Murray is Better than Ingram, he's the best Scorer in the draft.

[guava_wrench]

Ingram is the best player in the draft.
Durant 2.0.

I don't think you remember Kevin Durant in college.  He averaged 26 and 11 for his one year, not to mention 2 steals and 2 blocks.  Ingram is a nice player, but KD had one of the best freshman seasons in history.  It's an insult to Durant and a disservice to Ingram to make that comparison.

Agreed. It is funny how little a college player has to show to be compared to a hall of fame caliber player.

Ingram is like many other players who have the potential to be something special, but needs to improve to get there. Durant came out with the skill set already developed. Durant's only problem was that he was at the bottom of the draft in terms of workout numbers. He was physically weak. Historically weak. Oden had a higher vertical and was more agile than Durant. But Durant was dominant offensively because his skills were already developed.

[KG Living Legend]

 My pick at #3 hands down. Don't sleep on this kid fellas. He's got star written all over him.

[KG Living Legend]

https://youtu.be/q3X7Cp3oLz0


 Wow. He really took the loss hard after the tournament loss. Love to see that, kid was in tears.

[Celtics4ever]

Shooting drills are great but there is a big difference shooting with defenders on you.   I will take the more athletic 6'9" kid over the 6'4" kid in this case if their shooting is equal.   Watch the first finals games and see how Livingston killed the Cavs, Ingram has that kind of length.  Murray does not, he has PG length.  He can shoot but will he ever get an open shot, with his less than optimal length.

Ingram is like many other players who have the potential to be something special, but needs to improve to get there. Durant came out with the skill set already developed. Durant's only problem was that he was at the bottom of the draft in terms of workout numbers. He was physically weak. Historically weak. Oden had a higher vertical and was more agile than Durant. But Durant was dominant offensively because his skills were already developed.

Durant http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kevin-durant-1.html
Ingram  http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/brandon-ingram-1.html
Murray   http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jamal-murray-1.html

Ingram scored the least out of these but he shot the best 3P%.  Murray benefited by playing with another Ulis in college too.  Ingram looks like KD lite to me.  I wager he would have been more dominant offensively if he went to a school like KD.   Coach K, does not always right his stars and wants team ball.   I think Ingram clearly could have put up slightly better numbers if this were the case.   Murray and Ulis were the best UK had and had a ton of looks.  I do not think that Ingram is or will be as good as KD.

[PaulP34]

I love Murray and I think he will be a valuable asset in a good system but Brandon Ingram is going to be a special player. I agree on the KD comp. His length is gonna make him more valuable then Murray in the NBA and of course the Lakers get to acquire Ingram and that sucks.

[celticmania]

Ingram isn't as athletic as KD. He also doesn't have the killer crossover and the quickness.

[Beat LA]

Dakari Johnson aside, can we please stop drafting Kentucky players?  I mean, unless it's obvious like Towns or something.  I'd just prefer to stay away from Calipari's crap.  The guy reminds me of Mr. Wormwood from Matilda in how he drove cars backwards to erase the mileage on a vehicle, and thus made it appear that the customer was getting a great deal when the reality was that they were purchasing a lemon.

[KG Living Legend]

 Again stop with the Durant comparisons, it's a joke. Durant avg, 26 ppg and 11 rpg on a school known for killing prospects.

 Ingram avg 17.3 ppg and 6.8 rpg. That's not even close. I get it they are both really tall, long, and skinny. KD had an all time great freshman season. Ingram started out bad and turned in a good solid year.

 What people are missing with Murray is the fact that he has excellent handles, great footwork, and is a lights out shooter when you combine those three you have your hands full every night.

 Steph Curry light us not a bad comparison with Murray. If you want to call Ingram. KD minus 2.0 I can live with that.

[SHAQATTACK]

I hope Mitch thinks so too 

[crimson_stallion]

He is not the best scorer in the draft.  Hield wipes the floor with Murray as a scorer - it's not even remotely close.  Hield is on a whole other stratosphere.

Murray is younger sure, and he's a better scorer then Hield was at his age.  But he's not a better scorer then Hield is now.

 Again stop with the Durant comparisons, it's a joke. Durant avg, 26 ppg and 11 rpg on a school known for killing prospects.

 Ingram avg 17.3 ppg and 6.8 rpg. That's not even close. I get it they are both really tall, long, and skinny. KD had an all time great freshman season. Ingram started out bad and turned in a good solid year.

 What people are missing with Murray is the fact that he has excellent handles, great footwork, and is a lights out shooter when you combine those three you have your hands full every night.

 Steph Curry light us not a bad comparison with Murray. If you want to call Ingram. KD minus 2.0 I can live with that.

Except that Murray doesn't have excellent handles (not even close to it).  I don't think I have watched a single bit of game footage in which Murray demonstrated having anything more then average ball handling ability.  I don't think I've seen a single scouting report that hasn't mentioned his ball handling as an area that needs significant improvement.

If anything that's the biggest thing that concerns me about Murray probably - along with his obvious limitations on the defensive end.  Murray is quite seriously lacking in first-step quickness and lateral quickness, which I wouldn't be so worried about if he was a special ball handler, as there have been guys in the past who weren't especially athletic, who were able to use great ball handling skills to overcome their lack of explosiveness and to allow them to get to their spots on the court (e.g. Irving, Curry).   

But unfortunately Murray is not nearly at that level as a ball handler, and that worries me because I watch how (relatively) slow he is and how average his handle is, and I wonder how on earth he's going to get open shots or find open driving lanes at the NBA level playing the SG spot...and how he's going to handle full court pressure as a ball handler at the PG spot.

I already get turned off him a little because of the fact that he's likely to be a terrible defensive player at the NBA level, but maybe I could somewhat come to terms with that if he could make up for it by being a scoring machine (e.g. Harden).  Sadly I just don't think he has that in him. 

He's only 19 so I could be wrong - maybe he'll improve his ball handling and then become a great offensive player.  I just don't see that happening when I watch him play though.  I don't see the type of player who looks like he could school NBA defenses.

 

[KG Living Legend]

 You will be wrong about him. Best scoring prospect. It's completely unfair to compare him to Hield. Hield scored a whopping 7.8 ppg freshman year. And will be 23 years old at the start of the season.

 By the time Murray is 23 he will be avg 20 ppg in the NBA. Mark my words. Murray has been a PG his whole life. Watch the USA vs Canada game. He didn't get to play point at Kentucky.

[DarkAzcura]

He is not the best scorer in the draft.  Hield wipes the floor with Murray as a scorer - it's not even remotely close.  Hield is on a whole other stratosphere.

Murray is younger sure, and he's a better scorer then Hield was at his age.  But he's not a better scorer then Hield is now.

 Again stop with the Durant comparisons, it's a joke. Durant avg, 26 ppg and 11 rpg on a school known for killing prospects.

 Ingram avg 17.3 ppg and 6.8 rpg. That's not even close. I get it they are both really tall, long, and skinny. KD had an all time great freshman season. Ingram started out bad and turned in a good solid year.

 What people are missing with Murray is the fact that he has excellent handles, great footwork, and is a lights out shooter when you combine those three you have your hands full every night.

 Steph Curry light us not a bad comparison with Murray. If you want to call Ingram. KD minus 2.0 I can live with that.

Except that Murray doesn't have excellent handles (not even close to it).  I don't think I have watched a single bit of game footage in which Murray demonstrated having anything more then average ball handling ability.  I don't think I've seen a single scouting report that hasn't mentioned his ball handling as an area that needs significant improvement.

If anything that's the biggest thing that concerns me about Murray probably - along with his obvious limitations on the defensive end.  Murray is quite seriously lacking in first-step quickness and lateral quickness, which I wouldn't be so worried about if he was a special ball handler, as there have been guys in the past who weren't especially athletic, who were able to use great ball handling skills to overcome their lack of explosiveness and to allow them to get to their spots on the court (e.g. Irving, Curry).   

But unfortunately Murray is not nearly at that level as a ball handler, and that worries me because I watch how (relatively) slow he is and how average his handle is, and I wonder how on earth he's going to get open shots or find open driving lanes at the NBA level playing the SG spot...and how he's going to handle full court pressure as a ball handler at the PG spot.

I already get turned off him a little because of the fact that he's likely to be a terrible defensive player at the NBA level, but maybe I could somewhat come to terms with that if he could make up for it by being a scoring machine (e.g. Harden).  Sadly I just don't think he has that in him. 

He's only 19 so I could be wrong - maybe he'll improve his ball handling and then become a great offensive player.  I just don't see that happening when I watch him play though.  I don't see the type of player who looks like he could school NBA defenses.

 

I think you may be underrating Murray's handling ability a bit. One thing I usually put a lot of emphasis on is how in control someone is when judging their handle. Murray is young and does have some kinks to work out in his handle, but he shows a lot of poise and ability to stay in control under some pressure. He didn't end up working out as a PG at Kentucky, but I think he will find success at both guard positions in the NBA. Watching him in the Pan American games last year, you saw a kid with lots of poise, good vision, and ability to get to any spot he wanted to on the court. I've always had my doubts about Cal's coaching ability. I'd like to see how Murray develops under some legitimate coaching, which he will get in the NBA. I think his handle will surprise people in the NBA within the next couple years. It's definitely there.

I also think his athletic ability is a tad underrated. The kid has a 40" vertical and has thrown down some huge dunks in-game at Kentucky. He plays in control and plays to his own pace much like a great former player of our's (Pierce), but I think that makes some think less of his athletic ability than they should. Pierce was also a really underrated athlete. In terms of control and ability to stay within his own pace, I feel Murray's athletic ability is a bit overlooked. He/the game does seem to slow down a bit when Murray gets the ball, but it's in a good way. I just love Murray's feel for the game. That's something that translates and usually overcomes some issues he may have with his first step.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

He is not the best scorer in the draft.  Hield wipes the floor with Murray as a scorer - it's not even remotely close.  Hield is on a whole other stratosphere.

Murray is younger sure, and he's a better scorer then Hield was at his age.  But he's not a better scorer then Hield is now.

 Again stop with the Durant comparisons, it's a joke. Durant avg, 26 ppg and 11 rpg on a school known for killing prospects.

 Ingram avg 17.3 ppg and 6.8 rpg. That's not even close. I get it they are both really tall, long, and skinny. KD had an all time great freshman season. Ingram started out bad and turned in a good solid year.

 What people are missing with Murray is the fact that he has excellent handles, great footwork, and is a lights out shooter when you combine those three you have your hands full every night.

 Steph Curry light us not a bad comparison with Murray. If you want to call Ingram. KD minus 2.0 I can live with that.

Except that Murray doesn't have excellent handles (not even close to it).  I don't think I have watched a single bit of game footage in which Murray demonstrated having anything more then average ball handling ability.  I don't think I've seen a single scouting report that hasn't mentioned his ball handling as an area that needs significant improvement.

If anything that's the biggest thing that concerns me about Murray probably - along with his obvious limitations on the defensive end.  Murray is quite seriously lacking in first-step quickness and lateral quickness, which I wouldn't be so worried about if he was a special ball handler, as there have been guys in the past who weren't especially athletic, who were able to use great ball handling skills to overcome their lack of explosiveness and to allow them to get to their spots on the court (e.g. Irving, Curry).   

But unfortunately Murray is not nearly at that level as a ball handler, and that worries me because I watch how (relatively) slow he is and how average his handle is, and I wonder how on earth he's going to get open shots or find open driving lanes at the NBA level playing the SG spot...and how he's going to handle full court pressure as a ball handler at the PG spot.

I already get turned off him a little because of the fact that he's likely to be a terrible defensive player at the NBA level, but maybe I could somewhat come to terms with that if he could make up for it by being a scoring machine (e.g. Harden).  Sadly I just don't think he has that in him. 

He's only 19 so I could be wrong - maybe he'll improve his ball handling and then become a great offensive player.  I just don't see that happening when I watch him play though.  I don't see the type of player who looks like he could school NBA defenses.

 

I think you may be underrating Murray's handling ability a bit. One thing I usually put a lot of emphasis on is how in control someone is when judging their handle. Murray is young and does have some kinks to work out in his handle, but he shows a lot of poise and ability to stay in control under some pressure. He didn't end up working out as a PG at Kentucky, but I think he will find success at both guard positions in the NBA. Watching him in the Pan American games last year, you saw a kid with lots of poise, good vision, and ability to get to any spot he wanted to on the court. I've always had my doubts about Cal's coaching ability. I'd like to see how Murray develops under some legitimate coaching, which he will get in the NBA. I think his handle will surprise people in the NBA within the next couple years. It's definitely there.

I also think his athletic ability is a tad underrated. The kid has a 40" vertical and has thrown down some huge dunks in-game at Kentucky. He plays in control and plays to his own pace much like a great former player of our's (Pierce), but I think that makes some think less of his athletic ability than they should. Pierce was also a really underrated athlete. In terms of control and ability to stay within his own pace, I feel Murray's athletic ability is a bit overlooked. He/the game does seem to slow down a bit when Murray gets the ball, but it's in a good way. I just love Murray's feel for the game. That's something that translates and usually overcomes some issues he may have with his first step.

Don't bring that logic into this discussion!!!

[wiley]

He is not the best scorer in the draft.  Hield wipes the floor with Murray as a scorer - it's not even remotely close.  Hield is on a whole other stratosphere.

Murray is younger sure, and he's a better scorer then Hield was at his age.  But he's not a better scorer then Hield is now.

 Again stop with the Durant comparisons, it's a joke. Durant avg, 26 ppg and 11 rpg on a school known for killing prospects.

 Ingram avg 17.3 ppg and 6.8 rpg. That's not even close. I get it they are both really tall, long, and skinny. KD had an all time great freshman season. Ingram started out bad and turned in a good solid year.

 What people are missing with Murray is the fact that he has excellent handles, great footwork, and is a lights out shooter when you combine those three you have your hands full every night.

 Steph Curry light us not a bad comparison with Murray. If you want to call Ingram. KD minus 2.0 I can live with that.

Except that Murray doesn't have excellent handles (not even close to it).  I don't think I have watched a single bit of game footage in which Murray demonstrated having anything more then average ball handling ability.  I don't think I've seen a single scouting report that hasn't mentioned his ball handling as an area that needs significant improvement.

If anything that's the biggest thing that concerns me about Murray probably - along with his obvious limitations on the defensive end.  Murray is quite seriously lacking in first-step quickness and lateral quickness, which I wouldn't be so worried about if he was a special ball handler, as there have been guys in the past who weren't especially athletic, who were able to use great ball handling skills to overcome their lack of explosiveness and to allow them to get to their spots on the court (e.g. Irving, Curry).   

But unfortunately Murray is not nearly at that level as a ball handler, and that worries me because I watch how (relatively) slow he is and how average his handle is, and I wonder how on earth he's going to get open shots or find open driving lanes at the NBA level playing the SG spot...and how he's going to handle full court pressure as a ball handler at the PG spot.

I already get turned off him a little because of the fact that he's likely to be a terrible defensive player at the NBA level, but maybe I could somewhat come to terms with that if he could make up for it by being a scoring machine (e.g. Harden).  Sadly I just don't think he has that in him. 

He's only 19 so I could be wrong - maybe he'll improve his ball handling and then become a great offensive player.  I just don't see that happening when I watch him play though.  I don't see the type of player who looks like he could school NBA defenses.

 

I think you may be underrating Murray's handling ability a bit. One thing I usually put a lot of emphasis on is how in control someone is when judging their handle. Murray is young and does have some kinks to work out in his handle, but he shows a lot of poise and ability to stay in control under some pressure. He didn't end up working out as a PG at Kentucky, but I think he will find success at both guard positions in the NBA. Watching him in the Pan American games last year, you saw a kid with lots of poise, good vision, and ability to get to any spot he wanted to on the court. I've always had my doubts about Cal's coaching ability. I'd like to see how Murray develops under some legitimate coaching, which he will get in the NBA. I think his handle will surprise people in the NBA within the next couple years. It's definitely there.

I also think his athletic ability is a tad underrated. The kid has a 40" vertical and has thrown down some huge dunks in-game at Kentucky. He plays in control and plays to his own pace much like a great former player of our's (Pierce), but I think that makes some think less of his athletic ability than they should. Pierce was also a really underrated athlete. In terms of control and ability to stay within his own pace, I feel Murray's athletic ability is a bit overlooked. He/the game does seem to slow down a bit when Murray gets the ball, but it's in a good way. I just love Murray's feel for the game. That's something that translates and usually overcomes some issues he may have with his first step.

Don't bring that logic into this discussion!!!

Murray will be great in the NBA.  Can't say if better than Ingram, but it's not the wildest thing I ever heard.  If I were the Lakers I'd go with the size for sure.  Certainly for the Celtics Ingram should be the target.  Murray is bound to make one or two teams regret if he doesn't get taken in the top 4 or 5.

[SHAQATTACK]

Give me Paul George