How bad is Okafor's defense...

[coffee425]

I just saw Nick Sciria's tweets/clips about Okafor's defense..
I knew it was statistically bad, but to watch them on video, it's pretty embarrassing.

Of course there are some fundamentals he needs to improve on, but he's also got James Young's concrete feet. Not sure if there's anything to improve there unless he decides to drop 40 pounds.

For those that havent seen it, LibertyBallers compiled them together here.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2016/7/29/12317906/okafor-defense-video-analysis

[LooseCannon]

This should be quoted for those who won't read the link:

Nick then went on to talk about the likelihood that Okafor's defense would improve. As with most things with a 20-year-old rookie, it is very likely to. The real question is how much will it improve? Nick cited a Nylon Calculus article that I have also mentioned in regards to Okafor, which showed the amount that big men tend to improve in the few years following their rookie year on D.

"[The author] concluded that big men like Okafor tend to remain in the negatives in terms of defensive impact," Nick wrote. "[He] also noted that Okafor's best-case scenario is about average defensive production. The first development that needs to happen with Okafor would be an increase in effort if he is to become passable on defense."

"However, I'm a little wary about that happening," Nick continued. "Brett Brown gets his guys to play their tails off. Jah is a clear outlier in that regard."

The last bit should be concerning.  Brad Stevens is not a miracle worker.  If you give him an elite offense weapon who won't try hard on defense, I think that player ends up spending more time on the bench than some might expect.

[Smartacus]

The one factor that lends itself well to Okafor performing better defensively on our team than in Philly is Horford. Nerlens Noel is a defensive savant who succeeds on the defensive end thanks to his athletesism and inherent sense of timing. Okafor could benefit from Noel covering up his mistakes but he's not going to learn anything from him, especially considering Noel isn't known for being a vocal leader.

Bring Jah to Boston to learn under Horford and not only will Horford cover up his mistakes but he seems like the kind of guy that will work with Okafor to correct them. Jah's never going to be Alonzo Mourning out there but IMO if you could teach him to take up space around the right spots it's possible he could become the type of guy that isn't a huge liability on D while outplaying his matchup on offense.

I'm still in the anti Okafor camp but Horford's presence on the team makes the idea much more palatable.

[crimson_stallion]

I noticed this via the eye test the instant he came into the league, long before any of those horrendous statistics showed up. The latter only confirmed what I knew from day one.

Jahlil Okafor is one of the slowest big men I have seen in the NBA.  Even if you just throw on some simple highlight videos of Okafor's better offensive performances in the league, it's painfully obvious that he moves with all the agility of a Mack truck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1AvNpo411Q

He has impressive footwork on offense, a very nice touch around the basket, and clearly knows how to finish in the paint - there is no denying that.  He has a very high skill level in the post without question, but he's horribly slow for a 20 year old - even one with his size. 

For comparison purposes, watch some highlihg videos of Greg Monroe from last season - a guy who is a very similar style of player to Okafor (6'11" and 250 pounds, not very athletic, plays below the rim, primarily an inside scorer, defensively limited):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEelVX1DV7c

From these videos you cans see both guys running the floor. Seing Okafor at 0:19 I'm not sure if  he's lazy, out of breath, or if he is just genuinely that slow...but he looks like he has no interest at all in getting back to the other end of the court.  Similar scenario at 0:59 in Monroe's highlights - he sprints hard to get back on offense, and I'm actually pleasantly surprised by his footspeed - he gets back very quickly for a man of his size.  He does it again at right after that, at 1:16.  There isn't a single highlight in the Okafor video that shows him sprinting back like that - looking at the two side by side they look like chalk and cheese, Monroe makes Jahlil Okafor's effort look downright embarrassing.

The video also showcases their quickness.  At 2:31 Monroe manages to pull off a quick spin move - he's quick enough to beat his defender, forcing another defender has to come over to help.  He pulls off a similar spin move at 3:05 and is able to beat his defender (this time, Drayond Green) again, getting all the way to the basket for an easy layup.  Okafor tries a similar moves in his highlight video at the 1:00 mark and 2:03 mark, but in both cases he's too slow to shake his defender.  He eventually scores anyway thanks to some nice footwork (in the former case) and his superior length (in the latter case), but regardless of this the footage clearly demonstrates that Okafor is much less agile then Monroe.   

When you consider the fact that Monroe 4-5 years older then Okafor and is known for his lack of athleticism/mobility, seeing such a dramatic difference between those two guys is more then a little concerning.

On the plus side Okafor is able to use his length (7'5" wingspan) to bail himself out from time to time which Monroe (7'2" wingspan) can't do nearly as effectively - so there is the odd occasion where Okafor is able to cover up a horrible defensive possession with a lucky last minute block, or cover up his lack of footspeed on offense by simply shooting over a guy.  However that still doesn't put to rest my significant concerns over Okafor's  complete lack of mobility.

In fact, if you look at highlights of a 40 year old, 350 pound Shaquille O'neal (see: 1:50, 2:04 and 4:05 below) he honestly doesn't look much less mobile in some of those shots then Okafor does right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x-6gVWBQv0

Personally I think Okafor's biggest problem is his conditioning.  He doesn't look Sully-bad by any means, but to be completely honest he looks like he's about 75%-80% of the way there.  He physique looks soft/squishy, he moves very slowly, and appears winded far more often then a 20 year old athlete should. If he could drop 10-15 pounds I think his game would improve dramatically, but it's hard to say if that will ever happen because on the court he just doesn't look all that motivated.  He looks lazy - he doesn't look like he wants to run, or battle for rebounds, or dive for loose balls.  He looks like he believes he doesn't NEED to do those things, because he can depend on his length/bulk to get him by.

I'm not a fan of his attitude and I'm not a fan of his body language - it leaves me cause for concern that he's going to be another Sully...a hugely skilled big man who could be so much, but was just never cared enough.

[LarBrd33]

Physically, he has the capacity to be an average defender.  Lack of experience was an issue.  Lack of surrounding talent was an issue.  I assume motivation was also a major issue.  Mentally, it had to be a challenge for a rookie to give it 110% out there knowing that there was a massive cloud hovering over on whether or not he'd factor into the team's long-term plans.  That, and it was widely out in the open the franchise was trying to tank and the team was made up of d-leaguers.  The whole situation was a sham.  Why bother?

I assume we'll see more effort as they start to build an actual basketball team there. 

I agree with the summary of the "Okafor Defensive Analysis" article that Coffee425 shared:

In Nick's opinion, and mine, Okafor's current weaknesses don't preclude him from becoming the franchise player the Sixers hope he'll be.

[Celtics4ever]

Physically, he has the capacity to be an average defender.  Lack of experience was an issue.  Lack of surrounding talent was an issue.  I assume motivation was also a major issue.  Mentally, it had to be a challenge for a rookie to give it 110% out there knowing that there was a massive cloud hovering over on whether or not he'd factor into the team's long-term plans.  That, and it was widely out in the open the franchise was trying to tank and the team was made up of d-leaguers.  The whole situation was a sham.  Why bother?

I agree, people act like he is a ten year veteran.   The guy was a rookie.  I think honestly, the jury is still out on him.   He has room to improve.    If we had a guy who shot over 50% and went for 17 PPG and 7 RPG here we would be happy.   But since it happened elsewhere, the guy is a bum to some people in this thread.   That is double standard.  The guy has room to serve.   I think he would be an upgrade over what we had at Center last year.

[2short]

It's better than James hardens!

[moiso]

It's better than James hardens!

True!

[__ramonezy__]

Im not sure why everyone focuses solely on a player's weaknesses and not their strengths. A good coach can maximize their output and we have one of the best. Two years ago most persons wanted Kevin Love... I put Okafor in the same category defensively,  but even more versatile as he adds another dimension to our offense... a legitimate low post presence. In the playoffs when the game slows down this is important. Most of the centers that we feel okafor can't guard can be handled by our other big on the floor or play a zone that limits the area he has to cover.

if the price is right I would love him here. We already have a team of defensive studs... now i want someone who can flat out score

[danglertx]

Im not sure why everyone focuses solely on a player's weaknesses and not their strengths. A good coach can maximize their output and we have one of the best. Two years ago most persons wanted Kevin Love... I put Okafor in the same category defensively,  but even more versatile as he adds another dimension to our offense... a legitimate low post presence. In the playoffs when the game slows down this is important. Most of the centers that we feel okafor can't guard can be handled by our other big on the floor or play a zone that limits the area he has to cover.

if the price is right I would love him here. We already have a team of defensive studs... now i want someone who can flat out score

Okafor's offense is more versatile than Kevin Love's?  I beg to differ.

[Eddie20]

Physically, he has the capacity to be an average defender.  Lack of experience was an issue.  Lack of surrounding talent was an issue.  I assume motivation was also a major issue.  Mentally, it had to be a challenge for a rookie to give it 110% out there knowing that there was a massive cloud hovering over on whether or not he'd factor into the team's long-term plans.  That, and it was widely out in the open the franchise was trying to tank and the team was made up of d-leaguers.  The whole situation was a sham.  Why bother?

I agree, people act like he is a ten year veteran.   The guy was a rookie.  I think honestly, the jury is still out on him.   He has room to improve.    If we had a guy who shot over 50% and went for 17 PPG and 7 RPG here we would be happy.   But since it happened elsewhere, the guy is a bum to some people in this thread.   That is double standard.  The guy has room to serve.   I think he would be an upgrade over what we had at Center last year.

When you're playing on a lottery team someone has to score. It's just the way things go. So putting such great emphasis on scoring is really shortsighted. However, put him on a playoff team and not only will the scoring decrease considerably due to less opportunity (last year Okafor had a higher usage rate than Chris Paul!), but he would still give you the same crappy defense and below average rebounding. His rebound percentage was lower than Tyler Zeller's.

Where he ranked in other analytics-

Defensive +/-  #354

Offensive +/- #361
 
Defensive win shares #256

Offensive win shares #302

Value over replacement player #466


Those numbers are pathetic. If you look at only his rankings, ignoring the name, you would think it was some journeymen/end of the bench guy. With the way teams value analytics it's no wonder they aren't exactly knocking down the Sixers doors with trade offers. Then factor in his off the court issues, recent knee surgery, documented laziness, and poor fit for today's modern game and it's easy to see why his value has plummeted.

[Moranis]

Physically, he has the capacity to be an average defender.  Lack of experience was an issue.  Lack of surrounding talent was an issue.  I assume motivation was also a major issue.  Mentally, it had to be a challenge for a rookie to give it 110% out there knowing that there was a massive cloud hovering over on whether or not he'd factor into the team's long-term plans.  That, and it was widely out in the open the franchise was trying to tank and the team was made up of d-leaguers.  The whole situation was a sham.  Why bother?

I agree, people act like he is a ten year veteran.   The guy was a rookie.  I think honestly, the jury is still out on him.   He has room to improve.    If we had a guy who shot over 50% and went for 17 PPG and 7 RPG here we would be happy.   But since it happened elsewhere, the guy is a bum to some people in this thread.   That is double standard.  The guy has room to serve.   I think he would be an upgrade over what we had at Center last year.

When you're playing on a lottery team someone has to score. It's just the way things go. So putting such great emphasis on scoring is really shortsighted. However, put him on a playoff team and not only will the scoring decrease considerably due to less opportunity (last year Okafor had a higher usage rate than Chris Paul!), but he would still give you the same crappy defense and below average rebounding. His rebound percentage was lower than Tyler Zeller's.

Where he ranked in other analytics-

Defensive +/-  #354

Offensive +/- #361
 
Defensive win shares #256

Offensive win shares #302

Value over replacement player #466


Those numbers are pathetic. If you look at only his rankings, ignoring the name, you would think it was some journeymen/end of the bench guy. With the way teams value analytics it's no wonder they aren't exactly knocking down the Sixers doors with trade offers. Then factor in his off the court issues, recent knee surgery, documented laziness, and poor fit for today's modern game and it's easy to see why his value has plummeted.

His scoring efficiency though would have been significantly better such that his overall offensive rank would have improved significantly and his overall numbers might not have dropped that much.  I mean take a guy like Kyrie Irving, usage drops down about 2%, but his efficiency goes up significantly and ends up scoring about a point more on 1 less shot per game playing next to James that first year than playing without James the prior year. 

You can't just focus on the bad things when you talk about playing on a better team.  Almost across the board throughout the entire history of the league a player's efficiency increases when he has less of an offensive burden and is less a focus of the defense.  Given that Okafor was already an excellent mid-range shooting big man and a fairly respectable shooter overall as a rookie on a terrible team and as the #1 option, you would expect his efficiency to go into an elite range with him getting the ball in better positions to score (which would happen on a better team).  He would become an elite offensive player, something you can't just ignore in this situation.  Also a good bet that he would try a bit more defensively playing on a better team with better teammates.

[Granath]

It's better than James hardens!

A bullfighter would play better NBA defense than Harden. Ole'!

We keep rehashing the Okafor subject over and over again. As an individual, he showed promise last year especially on the offensive end of the court. As a team player he was horrible. By any metric and to anyone watching any of their games, Okafor was horrible on the defensive end of the floor. Part of that is due to age, part of that is due to skill and part of that is due to environment. How much of each is up to each individual person.

Would we be thrilled to have a rookie put up 17/7 this year? You betcha. However, putting up 17/7 on a 50 win team is significantly different than putting up 17/7 on a team that is one of the 5 worst in NBA history. So throwing out 17 points per game isn't impressive in the least. If that is going to be the core of someone's advocacy, they need to come up with a better argument.

I'm all for getting Okafor for the right price. The #3 pick + Smart/Bradley that some people were throwing around prior to the draft was laughable. The #3 pick alone was laughable. The Brooklyn pick next year is entirely off limits. But if Philly wanted to make a deal involving some of our 2018 picks or a deal with perhaps one of our young guards and/or a pick I would be in favor of that deal.

[Eddie20]

Physically, he has the capacity to be an average defender.  Lack of experience was an issue.  Lack of surrounding talent was an issue.  I assume motivation was also a major issue.  Mentally, it had to be a challenge for a rookie to give it 110% out there knowing that there was a massive cloud hovering over on whether or not he'd factor into the team's long-term plans.  That, and it was widely out in the open the franchise was trying to tank and the team was made up of d-leaguers.  The whole situation was a sham.  Why bother?

I agree, people act like he is a ten year veteran.   The guy was a rookie.  I think honestly, the jury is still out on him.   He has room to improve.    If we had a guy who shot over 50% and went for 17 PPG and 7 RPG here we would be happy.   But since it happened elsewhere, the guy is a bum to some people in this thread.   That is double standard.  The guy has room to serve.   I think he would be an upgrade over what we had at Center last year.

When you're playing on a lottery team someone has to score. It's just the way things go. So putting such great emphasis on scoring is really shortsighted. However, put him on a playoff team and not only will the scoring decrease considerably due to less opportunity (last year Okafor had a higher usage rate than Chris Paul!), but he would still give you the same crappy defense and below average rebounding. His rebound percentage was lower than Tyler Zeller's.

Where he ranked in other analytics-

Defensive +/-  #354

Offensive +/- #361
 
Defensive win shares #256

Offensive win shares #302

Value over replacement player #466


Those numbers are pathetic. If you look at only his rankings, ignoring the name, you would think it was some journeymen/end of the bench guy. With the way teams value analytics it's no wonder they aren't exactly knocking down the Sixers doors with trade offers. Then factor in his off the court issues, recent knee surgery, documented laziness, and poor fit for today's modern game and it's easy to see why his value has plummeted.

His scoring efficiency though would have been significantly better such that his overall offensive rank would have improved significantly and his overall numbers might not have dropped that much.  I mean take a guy like Kyrie Irving, usage drops down about 2%, but his efficiency goes up significantly and ends up scoring about a point more on 1 less shot per game playing next to James that first year than playing without James the prior year. 

You can't just focus on the bad things when you talk about playing on a better team.  Almost across the board throughout the entire history of the league a player's efficiency increases when he has less of an offensive burden and is less a focus of the defense.  Given that Okafor was already an excellent mid-range shooting big man and a fairly respectable shooter overall as a rookie on a terrible team and as the #1 option, you would expect his efficiency to go into an elite range with him getting the ball in better positions to score (which would happen on a better team).  He would become an elite offensive player, something you can't just ignore in this situation.  Also a good bet that he would try a bit more defensively playing on a better team with better teammates.

He is?

10 to 16 feet
35%

16 to 23 feet
27%

FT shooting
68%

[__ramonezy__]

Im not sure why everyone focuses solely on a player's weaknesses and not their strengths. A good coach can maximize their output and we have one of the best. Two years ago most persons wanted Kevin Love... I put Okafor in the same category defensively,  but even more versatile as he adds another dimension to our offense... a legitimate low post presence. In the playoffs when the game slows down this is important. Most of the centers that we feel okafor can't guard can be handled by our other big on the floor or play a zone that limits the area he has to cover.

if the price is right I would love him here. We already have a team of defensive studs... now i want someone who can flat out score

Okafor's offense is more versatile than Kevin Love's?  I beg to differ.

Versatile in comparison to what we already have. I think we're trying to maximize JJ's and KO's role into a Kevin Love type player - PFs with 3-point range. We simply don't have a low post presence. Someone that when the play is broken or well-defended we can dump the ball into with 5 seconds on the shot clock and get a high percentage shot... what we got last year was Smart, Turner or Crowder taking a jumper if IT was properly cut off.