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What are we?
« on: October 15, 2016, 01:44:36 AM »

Offline Royrebirth

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I think we're in a strange position right now where we have a talented starting 5 and a promising core of future talent.

My problem is - talent needs playing time to develop. Sure, we can slide in and maybe get Smart/Rozier/Brown/[Future 2017 Nets Pick] ~ 20, 25 minutes in the best case scenario, but do you think this is going to hinder their growth?

I'm going to take a player like Jimmy Butler as an example. Yeah, he was a bench player for a while, but only after given the chance to start and run with the wolves did he show that "promise" and develop into a star.

If Smart/Rozier/Brown/[Future 2017 Nets Pick] start showing promise, who do they replace in the lineup? I feel like the dynamics of this team would change greatly if we removed Thomas from the lineup or someone integral to the identity of this team like Crowder.

Also, eventually, we're going to have to extend/re-sign these young players and veterans, and it's going to be a nightmare for Danny. So I think inevitably, we're going to have to consolidate and trade people away. In the meanwhile however, I just think our young players are promising, but they're not going to be given that chance to truly become a "star" in my opinion.

Example: I'm not saying Smart or Rozier should start over AB right now, but if Smart or Rozier gets AB's minutes and role, don't you think it's very possible for them to develop faster into something more complete than AB? You get better by playing against better talent - by playing them against 2nd units, are we, in a way, limiting their growth?

What do you think?

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Re: What are we?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2016, 04:11:07 AM »

Offline Greyman

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AB delivers more than Smart at this point. If Smart makes a leap this season maybe AB's position becomes a little bit more open to scrutiny but right now he is one of the first names picked and a capable starter on a team looking to achieve new highs.

Overall though I think the Celtics have a great combination of experience, ability, potential and an outstanding coach. despite the love that many have for Smart and his defence, I think this a very important season for him. Apart from his defence he isn't bringing anything else that isn't done as well or better by other team members. Though I admit few players show his commitment level and ability to drive his team mates.

The overall question the season will answer for me is 'do we really need that extra star player or how much do we need him'? If this season is little better than last (or worse obviously) it will be a surprise and disappointment. I am feeling that this team might actually be closer to being a serious contender than people think. Maybe it is wishful thinking but my expectations are high and having IT, AB, TR and Smart contributes to that.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2016, 07:58:26 AM »

Offline chambers

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I was thinking about this in the second half of the Nets game watching Smart, Rozier and Brown out on the floor together with Mickey.

If everything pans out, we could have 3 All Star caliber players right there.

As you state, we won't really get a chance to see them pan out if they don't get enough minutes.
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"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.
Re: What are we?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2016, 09:04:05 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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We are Devo
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2016, 09:25:37 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Quote from: Greyman on October 15, 2016, 04:11:07 AM
AB delivers more than Smart at this point. If Smart makes a leap this season maybe AB's position becomes a little bit more open to scrutiny but right now he is one of the first names picked and a capable starter on a team looking to achieve new highs.

Overall though I think the Celtics have a great combination of experience, ability, potential and an outstanding coach. despite the love that many have for Smart and his defence, I think this a very important season for him. Apart from his defence he isn't bringing anything else that isn't done as well or better by other team members. Though I admit few players show his commitment level and ability to drive his team mates.

The overall question the season will answer for me is 'do we really need that extra star player or how much do we need him'? If this season is little better than last (or worse obviously) it will be a surprise and disappointment. I am feeling that this team might actually be closer to being a serious contender than people think. Maybe it is wishful thinking but my expectations are high and having IT, AB, TR and Smart contributes to that.

I agree with this and think Smart will get a decent amount of time at SF. In the future if Smart and Rozier continue to improve and are able to become starters I assume C's will have to move at least 1 if not 2 of: IT, AB, Smart, Rozier. My guess is to bring in another big.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2016, 09:56:15 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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You don't need starter minutes to develop.  Jimmy Butler developed enough each season to earn more playing time and responsibility until he finally broke out in his 4th season.  What you do need is actual meaningful NBA minutes.  D League and NBA garbage time doesn't help much. 

As for the players you mention, Smart has gotten 27 MP in each of his 1st two season.  That's more than enough for his development.  With Turner gone, Rozier is going to get backup PG minutes.  He needs to step up and earn the backup PG job before he gets talked about as a starter.  Brown is just a rookie and a young one at that.  Hopefully he continues to play well and he earns some meaningful minutes this season but he has plenty of time to develop.  He shouldn't be rushed. 

The player's that need more meaningful minutes to prove themselves are Young, Hunter, Mickey...    The Sixers chose Richaun Holmes after both Mickey and Hunter.  With the Sixers situation, Holmes got meaningful minutes albeit on a bad NBA team.  He looked pretty good with some obvious flaws.  This preseason he appears to have addressed one of those flaws (rebounding).  Personally, I preferred Holmes over Mickey but maybe if the situations were reversed Mickey would be the one looking like an NBA player. 
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2016, 10:00:48 AM »

Offline timpiker

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I'm not going to worry about.  I'm just going to sit back, watch and enjoy.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2016, 10:21:17 AM »

Offline Redz

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Quote from: SHAQATTACK on October 15, 2016, 09:04:05 AM
We are Devo

I'm thinking I'm in the minority of people who got the reference  ;D
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Yup
Re: What are we?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2016, 10:30:07 AM »

Offline Rhyso

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I can agree with this, sometimes I wonder if Stevens system hinders some player development in ball handling and Isolation play. Could also be argued we don't have the young talent to play this way though. Whilst a lot of isolation ball is obviously not a good thing, it is definately needed at times when an offense becomes stagnent (see our playoffs offense the last 2 years, nothing but bricked 3 pointers).

Don't get me wrong I think coach is doing a great job, but I would like to see Smart in particular get a few more iso/pick and roll plays in, as his pull up mid range shot and his driving ability is looking good IMO. Same eventually with Brown. Bradley got a lot of shots in at the start of the rebuild and has benefited from it greatley.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2016, 11:01:53 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Quote from: Redz on October 15, 2016, 10:21:17 AM
Quote from: SHAQATTACK on October 15, 2016, 09:04:05 AM
We are Devo

I'm thinking I'm in the minority of people who got the reference  ;D

TP ...  for living as long as me.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2016, 11:06:12 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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AB's way ahead of Smart and Rozier for them to consider starting either over him right now. I do get your point of having to mix in guys more. Yet as another poster said Smart is getting a great chunk of minutes. I also don't think this bench is developed enough for a deep playoff run but things may change by then.

A huge positive is this team is a mix of now in the starters, and the future in their bench. They are a team that isn't even close to peak yet because of that. In two years Cavs will be declining and that might be the C's time to take the top spot.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2016, 12:52:35 PM »

Offline fantankerous

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All of our young guys are in the perfect situation to develop.  If they don't reach their ceiling, it's not the fault of the system or roster makeup.
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Re: What are we?
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2016, 01:09:13 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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One more star away from being a great team, right now we are a good team.
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Re: What are we?TD
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2016, 10:54:01 PM »

Offline DoubleP34

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I'm confident we are a 2 seed, but the East will be really competitive this year.
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