day rumors. Also, even if the trade deadline was true, the Nets pick was thought to probably end up 5th or 6th at that time (obviously with a very small chance of being a top 2 pick). What is so remarkable about us offering a 5th or 6th pick for Okafor in a weak draft? Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

the interesting thing is that the Brooklyn pick was more valuable at the deadline when we offered it in a package for okafor because it still had a chance of ending up 1st. Once the pick ended up 3rd in a 2 player draft it was significantly less valuable than the pick Philly turned down in February. And while chad ford had his own speculation as to what okafor was worth on draft night, there were no concrete reports that Philly was willing to move okafor for any of the speculated picks. In fact, I've read more reports that suggested Philly was leaning towards moving Noel and wasn't actively shopping okafor on draft night - because they couldn't get rid of a star prospect center until they were supremely confidently that Embiid would play.  It's why even this week it was reported that Philly is unlikely to move okafor right now.  They still need to see what they have with Embiid.

[celticsclay]

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

Scal mentioned the Klay thing on a broadcast. Folks reported that scal reported it.  Scal later admitted he read it on a fake news website and essentially said he shouldn't be used as a source, because he will talk about every rumor he hears even it's fake.  Scal got a stern talking to from the team itself.  There were countless articles shooting down the rumor and even tracing scal's rumor to the source.   Someone from the warriors completely dismissed the Klay Thompson rumors as fiction.  It was a nonsense rumor that scal undermined his credibility as a media guy by exposing it to a large audience.  It was a career mistake that he will likely not repeat.

It's an act of grasping at straws and desperately clinging to a narrative that "i think okafor sucks so I want to believe the Celtics also think he sucks" to try to compare that with the bulpett report.   Bulpett reported it.  Others reported it.  Nobody wrote alternative reports. Nobody from either team disputed it.  Nobody questioned bulpetts credibility.   It happened. It was an honest report. Time to accept it and move on.

This has quickly become your raison d'etre

[LarBrd33]

Do the Sixers even want more picks??
I think they should try and trade for a reliable veteran.

thats why I think they turned us down when it was widely reported we offered a package built around the Brooklyn pick for okafor at the trade deadline. 

#1 - they couldn't move a star center prospect until they knew if Embiid would be healthy

#2 - it was considered a weak draft and okafor was a superior prospect to pretty much everyone in it other than Ben Simmons and maybe ingram.

#3 - for a team trying to shake the "tanking" image of Hinkie, how could the new regime possibly trade away their best player for a future draft asset and not get absolutely torched by the media?  There's no way they could do that and not look like fools.  That's exactly the kind of move that media made Hinkie into a monster for.

Hence why they turned down the offer.  It would be much easier for them to move okafor for a pick this year because the fans are in deep love with Embiid and they are selling out all their home games because of him.  Fans there just want to build around Embiid and Simmons now.

[LooseCannon]

A bunch of people said it and I want to believe it, therefore it must be true, is the sort of reasoning that got us a horde of idiots who thought that Obama was a Muslim born in Kenya (an idea that may have started with a comment at Free Republic).  I'm not convinced that LarBrd33 is any smarter.

Zach Lowe and Marc Stein seem to have doubted Okafor was the target.  The 76ers denied the report, although they would be expected to lie if it were true.  I personally don't think Ainge valued Okafor enough to give up a package centered around the pick.  Rumors since the trade deadline suggest both teams have significantly different views on what a fair trade would be.

[green_bballers13]

Brian Scalabrine just came up with a rumor re: Klay Thompson, and the whole country picked that rumor up too. It got a ton of publicity.

Scal mentioned the Klay thing on a broadcast. Folks reported that scal reported it.  Scal later admitted he read it on a fake news website and essentially said he shouldn't be used as a source, because he will talk about every rumor he hears even it's fake.  Scal got a stern talking to from the team itself.  There were countless articles shooting down the rumor and even tracing scal's rumor to the source.   Someone from the warriors completely dismissed the Klay Thompson rumors as fiction.  It was a nonsense rumor that scal undermined his credibility as a media guy by exposing it to a large audience.  It was a career mistake that he will likely not repeat.

It's an act of grasping at straws and desperately clinging to a narrative that "i think okafor sucks so I want to believe the Celtics also think he sucks" to try to compare that with the bulpett report.   Bulpett reported it.  Others reported it.  Nobody wrote alternative reports. Nobody from either team disputed it.  Nobody questioned bulpetts credibility.   It happened. It was an honest report. Time to accept it and move on.

Clay was making the point that others didn't report it, they were just echoing what Bulpett said. Your retort was that Bulpett reported it, and others reported it.

Who are the others?