Jamal Murray. 79/100 threes

[walker834]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

What is average about an 18 year old freshman who scores 20 a game?

Murray is a good player but he's not Steph Curry is what I'm saying.  I don't know how possible trade scenarios are, but if it comes down to us taking a SG in general there are hopefully better trade options out there.  Butler and Okafor still seem somewhat far fetched though.  If we are taking bpa there are still better players on the board potentially.  Brown and Bender and Hield are that. Even Chriss I think depending on upside although he has a way to go himself.  So do most of these guys.

I just think finding an Isaiah/Smart clone if they mated isn't what we need.  He's a solid scorer, shooter and ball handler but eh.  Probably the most sure thing all around at least being a good player in the nba.  But we don't need it.

I hope Ainge takes a chance on Bender or Brown if we stay put.  I don't think we need Hield either.

[PickNRoll]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

That player is Furkan Korkmaz, and he's mocked in the mid-first. Korkmaz is a 6'7 athletic version of Murray.

Yep, far from 'the consensus top pick'. It just reflects the anti-european bias some people here have, which is pretty narrow minded considering how much the international game has changed in the past 10 years, and how many great international players have been succeeding in the NBA recently. Nobody is jumping all over Bender because he's european. People are excited about him despite the fact that he's european. It's the fact that he's 7'1, 18 years old, and has the quickness and skills of a small forward.

Can somebody put this kid through a shuttle drill or something so we can dispel this myth that he's quick. It's way out of hand.  Sure he has some SF skills, but he doesn't have any 7 footer skills!  So you have a small forward, who is incidentally tall, and necessarily slower and awkward.  With the strength of a pg. 

[action781]

How foolish of me to think I'd be reading a thread about Murray's three point shooting here...

[PickNRoll]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

What is average about an 18 year old freshman who scores 20 a game?

Murray is a good player but he's not Steph Curry is what I'm saying.  I don't know how possible trade scenarios are, but if it comes down to us taking a SG in general there are hopefully better trade options out there.  Butler and Okafor still seem somewhat far fetched though.  If we are taking bpa there are still better players on the board potentially.  Brown and Bender and Hield are that. Even Chriss I think depending on upside although he has a way to go himself.  So do most of these guys.

I just think finding an Isaiah/Smart clone if they mated isn't what we need.  He's a solid scorer, shooter and ball handler but eh.  Probably the most sure thing all around at least being a good player in the nba.  But we don't need it.

I hope Ainge takes a chance on Bender or Brown if we stay put.  I don't think we need Hield either.

Murray is definitely at the top of my "most likely to be Steph Curry" list.  The likelihood is very small, but still.

[walker834]

Just what we need a fairly above average sg with the #3 pick.   No thanks.  Murray is a good all around player but Bender, Brown, Hield would have had to do something wrong to pass on those guys I think.  We have Marcus and Bradley who are better imo.  We also don't need to follow the Lakers model for success.  Teams are trying to copy the Warriors here moreso and get guys like Steph Curry when not every player is that.

I don't think we should take a sg at all.  I think Brown can at least play other positions.  I would rather trade the pick if Bender isn't as advertised and we feel like Brown can't do some things.

What is average about an 18 year old freshman who scores 20 a game?

Murray is a good player but he's not Steph Curry is what I'm saying.  I don't know how possible trade scenarios are, but if it comes down to us taking a SG in general there are hopefully better trade options out there.  Butler and Okafor still seem somewhat far fetched though.  If we are taking bpa there are still better players on the board potentially.  Brown and Bender and Hield are that. Even Chriss I think depending on upside although he has a way to go himself.  So do most of these guys.

I just think finding an Isaiah/Smart clone if they mated isn't what we need.  He's a solid scorer, shooter and ball handler but eh.  Probably the most sure thing all around at least being a good player in the nba.  But we don't need it.

I hope Ainge takes a chance on Bender or Brown if we stay put.  I don't think we need Hield either.

Murray is definitely at the top of my "most likely to be Steph Curry" list.  The likelihood is very small, but still.

Ainge wanted Winslow pretty hardcore last year.  I'd be surprised to see him pass on Brown moreso than Murray.  I can see him liking Murray though.  That's just me guessing but Murray seems like an over glorified David Wesley to me. You want players that can spread the floor and all that. But Isaiah, Smart and Bradley is pretty good.  Bradley was hurt. Smart couldn't shoot a lick last year.  Hopefully he is going to improve.

[Evantime34]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

That player is Furkan Korkmaz, and he's mocked in the mid-first. Korkmaz is a 6'7 athletic version of Murray.

Yep, far from 'the consensus top pick'. It just reflects the anti-european bias some people here have, which is pretty narrow minded considering how much the international game has changed in the past 10 years, and how many great international players have been succeeding in the NBA recently. Nobody is jumping all over Bender because he's european. People are excited about him despite the fact that he's european. It's the fact that he's 7'1, 18 years old, and has the quickness and skills of a small forward.

Can somebody put this kid through a shuttle drill or something so we can dispel this myth that he's quick. It's way out of hand.  Sure he has some SF skills, but he doesn't have any 7 footer skills!  So you have a small forward, who is incidentally tall, and necessarily slower and awkward. With the strength of a pg.

What matters more, if he's quick in a shuttle or if he is quick enough to guard smaller players. There is already film of him defending smaller players.

In the modern NBA, 4's play on the perimeter, so attributing his perimeter skills as "small forward" skills doesn't make sense. The league is moving towards positionless ball so fitting him into a specific position archetype is useless.

Bender is billed as a 7 footer who has shown the ability to block shots, defend smaller players in space, hit 3's, drive close outs and pass the ball. If all these skills translate to the NBA then he's going to be a hell of a player. I trust Ainge to determine whether these skills translate to the NBA because he has more information than we do.

edit- My bad for talking about Bender in a Murray thread. There are a whole lot of things to discuss about Murray without bringing Bender's name into things.

[TheSundanceKid]

My concern as always is his defence. I saw that K O'Connor said he tried hard so at least the effort is there. Can he ever improve his foot speed to stay ahead of people. Let's take a best case for him, he turns into Kyrie Irving. Now thats a stretch but bear with me. Are you winning a championship with Kyrie? This year suggests not and thats at his absolute ceiling.

Everyone knows he can shoot. Thats why he's a top prospect in the first place

[kozlodoev]

Kevin O'Conner-

On a related note -- who is Kevin O'Connor and all those other names I can't recognize that started contributing to the front page?

You shouldn't be so dismissive. The guy writes for a bunch of publications and has a very good draft guide. He recently was on a very informative podcast with Sam Vecenie, who is one of the draft guys around.
https://vecenie.com/2016/06/07/game-theory-episode-35-kevin-oconnor-talks-celtics-draft/

He also provides scouting reports for CSNNE
http://www.csnne.com/2016-nba-draft-scouting-report-jamal-murray-kentucky


O'Conner -

Basketball analyst for @SBNation, @DraftExpress and @SportingNews. Boston Celtics writer for @celticsblog. Researcher for Sports Aptitude. Editor for @CSNNE.

I'm not dismissive, it was an honest question. The front page used to be Jeff, Roy, and occasionally a promoted fanpost from one of our more eloquent members -- not traditional media coverage.

[kozlodoev]

My concern as always is his defence. I saw that K O'Connor said he tried hard so at least the effort is there. Can he ever improve his foot speed to stay ahead of people. Let's take a best case for him, he turns into Kyrie Irving. Now thats a stretch but bear with me. Are you winning a championship with Kyrie? This year suggests not and thats at his absolute ceiling.

Everyone knows he can shoot. Thats why he's a top prospect in the first place

Generally speaking, I don't think it's better to pick someone who has a 10% chance of being Dirk over someone who has 50% chance of being Irving, but that's just me.

[walker834]

These percentages are silly.  Murray isn't going to be Curry or Kyrie.  Bender and Brown do have some upside where they can maybe get up somewhere near that level. You can keep your halfassed Kyrie.

[PickNRoll]

Shame he is a guard.

If he was European, enigmatic, and playing in an obscure overseas league he'd be the consensus top pick in the draft.

That player is Furkan Korkmaz, and he's mocked in the mid-first. Korkmaz is a 6'7 athletic version of Murray.

Yep, far from 'the consensus top pick'. It just reflects the anti-european bias some people here have, which is pretty narrow minded considering how much the international game has changed in the past 10 years, and how many great international players have been succeeding in the NBA recently. Nobody is jumping all over Bender because he's european. People are excited about him despite the fact that he's european. It's the fact that he's 7'1, 18 years old, and has the quickness and skills of a small forward.

Can somebody put this kid through a shuttle drill or something so we can dispel this myth that he's quick. It's way out of hand.  Sure he has some SF skills, but he doesn't have any 7 footer skills!  So you have a small forward, who is incidentally tall, and necessarily slower and awkward. With the strength of a pg.

What matters more, if he's quick in a shuttle or if he is quick enough to guard smaller players. There is already film of him defending smaller players.

In the modern NBA, 4's play on the perimeter, so attributing his perimeter skills as "small forward" skills doesn't make sense. The league is moving towards positionless ball so fitting him into a specific position archetype is useless.

Bender is billed as a 7 footer who has shown the ability to block shots, defend smaller players in space, hit 3's, drive close outs and pass the ball. If all these skills translate to the NBA then he's going to be a hell of a player. I trust Ainge to determine whether these skills translate to the NBA because he has more information than we do.

But there's also film of him being burned by players of all sizes.  It doesn't happen every time, just a lot.

I don't know how else to say it.  I watch the film and I see a guy that is NOT able to block shots.  Not even in Israel.  His shot blocking statistics are basically a dead match for Jared Sullinger.  There are roughly 5 Bender blocked shots that exist on film and we've all seen them.  I see a guy who struggles mightily guarding 4's and 5's.  As in, he's an F.  He is average on the perimeter, and can stay in front of some 3's, and is again helpless against guards.  As a 7 footer, his rebounding is an F.  Not a D.  Straight F.  His ability to drive closeouts is something like a D-.  Like I said, he's a SF with the quickness of a PF.  His FG% was 42% over 38 games, so he's definitely not finishing those closeout drives.  Not strong enough.

I guess what I'm saying is, who is making this stuff up?  None of it is true.  He didn't block shots at an appreciable rate.  He doesn't rebound.  He was an ineffective defender in most of the games I watched.  Where do these projections come from?

[TheSundanceKid]

My concern as always is his defence. I saw that K O'Connor said he tried hard so at least the effort is there. Can he ever improve his foot speed to stay ahead of people. Let's take a best case for him, he turns into Kyrie Irving. Now thats a stretch but bear with me. Are you winning a championship with Kyrie? This year suggests not and thats at his absolute ceiling.

Everyone knows he can shoot. Thats why he's a top prospect in the first place

Generally speaking, I don't think it's better to pick someone who has a 10% chance of being Dirk over someone who has 50% chance of being Irving, but that's just me.

just trying to see where I mentioned Bender in that post... I don't think he has a 10% chance of being Irving personally, I was just using a shoot for the stars comparison.

On your other question, K O'Conner started doing some smaller stuff a few years back, not sure if he was big before but I don't recall it. He was quite hot on draft stuff and started doing the mocks for SB Nation and now he does some other publications too. What I'm saying is I think he was a small time blogger when he started with CelticsBlog and he's grown since. It seems to have promoted the blog a bit which is good news

[walker834]

If we take Murray it means trading Smart or Bradley I think, which is not good considering I like them better than Murray. It's a guard oriented league and he could take Turners spot if we don't resign him but even still.  Smart is going to improve. Why are we drafting another player like that?

I like the idea of having Isaiah and Bradley and physical guards with other guys who can shoot. Smart, Rozier, Hunter are all due to improve this year.

I don't know why we are drafting someone to cut into their playiing time.  We could trade the pick.

[PickNRoll]

If we take Murray it means trading Smart or Bradley I think, which is not good considering I like them better than Murray. It's a guard oriented league and he could take Turners spot if we don't resign him but even still.  Smart is going to improve. Why are we drafting another player like that?

Haven't you heard?  The league is moving to positionless basketball.  You can play guards at center now.

[walker834]

I honestly don't think you can play them all. If we are trading the pick for someone special that's different.  I'd give up AB and the 3rd pick for Butler.  But Murray is 19 and undersized and very young.   Rozier, Rj are all going to improve too.

I'd rather physical players to go with our guards.  I still value defense and physicality when it comes to guard play.  Shooting can improve.

A lot of players in this draft can't really play defense.  They are all so young and get tossed around. People talk about Bender like that.  Murray is really no different.