Bender vs Sabonis

[Tr1boy]

Triboy what will you do if Sabonis materializes into nothing in the NBA and ends up being a bust?

He won't.  Worst case he is going to be a better Sullinger. 

And if he is a bust (after 2-3 seasons at the NBA level) I will be the 1st one to admit it.    You can add Aaron Gordon and Jordan Mickey on this list

That's a [dang] good worst case. I honestly don't see it happening.

You think Sabonis who looks like is just strong as Sullinger  (give or take) , is 2-3 inches taller , quicker and more athletic,  just as good rebounding instincts ,  IQ   is going to be worst than Sullinger ?? 

likely not

Where do you gather your information? I'm curious.


Sullinger 2012 Combine
6-9 w/shoes
7-1.25 wingspan

Sabonis 2015 Nike Academy
6-10 w/shoes
6-10.5 wingpan

I'm seeing more 6-11 w/shoes stats for Sabonis.  Sabonis is quicker off the ground 1st/2nd jumps

you want to dispute this also?

there is no way Sabonis is 6'11

these reputable sites prove otherwise.  All list 6'11

http://www.gozags.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/domantas_sabonis_952372.html

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/players/playerpage/2152455/domantas-sabonis

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3155942/domantas-sabonis

Triboy, why do you refuse to listen to anything? It would make things so much more enjoyable if you could admit that you didn't know certain things. Drawing a line in the sand does little for the sake of friendly debate . Again, the sites there mean nothing. Draft express has his actual measurement. It's not a guess. It's not an estimate. It's his exact height. 6-10 with shoes, so that'll be approximately sub 6-9 without. If you want to think he's 6-11 or 7-3 like his dad be my guest, but you're only making yourself look stubborn amongst other things.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Domantas-Sabonis-62889/

Are you serious?? These are legit sites. 
Draftexpress has a measurement of him from last year (early summer).  how definite are you that he stopped growing all together??  Are you 100 percent sure?

[rondohondo]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

why don't you also prop up a clip of Ingram In high school (earlier days) getting beat up by 2nd round talents??     This is nothing to do with what is happening today

so Dragan dominated Sabonis when he was 16 and Saboins was 18 . Sabonis improved , but no chance Dragan has, ok gotch ya ......

[Tr1boy]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

why don't you also prop up a clip of Ingram In high school (earlier days) getting beat up by 2nd round talents??     This is nothing to do with what is happening today

so Dragan dominated Sabonis when he was 16 and Saboins was 18 . Sabonis improved , but no chance Dragan has, ok gotch ya ......

.

I never said that. But we don't know do we ?? instead of fantasizing, it would be nice if we could go by some concrete

[Eddie20]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

[Tr1boy]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level. 

[TwinTower14]

MVP of the basketball without borders last year, but that probably doesn't count either.

[Eddie20]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level.

Just to help you because you might not know how to find the info

http://www.fiba.com/rankingmen

3rd best team in the world, behind only US and Spain. As for players, I know Jonas and Donatas M (Houston) are on the team. I think Kleiza is still there too. Very good team.


So would you admit you were wrong, that you didn't know, and Lithunia is actually good?

[rondohondo]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level.

Just to help you because you might not know how to find the info

http://www.fiba.com/rankingmen

3rd best team in the world, behind only US and Spain. As for players, I know Jonas and Donatas M (Houston) are on the team. I think Kleiza is still there too. Very good team.


So would you admit you were wrong, that you didn't know, and Lithunia is actually good?

how about Sabonis Sr ? lol , isn't Ironic , don't ya think ?

[Tr1boy]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level.

Just to help you because you might not know how to find the info

http://www.fiba.com/rankingmen

3rd best team in the world, behind only US and Spain. As for players, I know Jonas and Donatas M (Houston) are on the team. I think Kleiza is still there too. Very good team.


So would you admit you were wrong, that you didn't know, and Lithunia is actually good?

ok 3rd best.  Like USA, Spain then wide gap Lithuania , Croatia etc

thanks for listing 2 players in the whole NBA league.    Kleiza is not playing in the NBA no more, unless you are not aware of this

[Eddie20]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level.

Just to help you because you might not know how to find the info

http://www.fiba.com/rankingmen

3rd best team in the world, behind only US and Spain. As for players, I know Jonas and Donatas M (Houston) are on the team. I think Kleiza is still there too. Very good team.


So would you admit you were wrong, that you didn't know, and Lithunia is actually good?

ok 3rd best.  Like USA, Spain then wide gap Lithuania , Croatia etc

thanks for listing 2 players in the whole NBA league.    Kleiza is not playing in the NBA no more, unless you are not aware of this

Do you think that's what makes a team good? You haven't been watching basketball long, but years ago teams like Italy and Greece, which had 0 NBA players beat team USA. Lithuania is better than France who has Parker, Batum, Gobert, Diaw, Fournier, etc.

I wish you would just acknowledge that you spoke without really knowing what you're talking about. It's so painfully obvious.

[Tr1boy]

Many of those highlights on youtube was against inferior level of talent (not very strong nor explosive).

Careful now, you're also including Sabonis in that statement. Since he after all dominated him to the tune of 36 pts and 14 rebounds.

you are foolish my friend.  it was 2 years ago. Do you not get the fact players (crucial stage of development)  change/develop?

Bender looks like he is in Idle mode at the moment bc  all he is doing is warming up the bench.  We have little to go by

sabonis on the other hand did all he could at the college level

I ask you again to look back at what happened with Poeltl vs Sabonis last off season (Lithuania team is not very good btw) . Poeltl had the better game.  And what happened in the round of 32 .  It is the recent or now that counts not 2 , 3 years ago

Triboy, you really have no idea what you're saying. I won't even bother correcting you, man. If you don't know things just google it. That's some friendly advice for you.

take your own advice first

btw list me players from Lithuania that are currently playing at the NBA level.

Just to help you because you might not know how to find the info

http://www.fiba.com/rankingmen

3rd best team in the world, behind only US and Spain. As for players, I know Jonas and Donatas M (Houston) are on the team. I think Kleiza is still there too. Very good team.


So would you admit you were wrong, that you didn't know, and Lithunia is actually good?

ok 3rd best.  Like USA, Spain then wide gap Lithuania , Croatia etc

thanks for listing 2 players in the whole NBA league.    Kleiza is not playing in the NBA no more, unless you are not aware of this

Do you think that's what makes a team good? You haven't been watching basketball long, but years ago teams like Italy and Greece, which had 0 NBA players beat team USA. Lithuania is better than France who has Parker, Batum, Gobert, Diaw, Fournier, etc.

I wish you would just acknowledge that you spoke without really knowing what you're talking about. It's so painfully obvious.

Going off topic does not divert the fact that posting a matchup that happened 2 years ago(between 16-17 year olds) is well.... kind of silly

[Sixth Man]

Hard to find much predictive value in any one-game sample, whether it's Bender vs. Sabonis two years ago or Sabonis vs. Poeltl in the tourney.  Player could be carrying a small injury or have come down with the flu or broken up with his girlfriend the night before...

[footey]

It's really too bad that Bender wasn't able to play for Croatia last summer at Eurobasket.  Prior to that tourney, every International competition, basketball camp, etc. where he played against older peers he excelled and appeared to have a massive upward trajectory.  But unfortunately, because of Adidas vs. Nike politics and limited playing time on his new pro team we have very limited film on him from the last year.

We call this a rationalization where I work .

Rationalisation happens in two steps:

A decision, action, judgement is made for a given reason, or no (known) reason at all.
A rationalisation is performed, constructing a seemingly good or logical reason, as an attempt to justify the act after the fact (for oneself or others).

His stats are not due to politics, keep telling yourself that.   When has Nike ever tried to suppress a player?   Never.   They want them to play so they can sell shoes.   

For me Sabonis seems to top out at fringe NBA starter.  Bender, on the other hand, because of his unique physical profile (size combined with agile movement) seems like he could be something special if the cards are played right.  For that reason, I'd be willing to risk him being a total bust and draft him at #3.

I also don't quite know why these two are being compared to each other since they fall at significantly different parts of the draft.  The Celtics could easily select both if they wanted.

I kind of hope we work out these two the same day.   It would settle much of the debate.   Guys who jump 27" are special in that they are trying to play an athletes sport when they are not.   Lateral movement is great, but he is so weak and can't jump that he will not be able to do much with it.   Porzingas is a way better athlete.  He also did not hide and why is Bender hiding from the  combine tests?

BECAUSE IT WOULD HURT HIS STOCK.

Vertical at that height and reach is probably the least important measurement. 

[footey]

I would be happy to get both of them.  But obviously Bender at 3, Sabonis at 16 or trade up.  Sabonis is very smart as a player; you will get help from him immediately. He can take over for the loss of Sully and then some.

[TwinTower14]

The gentleman from Draft Express had this to say about Dragan last fall.  He has seen him play a lot....

How do you find a 7'1" kid that's 17 years old, that is skilled with such a feel for the game like Dragan's? It doesn't exist," Givony told Bleacher Report. "Compare where Dragan is now to where [New York Knicks No. 4 pick] Kristaps Porzingis was at the same age, and there's no comparison. Bender is way ahead in terms of how polished he is, creativity, versatility and his body. I was watching some of his games from preseason in France and Israel, and he is huge.

"His body made a huge jump this summer. Every time I watch him, he is better, stronger; his jumper is better, his ball-handling, he runs coast-to-coast, dishes off. … NBA teams will fall in love with him."


So that kind of puts to rest that he hasn't improved in the last two years.  I have really dug into Dragan today and I honestly feel like there is a decent chance he isn't available at 3 for the C's to pick...