Draft is one week away, Are we okay with #3+ Avery Bradley for Jimmy Butler now?

[greenrunsdeep41]

Yea, the only way I do a deal like that is if it is 3 + Bradley for butler + their pick + pau s/t

[max215]

Yeah, I'd be happy with that, but I can't say I'd be willing to give any more than that.

[crimson_stallion]

People really underselling Bradley here. The guys is a 1st Team All-Defense averaging 15PPG. I wouldn't trade both of him and #3 for a marginal upgrade.

Marginal upgrade? 21/5/5 vs 15/3/2

There is a large difference there.

Are you only looking at the one side of the ball? Check the usg%. Butler's defensive numbers have went down too. Butler maybe a good defender, but he is not transcendent on that side that  Bradley is. If you told me I would trade Bradley for Butler a year ago, I would have taken that. But Bradley's value is high right now. You don't trade both #3 and Bradley for a player who is not that much of an upgrade on the offensive end. It's either Bradley, #3 or just leave.

Butler is a massive upgrade on the offensive end over anybody we have on our roster not names Isaiah Thomas.

 

[crimson_stallion]

Of course you do it.  Not only is Butler significantly better than Bradley, Smart can give you about 70% of what Bradley gives you anyway.

No...

MArcus Smart is a totally different player to Bradley.  If you loo at the specific things Bradley brings to this team, it's pretty much his ability to stretch the floor consistently, and his ability to apply constant full court pressure on quick ball handlers.  Smart cannot do either of those things - he's just a different type of player.

I would still do the trade, but Smart doesn't come lose to replacing Bradley.  Rozier might have a chance to if he realises his potential,

[chiken Green]

People really underselling Bradley here. The guys is a 1st Team All-Defense averaging 15PPG. I wouldn't trade both of him and #3 for a marginal upgrade.

Marginal upgrade? 21/5/5 vs 15/3/2

There is a large difference there.

Are you only looking at the one side of the ball? Check the usg%. Butler's defensive numbers have went down too. Butler maybe a good defender, but he is not transcendent on that side that  Bradley is. If you told me I would trade Bradley for Butler a year ago, I would have taken that. But Bradley's value is high right now. You don't trade both #3 and Bradley for a player who is not that much of an upgrade on the offensive end. It's either Bradley, #3 or just leave.

Butler is a massive upgrade on the offensive end over anybody we have on our roster not names Isaiah Thomas.

I think Massive upgrade is unfair to Our Team and to Bradley... How do you compare a #1 option on a non playoff team to our #2 option on an actual play off team..  So what he scored 6 more points.. he should have, his offense is geared around him.. He is the go to guy over there..

Our Go to Guy here was IT who pretty much out performed him on every level while averaging less minutes.

The Bulls had 4 guys who averaged Double figures - while our guys (on a playoff team) had 6 (meaning we run a different type of offense obviously)

Also Butler is not the 3 point shooter that Bradley is.. a CBS offense is predicated on that..

Our guy in the last 3 years is also more durable - Butler has missed nearly 50 games in the last 3 years.. averaging close to 15 days off a year.. 

Is Butler better, possibly but Massively better..  I don't see that..  And yes Butler can get better but he is a year older than Bradley so why cant Avery get better as well..

Getting Butler would be cool (though I feel he is not worth the #3 ((but I know everybody thinks this is the golden ticket for Durant so okay))  But please stop underselling AB - the guy is a player who has improved every year. He like Smart actually plays winning basketball for us... Heck Maybe as a go to on a non play off team he could average 6 more points.. Who knows..  But MASSIVE upgrade I don't believe is  the case.. More like Slight (if any)

[86MaxwellSmart]

Amir/Smart #3/#16 for Butler.

[chambers]

People really underselling Bradley here. The guys is a 1st Team All-Defense averaging 15PPG. I wouldn't trade both of him and #3 for a marginal upgrade.

Marginal upgrade? 21/5/5 vs 15/3/2

There is a large difference there.

Are you only looking at the one side of the ball? Check the usg%. Butler's defensive numbers have went down too. Butler maybe a good defender, but he is not transcendent on that side that  Bradley is. If you told me I would trade Bradley for Butler a year ago, I would have taken that. But Bradley's value is high right now. You don't trade both #3 and Bradley for a player who is not that much of an upgrade on the offensive end. It's either Bradley, #3 or just leave.

Butler is a massive upgrade on the offensive end over anybody we have on our roster not names Isaiah Thomas.

I think Massive upgrade is unfair to Our Team and to Bradley... How do you compare a #1 option on a non playoff team to our #2 option on an actual play off team..  So what he scored 6 more points.. he should have, his offense is geared around him.. He is the go to guy over there..

Our Go to Guy here was IT who pretty much out performed him on every level while averaging less minutes.

The Bulls had 4 guys who averaged Double figures - while our guys (on a playoff team) had 6 (meaning we run a different type of offense obviously)

Also Butler is not the 3 point shooter that Bradley is.. a CBS offense is predicated on that..

Our guy in the last 3 years is also more durable - Butler has missed nearly 50 games in the last 3 years.. averaging close to 15 days off a year.. 

Is Butler better, possibly but Massively better..  I don't see that..  And yes Butler can get better but he is a year older than Bradley so why cant Avery get better as well..

Getting Butler would be cool (though I feel he is not worth the #3 ((but I know everybody thinks this is the golden ticket for Durant so okay))  But please stop underselling AB - the guy is a player who has improved every year. He like Smart actually plays winning basketball for us... Heck Maybe as a go to on a non play off team he could average 6 more points.. Who knows..  But MASSIVE upgrade I don't believe is  the case.. More like Slight (if any)

Butler is the superior scorer and a far superior two way player. He isna better passer and the biggest impacts he has are creating his own offense-particularly his mid range game, complemented by his excellent ability to get to the line.
He is a top 10 scorer and top 10 defender and is an enormous upgrade to Bradley.
Bradley shot 4% better than Butler from three this year and the year bwfore Butler shot 2% better than Bradley at 37%.
Bradley gets to the line once a game and Butler gets there 7 times a game.
Jimmy is an All Star for a reason.

[crimson_stallion]

Of course you do it.  Not only is Butler significantly better than Bradley, Smart can give you about 70% of what Bradley gives you anyway.

Please, explain how butler is *significantly* better than Bradley. I'd love to hear it. Because, although he is better, significant is not the correct term. He is not a better shooter or defender or, as it seems, teammate. Also, his contract is *significantly* larger.

I really hope you are joking, but sadly I suspect you are not so here goes...


Size
Avery Bradley
- Height: 6' 3.25"
- Wingspan: 6' 7.25"
- Standing reach:  8' 2.5"
- Weight: 180 lbs

Jimmy Butler
- Height: 6' 7.7"
- Wingspan: 6' 7.5"
- Standing reach: 8' 5.5"
- Weight: 220 lbs


Playmaking
Bradley:
- AST Per36: 2.2
- TO Per36: 1.5
- AST/TO: 1.47
- AST Rate: 9.8%

Butler:
- AST Per36: 4.7
- TO Per36: 1.9
- AST/TO: 2.47
- AST Rate: 21.4%


Rebounding
Bradley
- Off Reb Per36: 0.7
- Def Reb Per36  2.4
- Tot Reb Per36: 3.1
- Reb Rate: 4.6%

Butler
- Off Reb Per36: 1.1
- Def Reb Per36: 4.1
- Tot Reb Per36: 5.2
- Reb Rate: 7.6%


Scoring
Bradley:
- Pts Per 36: 16.4
- FG%: 44.7%
- 3PT%: 36.1%
- FT%: 78% 
- FTR: 12.1%
- Pts Per FGA: 1.13

Butler:
- Pts Per 36: 20.4
- FG%: 45.4%
- 3PT%: 31.2%
- FTR: 45.9%
- FT%:  83.2%
- Pts Per FGA: 1.35


Impact
Bradley:
- Off Rtg: 105
- Def Rtg: 106
- Net Rtg: -1
- Off RPM: +1.18
- Def RPM: -1.24
- Net RPM: -0.06
- PER: 13.2

Butler:
- Off Rtg: 116
- Def Rtg: 106
- Net Rtg: +10
- Off RPM: +3.0
- Def RPM: +0.86
- Net RPM: +3.86
- PER: 21.3

Accolades
Bradley:
- 1x All Defensive Second Team
- 1x All Defensive First Team

Butler:
- 3x All Defensive Second Team
- 2x All Star

I think it's downright amusing that anybody could try to argue is Butler is not a significant upgrade over Bradley.

Defensively they are about on par, so three point shooting is really the only area where Bradley has an advantage over Butler - even then the difference is not dramatic since Butler has shot 33% for his career (versus 36% for Bradley) and has shot 38% or higher from three in two of the past four seasons. 

Is Bradley a better shooter?  Sure.  But that edge in three point shooting is nowhere near enough to make up for Butler's superiority as an overall scorer, as a playmaker, as a ball handler - and his physical advantages (and flexibility it affords) are just the icing on the cake.   

I love Bradley as a player - he's one of my favourite Celtics and has been for years.  But if you're talking about Bradley or Jimmy Butler, then you're talking about a solid starter versus a bonafide All-Star.  It's not even close.

[crimson_stallion]

People really underselling Bradley here. The guys is a 1st Team All-Defense averaging 15PPG. I wouldn't trade both of him and #3 for a marginal upgrade.

Marginal upgrade? 21/5/5 vs 15/3/2

There is a large difference there.

Are you only looking at the one side of the ball? Check the usg%. Butler's defensive numbers have went down too. Butler maybe a good defender, but he is not transcendent on that side that  Bradley is. If you told me I would trade Bradley for Butler a year ago, I would have taken that. But Bradley's value is high right now. You don't trade both #3 and Bradley for a player who is not that much of an upgrade on the offensive end. It's either Bradley, #3 or just leave.

Butler is a massive upgrade on the offensive end over anybody we have on our roster not names Isaiah Thomas.

I think Massive upgrade is unfair to Our Team and to Bradley... How do you compare a #1 option on a non playoff team to our #2 option on an actual play off team..  So what he scored 6 more points.. he should have, his offense is geared around him.. He is the go to guy over there..

You're talking about the Bulls as if they had the Net's record or something. 

Boston went 48-34 this year (0.585) and Chicago went 42-40 (0.512).  That's hardly a day and night difference in wins there.  There were times in the season where the Bulls were above Boston in the standings - they were competitive team and only just missed the playoffs.

Last year the Bulls went 50-32 (0.587) and the Celtics went 40-42 (0.488) and Butler clearly had better statistical production then Bradley did in that season. 

The season before that the Celtics were bad enough to secure the #6 pick in the draft, and Bradley's was arguably a #1 option (either he or Jeff Green), and his numbers were not significantly higher then they were this season.

The "better numbers on a worse team" argument is well and truly invalid here.

It's also debatable whether Butler was the #1 option in Chicago, or whether Pau was.  Butler had higher scoring numbers, but they had an essentially identical usage rate - Pau's was actually higher, but not by enough of a margin to be worthy of note.

[PaulP34]

I think all these Butler trade rumors are just a distraction. We may be going after someone totally different. This is how Danny Ainge usually works isn't it ?

[mr. dee]

I think all these Butler trade rumors are just a distraction. We may be going after someone totally different. This is how Danny Ainge usually works isn't it ?

I hope so. I don't want this team to be another Carmelo Knicks. People are underselling the value of deep bench here. You don't want to deplete the bench here, unless we sign Durant.

While whoever we draft at #3 may not be ready for major contributing minutes, they will still find a role for this team.

Shooting: Murray/Hield/Ingram
Wing defenders: Brown/Simmons
Stretch bigs: Bender/Chriss

Not to mention, Bradley's bargain contract gives Danny a flexibility to sign more quality role players, even if we sign Durant.

[CFAN38]

I do not think AB is the guy to include my final offer would be the following

smart+Amir+hunter+3+16+2018 Cs Unprotected 1st

I personally think it's important to keep IT and AB together, that relationship plus the butler and crowder relationship with create a foundation of unity on this team. the Cs would then still have 3 role player level picks at 23,31, and 35 of this draft going with one player for next season and two big men draft and stash would make sense. With Amir gone I would actually try to keep zeller and focus on horford or a short term over payed vet at center. Sully gone, turner gone. Then find a player like Dudley on a shirt deal to serve a backup wing.

[CFAN38]

I think all these Butler trade rumors are just a distraction. We may be going after someone totally different. This is how Danny Ainge usually works isn't it ?

I hope so. I don't want this team to be another Carmelo Knicks. People are underselling the value of deep bench here. You don't want to deplete the bench here, unless we sign Durant.

While whoever we draft at #3 may not be ready for major contributing minutes, they will still find a role for this team.

Shooting: Murray/Hield/Ingram
Wing defenders: Brown/Simmons
Stretch bigs: Bender/Chriss

I agree that we are hearing to much about butler for this to be DAs style. However I do not have any worries about bench depth as I'm confident Danny with all the 2nd round pick will be able to hit in a few low ceiling rotatin level player who can add depth. Guys like perry Ellis, Wayne seldom, George Niang, brogdon, Finney-smith, all have solid chances of making in and contributing right away. This is where DA is usually at his best.

[SHAQATTACK]

If the pick is NOT traded before draft .

We should take Dunn.

Not because we need him on the court .

Because he is an item that several teams covet ......Philly too.....

DA can flip him in another deal after the draft to get someone else .

Or Dunn makes some of our current guards more expendable for future deals.

Dunn is the best trade asset available .....after Ingram and Simmons .


Flip him to the Bucks for a player

[CoachBo]

Completely agree with Shaq.

Dunn is BPA, by far, and is an asset with many, many uses. The lack of workouts mean nothing.

Danny's best play is to draft him, and then sit down with the other teams in search of a guard and say, "Let's make a deal."