Rumor: Raptors interested in Noel

[jpotter33]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

[LarBrd33]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's less about someone like Griffin who I doubt leaves Los Angeles.  I think Gordon Hayward is a legit possibility, though. 

Still want to figure out what Noel's cap hold would be if we gave him a qualifying offer.   I thought I had read that it's possible to get Noel and still have flexibility for a max contract.

[tazzmaniac]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's less about someone like Griffin who I doubt leaves Los Angeles.  I think Gordon Hayward is a legit possibility, though. 

Still want to figure out what Noel's cap hold would be if we gave him a qualifying offer.   I thought I had read that it's possible to get Noel and still have flexibility for a max contract.

I think Noel's cap hold would be 250% of his current salary which would be around 10M.  I don't think we can afford a Max contract with Olynyk's cap hold unless the Nets 1st is a lot worse than expected.   

[Rosco917]

Danny needs to stop sitting his hands, in this case.

[LarBrd33]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

[Big333223]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

In Noel's case, I don't see how his value is going to go anywhere but down in the meantime, though.As good as Rodriguez is, he's already 30. He's not this team's PG of the future. That guy is likely coming in next year's draft. Might as well pick up the best prospect you can get for Noel as long as he's still worth something.

[LarBrd33]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

In Noel's case, I don't see how his value is going to go anywhere but down in the meantime, though.As good as Rodriguez is, he's already 30. He's not this team's PG of the future. That guy is likely coming in next year's draft. Might as well pick up the best prospect you can get for Noel as long as he's still worth something.

I don't think his trade value can go anywhere but up from now until February.   If he comes back and plays a few healthy games, you gotta assume he'll be worth more than he is right now with still weeks left of rehab.

[footey]

Apparently, he's "very available" right now with Embiid's great play so far, too.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2674081-nerlens-noel-trade-rumors-latest-news-speculation-surrounding-76ers-center

I think Danny needs to pull the trigger on this. Losing Rozier would suck, but I think we need Noel's rebounding and perimeter D and mobility more than Rozier in the second unit. It also would keep him away from a competitor. Apparently, as of this morning we're SECOND in the NBA in offensive rating and 28TH in defensive rating.

I love Rozier, but I think Rozier for Noel is a home run.

The only issue with adding Noel is, the C's will essentially be pricing themselves out of a max free agent if they bring on Noel, unless they are willing to let Noel walk to sign a max guy.

Also, let's say the Kings decide to trade Boogie and want Rozier, you don't want to have moved Rozier in a Noel deal before Boogie becomes available.

Regarding the free agent deal, I don't think we'd have a problem letting Noel walk if it meant getting a Griffin type. We wouldn't have given up that much for Noel in the first place, and I think the wins he'd add us would only make us that more attractive to free agents.

Regarding the trade issue, that is a legitimate concern that I've worried about myself. However, after watching most of the Kings games and reading up on them, it's seeming less and less likely that their management could actually do the right thing in that regard. I think they're too attached to him, no matter how bad they'll be this season. Further, while I do think they would absolutely want Rozier, I also don't think it's a deal breaker, especially with the promise that Brown is showing. And finally, while I'm not certain how I feel about this theory, there are some on here that think Noel would actually be a big piece of a Boogie deal due to Divac's love of centers and big men.

Did you just imply that we include Brown in a trade for Cousins?  Over my dead body.

[celticsclay]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

Remember when we had bayless? He should have been our point guard of the future

[footey]

If Ainge could get Noel for some of the offers fans imagine, I think he'd already be a Celtic.   Go get him, Danny.

When you say this you realize I shared a blog of the trades proposed by an author at liberty ballers? (with pretty much all the posters agreeing they were fair deals). When in the history of fandom has a team's fans collectively undervalued their own player? That just isn't something that happens because it doesn't make logical sense.

the blogger on liberty ballers doesn't make the decisions for the 76ers. 

Fans undervalue their players all the time.  Ainge consistently exceeds my expectations of what he gets for his assets.  Most felt KG and Pierce were worthless before Ainge pulled off his Brooklyn heist.

Fans almost exclusively overvalue their own players. Have you considered that the "fans" you're referring to might just be one specific fan?

theres no consensus amongst Philly fans on their own players.  Some hate okafor.  Some hate Noel.  Some want to keep both. Some want to trade both.  On the sixers subreddit there was a post this week of a fan saying the team desperately needs Noel back.  Nobody really knows what Noel's trade value is.  I still think Jordan Clarkson for Noel makes sense, but that can't happen until December.

All we know is that there is a market for Noel.  The report says the raptors want him. Not surprised.  Nobody really knows what philly would want for him if they decide to trade him.  It's clearly more than any team has offered - or Noel wouldn't be on Philly still.  Widely reported that Boston had made offers for both Noel and okafor.  Clearly none of the offers were enough.

Or it could be that the Sixers are desperately trying to dump him and there are no takers. You have no clue.

[Big333223]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

In Noel's case, I don't see how his value is going to go anywhere but down in the meantime, though.As good as Rodriguez is, he's already 30. He's not this team's PG of the future. That guy is likely coming in next year's draft. Might as well pick up the best prospect you can get for Noel as long as he's still worth something.

I don't think his trade value can go anywhere but up from now until February.   If he comes back and plays a few healthy games, you gotta assume he'll be worth more than he is right now with still weeks left of rehab.

I think what he's got in his favor is how well he played as a center 2 years ago and how versatile he was as a defender last season, playing out of position a lot. The farther we get from that, the worse for his value. Even if he comes back healthy and plays some games, he won't he won't be getting many minutes and those that he do are likely to be played out of position and for a losing team he doesn't want any part of. The likelihood of that improving his stock, I think is slim.

[celticsclay]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see the Noel Trade saga stretch out for a couple more months.  If I'm them, I still wouldn't move Noel yet.  Sergio Roriguez kinda looks decent running the point and Jarrod Bayless still hasn't played.  They don't know if they really need another PG or not.  Especially considering Ben Simmons is expected to control the ball for them.  They will need shooters around Simmons... not playmakers.  Plus you really don't want to jinx Embiid's health by trading the other bigs already.  I think they need to wait a bit longer.

In Noel's case, I don't see how his value is going to go anywhere but down in the meantime, though.As good as Rodriguez is, he's already 30. He's not this team's PG of the future. That guy is likely coming in next year's draft. Might as well pick up the best prospect you can get for Noel as long as he's still worth something.

I don't think his trade value can go anywhere but up from now until February.   If he comes back and plays a few healthy games, you gotta assume he'll be worth more than he is right now with still weeks left of rehab.

I think what he's got in his favor is how well he played as a center 2 years ago and how versatile he was as a defender last season, playing out of position a lot. The farther we get from that, the worse for his value. Even if he comes back healthy and plays some games, he won't he won't be getting many minutes and those that he do are likely to be played out of position and for a losing team he doesn't want any part of. The likelihood of that improving his stock, I think is slim.

most philly fans are convinced Noel has played his last game as a 76er

[LarBrd33]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's less about someone like Griffin who I doubt leaves Los Angeles.  I think Gordon Hayward is a legit possibility, though. 

Still want to figure out what Noel's cap hold would be if we gave him a qualifying offer.   I thought I had read that it's possible to get Noel and still have flexibility for a max contract.

11 mil.

So here's how the salary would break down.

Horford - 27.7 mil, Bradley 8.8 mil, Thomas, 6.3 mil, Crowder, 6.8 mil, Brown, 4.9 mil, Smart, 4.5 mil, Rozier 2 mil. 

That's about 61 mil in guaranteed contracts (you'd say goodbye to Amir, Zeller, Jerebko, Young, Gerald Green, Jackson.... and possibly Olynyk)

Hypothetically if you moved Rozier + a 1st for Noel, you'd replace Rozier's 2 mil with Noel's 11 mil cap hold you're looking at 70 mil on the books. 

Salary cap is supposed to be about 102 mil... so that still gives you about 32 mil in cap space to offer a max deal. 

We have Brooklyn's pick this year so even if it ends up #1, we're looking at cap hold of 5 mil max for the pick.   That'd still leave 27 mil in cap space... enough to add a max player.

So it seems to me we could have a team of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Noel, Brown, Smart, 2017 Brooklyn 1st and still have 27 mil in cap space to add a max player like Blake Griffin.

Olynyk's cap hold is 7.7 mil... if we choose to keep him, we're looking at more like 19 mil in cap space.  Is that enough to get Hayward?

Seems to me we'd have a window after giving Noel a qualifying offer where we'd still have cap space for a max contract.   Then we could exceed the cap to sign Noel to a larger deal if he commands that type of money.

[celticsclay]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's less about someone like Griffin who I doubt leaves Los Angeles.  I think Gordon Hayward is a legit possibility, though. 

Still want to figure out what Noel's cap hold would be if we gave him a qualifying offer.   I thought I had read that it's possible to get Noel and still have flexibility for a max contract.

11 mil.

So here's how the salary would break down.

Horford - 27.7 mil, Bradley 8.8 mil, Thomas, 6.3 mil, Crowder, 6.8 mil, Brown, 4.9 mil, Smart, 4.5 mil, Rozier 2 mil. 

That's about 61 mil in guaranteed contracts (you'd say goodbye to Amir, Zeller, Jerebko, Young, Gerald Green, Jackson.... and possibly Olynyk)

Hypothetically if you moved Rozier + a 1st for Noel, you'd replace Rozier's 2 mil with Noel's 11 mil cap hold you're looking at 70 mil on the books. 

Salary cap is supposed to be about 102 mil... so that still gives you about 32 mil in cap space to offer a max deal. 

We have Brooklyn's pick this year so even if it ends up #1, we're looking at cap hold of 5 mil max for the pick.   That'd still leave 27 mil in cap space... enough to add a max player.

So it seems to me we could have a team of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Noel, Brown, Smart, 2017 Brooklyn 1st and still have 27 mil in cap space to add a max player like Blake Griffin.

Olynyk's cap hold is 7.7 mil... if we choose to keep him, we're looking at more like 19 mil in cap space.  Is that enough to get Hayward?

Seems to me we'd have a window after giving Noel a qualifying offer where we'd still have cap space for a max contract.   Then we could exceed the cap to sign Noel to a larger deal if he commands that type of money.

you did a lot of work here and math and. Body responded. To and let's hope we get him cheap

[jpotter33]

There's a rumor that the 76ers are asking for Cory Joseph and a 1st rounder.   I guess Joseph would make sense as he would give them a decent point guard, but really  Joseph isn't much of a shooter.    I  would assume the 1st rounder would be either a late Raptors pick for the Clippers 1st they own.

If that's really what Philly is willing to settle for, isn't Terry Rozier and a late 1st a comparable package? 

Would you guys offer that if you were Ainge?  I'm kind of falling for Rozier.  His shooting continues to be outstanding... but I still think adding Noel to this team would make us scary defensively.

Value wise, I think that is a great deal for the C's.

My only issue is that deal kind of locks us into the team we have long term. If we wanted to go after a max player we would need to let Noel walk for nothing after trading for him.

Losing Rozier would hurt but there are a lot of point guards in the upcomming draft that would make us forget about Rozier. For example if we drafted Fultz, Rozier becomes kind of redundant.

DOes anyone know for certain what the cap hold on Noel would be this Summer if we gave him the qualifying offer?   Because I thought we'd still technically have a window of time where we could renounce the rights to guys like Amir/Jerebko and even with Noel's cap hold be able to go after a big contract.

I agree that if Noel's contract kills our chance to offer a max deal, it's probably something I wouldn't do.

If anything, we could always just renounce our rights to him if a Griffin type would show interest in us, since we wouldn't want to pay him big money anyways if we got Griffin.

Of course, he could complicate things by signing an offer sheet right out of free agency, but if he would work with us a bit, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It's less about someone like Griffin who I doubt leaves Los Angeles.  I think Gordon Hayward is a legit possibility, though. 

Still want to figure out what Noel's cap hold would be if we gave him a qualifying offer.   I thought I had read that it's possible to get Noel and still have flexibility for a max contract.

11 mil.

So here's how the salary would break down.

Horford - 27.7 mil, Bradley 8.8 mil, Thomas, 6.3 mil, Crowder, 6.8 mil, Brown, 4.9 mil, Smart, 4.5 mil, Rozier 2 mil. 

That's about 61 mil in guaranteed contracts (you'd say goodbye to Amir, Zeller, Jerebko, Young, Gerald Green, Jackson.... and possibly Olynyk)

Hypothetically if you moved Rozier + a 1st for Noel, you'd replace Rozier's 2 mil with Noel's 11 mil cap hold you're looking at 70 mil on the books. 

Salary cap is supposed to be about 102 mil... so that still gives you about 32 mil in cap space to offer a max deal. 

We have Brooklyn's pick this year so even if it ends up #1, we're looking at cap hold of 5 mil max for the pick.   That'd still leave 27 mil in cap space... enough to add a max player.

So it seems to me we could have a team of Thomas, Bradley, Crowder, Horford, Noel, Brown, Smart, 2017 Brooklyn 1st and still have 27 mil in cap space to add a max player like Blake Griffin.

Olynyk's cap hold is 7.7 mil... if we choose to keep him, we're looking at more like 19 mil in cap space.  Is that enough to get Hayward?

Seems to me we'd have a window after giving Noel a qualifying offer where we'd still have cap space for a max contract.   Then we could exceed the cap to sign Noel to a larger deal if he commands that type of money.

I believe rookie contracts go up this year by like 50% or something with the new CBA, so it could be a significant amount more.