Author Topic: Danny Was Right  (Read 13008 times)

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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2016, 10:14:53 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.
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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2016, 10:16:48 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2016, 10:18:02 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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So two games and all of a sudden the Celtics aren't that good? Sigh.

Two must-win games, against teams we could potentially face in the playoffs, who we should be able to beat, when our team was (for the most part) completely healthy and at full strength.

I can accept the Hawks loss - losing by one point to a good playoff team is perfectly acceptable.

I can't accept the Charlotte loss.  Our defensive effort was a joke, we were horribly careless with the ball, and our offensive effort wasn't much better than our defensive effort.  We controlled most of the first half, then managed to fall behind by more than 30 points in the 3rd quarter.  That's embarrassing.   

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2016, 10:18:10 PM »

Offline oldtype

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.

At this point he's more than proved that he's capable of running the team a starting point guard. I also wanted him to be the sixth man this year, but he's a substantially better player now than either of us thought he was.  If you have a guy who can run circles against starters, why waste him on running circles around bench players.


Great words from a great man

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2016, 10:22:15 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.

You are completely wrong.

The reason why he is such a dangerous scorer is because he is so DIFFICULT to gameplan against.  He's a guy who can score in just about ever imaginable way.  He can hit the three, he has a deadly midrange game, can shoot off spot-ups or off the dribble, can get into the paint and finish at the basket, gets to the line at an elite rate, makes his free throws at an elite percentage, etc.

Isaiah Thomas is probably one of the top 5 scorers in the entire NBA for all of the above reasons. I'm not talking in terms of pure scoring numbers, but in terms of scoring talent/skill/ability. 

The guy has been on an absolute tear since the All-Star break and has been nothing short of elite.   The game today was a terrible effort, but you can't blame Thomas for that - one or two bad games in 20 is hardly something to get frustrated about.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2016, 10:28:50 PM »

Offline Smart457

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.
The Celtics need better shooters so the defense doesn't cave in on IT ever time he takes it to the rim.


Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2016, 10:29:20 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.

You are completely wrong.

The reason why he is such a dangerous scorer is because he is so DIFFICULT to gameplan against.  He's a guy who can score in just about ever imaginable way.  He can hit the three, he has a deadly midrange game, can shoot off spot-ups or off the dribble, can get into the paint and finish at the basket, gets to the line at an elite rate, makes his free throws at an elite percentage, etc.

Isaiah Thomas is probably one of the top 5 scorers in the entire NBA for all of the above reasons. I'm not talking in terms of pure scoring numbers, but in terms of scoring talent/skill/ability. 

The guy has been on an absolute tear since the All-Star break and has been nothing short of elite.   The game today was a terrible effort, but you can't blame Thomas for that - one or two bad games in 20 is hardly something to get frustrated about.

Putting a lanky, athletic defender on him isn't exactly rocket science. Pretty much every time that has happened IT has been limited - Shumpert, Livingston, MCW, etc. He's struggled against every single one of those guys. Further, it's amazing that more teams don't do it and then take advantage of him offensively more often.
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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2016, 10:30:02 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.
The Celtics need better shooters so the defense doesn't cave in on IT ever time he takes it to the rim.

True, which is one of the reasons that I wouldn't mind Ingram over Simmons if we do get a top-two pick and use it.
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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2016, 10:31:18 PM »

Offline Denis998

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.
that's not his ideal position, All Starts aren't bench players.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2016, 10:32:45 PM »

Offline Smart457

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.

You are completely wrong.

The reason why he is such a dangerous scorer is because he is so DIFFICULT to gameplan against.  He's a guy who can score in just about ever imaginable way.  He can hit the three, he has a deadly midrange game, can shoot off spot-ups or off the dribble, can get into the paint and finish at the basket, gets to the line at an elite rate, makes his free throws at an elite percentage, etc.

Isaiah Thomas is probably one of the top 5 scorers in the entire NBA for all of the above reasons. I'm not talking in terms of pure scoring numbers, but in terms of scoring talent/skill/ability. 

The guy has been on an absolute tear since the All-Star break and has been nothing short of elite.   The game today was a terrible effort, but you can't blame Thomas for that - one or two bad games in 20 is hardly something to get frustrated about.
Thank you. IT is the only reason we are a playoff team. If Smart started and IT was not on the team we would be a lottery team.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2016, 10:32:56 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Some people are just wed to their preconceptions about IT.  Just because he started coming off the bench, doesn't mean he isn't a quality starter in the NBA.  IT led this Celtics team in scoring 17 games in a row.  It wasn't a fluke.  He was just that good.

Smart has the unfortunate task of trying to beat out IT but right now he has neither the scoring ability, nor the floor leadership to do so.  Smart was a pretty good pick in the draft that he came out of and an absolute terror on the defensive end, but fact is he can't beat out IT.

IT reminds me of a shorter Iverson.  Dynamic offensively and makes the other players better.

IT's win shares 9.7, Teams Points per 100 Possessions with IT 110, without IT 105.

http://www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2016/01/boston_celtics_washington_wiza_9.html

People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.

At this point he's more than proved that he's capable of running the team a starting point guard. I also wanted him to be the sixth man this year, but he's a substantially better player now than either of us thought he was.  If you have a guy who can run circles against starters, why waste him on running circles around bench players.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2016, 10:34:09 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.

At this point he's more than proved that he's capable of running the team a starting point guard. I also wanted him to be the sixth man this year, but he's a substantially better player now than either of us thought he was.  If you have a guy who can run circles against starters, why waste him on running circles around bench players.

He can score with the best of them, sure, because he's a VOLUME SCORER. We desperately need that on our team, which is why he's a starter on our team.  But he has highly questionable decision-making for a starting point guard, as evidenced by his several bad forced possessions a game and his increasingly alarming number of turnovers - 10 in the last two games and 16 in the last four games. Those are classic traits of a volume scoring sixth man.
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Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2016, 10:34:23 PM »

Offline Smart457

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People wanted one all-star. Now that we have him the same people are tripping over themselves to explain why he doesn't count.

To be fair, I wasn't too keen of getting IT in the first place, because he's always been a volume scorer, sixth man type to me. But I was glad that we got him once he played that role. However, I certainly didn't want him as a starter, because he's too one-sided of a player and he doesn't have very sound decision-making for a point guard. And that's because he's a volume scorer whose ideal position is a scoring player off of the bench. You're kidding yourself if you think that's not his ideal position given his limitations. He's Jamal Crawford 2.0 - volume scoring sixth man who runs the second unit.
The Celtics need better shooters so the defense doesn't cave in on IT ever time he takes it to the rim.

True, which is one of the reasons that I wouldn't mind Ingram over Simmons if we do get a top-two pick and use it.
Ingram and Smart would be great to build around in 2-3 years while IT and Crowder keep us relevant for now.

That would be a nice situation.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 10:35:00 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.

You are completely wrong.

The reason why he is such a dangerous scorer is because he is so DIFFICULT to gameplan against.  He's a guy who can score in just about ever imaginable way.  He can hit the three, he has a deadly midrange game, can shoot off spot-ups or off the dribble, can get into the paint and finish at the basket, gets to the line at an elite rate, makes his free throws at an elite percentage, etc.

Isaiah Thomas is probably one of the top 5 scorers in the entire NBA for all of the above reasons. I'm not talking in terms of pure scoring numbers, but in terms of scoring talent/skill/ability. 

The guy has been on an absolute tear since the All-Star break and has been nothing short of elite.   The game today was a terrible effort, but you can't blame Thomas for that - one or two bad games in 20 is hardly something to get frustrated about.

Putting a lanky, athletic defender on him isn't exactly rocket science. Pretty much every time that has happened IT has been limited - Shumpert, Livingston, MCW, etc. He's struggled against every single one of those guys. Further, it's amazing that more teams don't do it and then take advantage of him offensively more often.
Im also quite surprised more teams dont do that. Especially when AB can be gaurded by most pgs due to his size.

I understand the frustration with IT, as these last few games hes been quite bad and its crunch time. The concern with IT was always going to be that when it comes to crunch time, hes going to be exposed as a gimmick.

That being said, I think I disagree with this sentiment.

you say hes not an ideal starting 1 and hes not. id rather have Chris Paul, Steph, Russell Westbrook, Kyle Lowry, John Wall and Lillard.

I think IT is next. Ahead of Kemba, Teague and Jackson. I dont think that list is absurd either.

Its quite reasonable to call IT the 7th best pg in the league. That seems like starting caliber to me.

Re: Danny Was Right
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 10:46:40 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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This was always a concern with our team, because IT can be taken out of his game so easily.

Yeah which is why he was their leading scorer 17 games in a row.

And has been a primary reason why we have lost the last 6 quarters...

Easy to do things in the season. How was IT again in the playoffs last year when he was taken out of his game?



Please, an exaggeration he was their leading scorer in the playoffs and their ONLY scorer. You're ragging on him for be the leading scorer on the eighth who got swept by the best team in the east. Where was his help? Where was Bradley? Crowder? Turner? When the Cavs were honing their defense on him, how come others didn't step up. If they did, it would take some burden off him.

Yeah, real impressive when you're the leading scorer shooting 33 fg% and 17 3PFG%.  ::)

It just shows what his role truly is: a sixth man volume scorer.

Sixth man?! The man is averaging 22 and 6 is this season are those sixth man numbers?

Yes, he is ideally a sixth man. His size and defense are too big of a disadvantage and his game is too easy to game plan for to be a legitimate starting point guard on a contending team.
I disagree.

Hes more than a sixth man and can certainly be a starter. When he is taken out of his game, we cant afford to see everyone else be garbage too.

Where was Jae? AB didnt generate any offense, Turner was garbage, Kelly was garbage, neither Sully nor Amir did jack.

IT is not really the problem.

Hes not Chris Paul or Steph obviously, but to say hes not starting caliber is too much.

Sure, he's starting caliber on THIS TEAM (at least this year - Smart should take back his starting position next year). But can you really say that he's an ideal starting caliber point guard? No, his game is totally tailored to be a sixth man, which is why it's his ideal position.

You are completely wrong.

The reason why he is such a dangerous scorer is because he is so DIFFICULT to gameplan against.  He's a guy who can score in just about ever imaginable way.  He can hit the three, he has a deadly midrange game, can shoot off spot-ups or off the dribble, can get into the paint and finish at the basket, gets to the line at an elite rate, makes his free throws at an elite percentage, etc.

Isaiah Thomas is probably one of the top 5 scorers in the entire NBA for all of the above reasons. I'm not talking in terms of pure scoring numbers, but in terms of scoring talent/skill/ability. 

The guy has been on an absolute tear since the All-Star break and has been nothing short of elite.   The game today was a terrible effort, but you can't blame Thomas for that - one or two bad games in 20 is hardly something to get frustrated about.

Putting a lanky, athletic defender on him isn't exactly rocket science. Pretty much every time that has happened IT has been limited - Shumpert, Livingston, MCW, etc. He's struggled against every single one of those guys. Further, it's amazing that more teams don't do it and then take advantage of him offensively more often.
Im also quite surprised more teams dont do that. Especially when AB can be gaurded by most pgs due to his size.

I understand the frustration with IT, as these last few games hes been quite bad and its crunch time. The concern with IT was always going to be that when it comes to crunch time, hes going to be exposed as a gimmick.

That being said, I think I disagree with this sentiment.

you say hes not an ideal starting 1 and hes not. id rather have Chris Paul, Steph, Russell Westbrook, Kyle Lowry, John Wall and Lillard.

I think IT is next. Ahead of Kemba, Teague and Jackson. I dont think that list is absurd either.

Its quite reasonable to call IT the 7th best pg in the league. That seems like starting caliber to me.

Maybe offensively, but there's more to the game than offense. He's a major, major liability defensively that the others aren't, and he's even playing with most likely two of the three of the top ten or so perimeter defenders in the league.

Let's just wait until the playoffs to see how he does. I really, really, really hope he doesn't choke again this year and can lead us into the second round, and in all honesty it will probably depend upon who we play. Kemba looked to really frustrate him defensively, and I'm beyond floored that they didn't put Lee on him to limit him, though they might move to that in the playoffs. Miami, on the other hand, doesn't really have anyone to limit IT in the starting lineup, unless they plan on starting Winslow.
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