Before jumping on the Bender hype train review....

[Quetzalcoatl]

You guys realize that every other player in the draft have scouting videos of just negatives too, right?  Most of the negative arguers are just posting that or just weaknesses from a scouting report. 

I am hoping we draft Murray, but I think Bender will be fine.  I just feel the need to defend him though because the attacks against him are only taking negatives into account with no regard to the reasons that every pro scout think he has the potential to be an All-Star.

I mean, here's a video of just negatives for D'Angelo Russell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5BtA2JdOBY

All it says is bad things in this one video, it must mean he'll never be a good NBA player because this video exists, right?  This is not productive.

[Tr1boy]

Instead of showing videos of only his weaknesses from 2 years ago then saying that they are all you need to know, I went and compiled his actual stats in the last couple months from Maccabi's website.  Then I went to their YouTube page and got the highlight videos.

I hadn't seen all of these.  Thanks for posting.

Same takeaways as before though.  His defensive instincts and rebounding instincts are BAD.  Often out of position, darting around and overcorrecting.  His speed is good in a straight line, but laterally not good.  Better than rookie Olynyk, if that's a compliment.  He can make shots and his form has improved - his lone NBA skill.  The game looks painfully unnatural to him.

he is quick for his size but does not have "fast twitch".  He has a chance to excel as a center in the NBA.  But he is about 30-35 pounds away .  At that pt his quickness might disappear

I'm telling you folks, this kid is a risky pick.  If he was either explosive or wiry strong,  I would be creating threads left and right, we need to pick him 3rd

[PickNRoll]

You guys realize that every other player in the draft have scouting videos of just negatives too, right?  Most of the negative arguers are just posting that or just weaknesses from a scouting report. 

I am hoping we draft Murray, but I think Bender will be fine.  I just feel the need to defend him though because the attacks against him are only taking negatives into account with no regard to the reasons that every pro scout think he has the potential to be an All-Star.

I mean, here's a video of just negatives for D'Angelo Russell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5BtA2JdOBY

All it says is bad things in this one video, it must mean he'll never be a good NBA player because this video exists, right?  This is not productive.

I watched the Strengths video too.  I've watched every random clip and every random game I can find on the internet -- maybe 40 in total spanning 3 years.  The Weaknesses video is clearly putrid, as any lowlight video would be.  But the highlight videos are... nondescript.  That's the nicest word I can find.  The game footage is painful to watch.

I will say that his personal interviews seem great.  Upstanding kid, good attitude, willing to work.  And he's only 18.  I would not describe him as "#3 pick in the NBA draft", but he seems polite and I would probably take a flier if he's there at 23.

[clevelandceltic]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

[PickNRoll]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

OK, so he's 2 hours from Israel.  I was referring to this:  http://screencast.com/t/nZLgmwuYZhZ

[Tr1boy]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

[clevelandceltic]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

[PickNRoll]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

[Tr1boy]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

I agree with you

Scouts can bet or project all they want . They been wrong more than half the time (think kwame brown, milicic, Nikoloz Tskitishvili ).

3 they got right (gasol, Dirk, gallo) but the dollar was dangling in front of their face prior to the draft

[clevelandceltic]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

[PickNRoll]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

Right.  So I called it exactly.  The scouting report you were fishing with didn't impact us at all.  We simply watched the tape and concur that Bender isn't an NBA caliber player.  The scouting report could've been for any 1 of 100 seven-footers I've seen over the years.  Lohaus thru Bargnani.  Like I said earlier, I don't always agree with scouts and frankly don't put a lot of stock internet mocks.  History has proven that NBA scouts aren't very good at this.

example, my big board is
1. ingram
2. simmons
3. murray
4. valentine
5. dunn
6. poeltl
...
20. bender

[clevelandceltic]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

Right.  So I called it exactly.  The scouting report you were fishing with didn't impact us at all.  We simply watched the tape and concur that Bender isn't an NBA caliber player.  The scouting report could've been for any 1 of 100 seven-footers I've seen over the years.  Lohaus thru Bargnani.  Like I said earlier, I don't always agree with scouts and frankly don't put a lot of stock internet mocks.  History has proven that NBA scouts aren't very good at this.

example, my big board is
1. ingram
2. simmons
3. murray
4. valentine
5. dunn
6. poeltl
...
20. bender

Its not a matter of fishing its a matter of pointing out that players grow and develop over time. Despite that report Prozingas turned out pretty well. Half the players you mentioned took quite a while to develop.

[Tr1boy]

What's important to keep in mind is just how young he is. He doesn't turn 19 until just before the draft making him one of the youngest prospects in the draft. Players his size usually take longer to mature physically and really blossom, so there is a lot to be optimistic about moving forward.

What is your analysis besides that?

No.  He doesn't turn 19 until November 17.  He will still be 18 when the NBA season starts.

I think the point was that he does NOT turn 19 before the draft.

The question is can this player play based upon the negatives in this scouting report?

Ahh, gotcha. 

You know, when people ask how my kids are doing I'm going to start saying "too early to tell.  She's only 12.  Sure, she gets pushed around right now and technically she doesn't have an NBA skill yet... but just you wait!"  LOL

Also, interesting side note.  Danny is overseas and advertising about Bender on Twitter.  This is excellent.  Danny can obviously see that the kid can't play a lick.  Hard sell, Danny.

Bender plays in Israel not Croatia.

Triboy would you take him based on these negatives?

All i can say is,  he has ways to go. Especially needing to add weight/strength

He has zero mid range game.  No post moves except using his length to his advantage which won't fly in the NBA.  Can shoot but nothing special. Can drive in using either hand but half the time can't make it all the way to the basket.  Bc his touch is average when he tosses up a floater all you want to do is cover your eyes and hope for the best.

I have nothing against taking projects but not at #3 or even 4-10.   

Why not lessen the risk and take Zhou Qi or Thon Maker at 16?  Take a player with less risk but that is good with the 3rd pick.   At least Murray is a deadly shooter.  Brown has world class athleticism (drive in, defend) etc.

So you wouldnt take him based on this scouting report?

Not sure what you're fishing for, but none of this is based strictly on a scouting report.  We're using our eyes, watching basketball.  The scouting report didn't alter my opinion.  Can't speak for triboy.

Im not fishing for anything, Im just looking for feedback. Here is the ironic thing. That scouting report was for Prozingas. Its amazing how similar of a description was to Bender. The 1st report was a report for Prozingas at 18 the 2nd at 19. Point being despite all the issues listed in that report, he went 4th and played well. That's not to say that Bender will be him but it means that players can grow and what they are today does not mean that's who they will be in 2 years.

Right.  So I called it exactly.  The scouting report you were fishing with didn't impact us at all.  We simply watched the tape and concur that Bender isn't an NBA caliber player.  The scouting report could've been for any 1 of 100 seven-footers I've seen over the years.  Lohaus thru Bargnani.  Like I said earlier, I don't always agree with scouts and frankly don't put a lot of stock internet mocks.  History has proven that NBA scouts aren't very good at this.

example, my big board is
1. ingram
2. simmons
3. murray
4. valentine
5. dunn
6. poeltl
...
20. bender

Its not a matter of fishing its a matter of pointing out that players grow and develop over time. Despite that report Prozingas turned out pretty well. Half the players you mentioned took quite a while to develop.

Porzingis is more explosive,  plays with "nasty".   Also has a quicker jump shot release

Yes in parallel he has to add weight/strength as well.   But the "additions" above = a better prospect/better equipped for the NBA

And when we look at high level euro prospects prior to the draft like Gasol , Dirk, Gallo. These three accomplished/was playing at a high level in their respected leagues.  Proved their worth at the international stage at 18-20.   

[Tr1boy]

i wonder why Bender is in such a hurry to bolt the NBA?  He clearly knows he is not ready physically.   Does he enjoy riding the bench?

Just because you might get drafted in a high position (in a weak draft 3-10), it is not the best reason to declare

Porzingis stayed an extra year to prepare, and it was a smart move

Maybe Bender is afraid if he stays back another year, and rides the bench again, his stock will plummet

Anyways , he is going to workout for the Celts soon. Lets see what Danny/CBS thinks

[clevelandceltic]

i wonder why Bender is in such a hurry to bolt the NBA?  He clearly knows he is not ready physically.   Does he enjoy riding the bench?

Just because you might get drafted in a high position (in a weak draft 3-10), it is not the best reason to declare

Porzingis stayed an extra year to prepare, and it was a smart move

Maybe Bender is afraid if he stays back another year, and rides the bench again, his stock will plummet

Anyways , he is going to workout for the Celts soon. Lets see what Danny/CBS thinks

We should just take Buddy so we can just be average for a couple more years with no hope of getting better.