Remember how we all wanted Winslow so much last year?

[crimson_stallion]

I do not agree that Crowder is at his peak.

If you look at the level he was at this time last year, and then look at where he is at now - the jump he has taken in such a short amount of time has been astronomical. 

He surely has got to be in the discussion for most improved player of the year award.  He probably wouldn't get it (I imagine Draymond Green has a lock on that) but surely he must be at the very top of the list of runners up.

When a guy who is 25 years old has made that type of jump he has in the space of a year, then I think it's very premature to declare him as "maxed out".  He still seems to be improving as the season is going on. 

I would take Crowder over Winslow myself, and it would be a no brainer for me.  I think Winslow's upside pretty much is what Crowder is now, maybe (and that's a maybe) a tad higher. Crowder's most underrated 'talent' is his attitude / toughness.  People tend to value physical attributes over mental ones in this league, but if you look at guys like Crowder, Smart and Draymond Green...they wouldn't be half the players they are without that attitude.

You could argue Smart's attitude hurts him.

I think of Smart as the NBA equivalent of a powerful but inexperienced sith apprentice. 

He is very strong in the force (the force being represented by his will, motor and work ethic) but most of that force power comes from his passion and his emotion.

His raw force energy on it's own is enough to allow him to be quite powerful and effective, however for him to become a truly great sith he needs to learn how to make the most of that raw force energy by:

- Learning new techniques
- Refining existing techniques
- Working out how to control his raw passion / emotion, rather than allowing it to control him

These lessons can only be learnt with time and experience.

If he can learn those things, then he could become an extremely powerful Sith Lord (like Count Dooku).  However if he can't learn those things then there is some risk that his passion may become his downfall, and he may end up getting cut in half by his opponent (like Darth Maul).

Either way, a Sith depends on their passion/emotion for their power.  Take itway, and they are powerless.

I hope you enjoyed my little analogy

The force needs to recalibrate on those shot attempts.

haha well you know what they say, emotion and passion are powerful but the can lead to the dark side.

[slamtheking]

actually, not everyone wanted Winslow.  I wanted Johnson or Turner tbh.   didn't have the opportunity to pick any of them so it's water under the bridge.

Crowder's developed nicely this year but would still like to see us get a SF that has a better all-around offensive game.

I mean he's not Durant offensively, but you can't deny the significant improvements Crowder has made on the offensive end. Highest scoring per 36 of his career (16.3) and highest percentages by far of his career (45/35/82). He's not an elite offensive player by any means, but he's been more than respectable.

I didn't deny it.  in fact, I acknowledged he's improved.

He's respectable on offense at this point.  he's not a go-to scorer which is a quality I prefer in a SF.  granted that's my personal preference for that position but I think to get to a contender level as a team, we need a SF that forces the SF on the other team to expend energy on D.  Crowder can't be ignored by the defense but he's nowhere near commanding a double team

[Csfan1984]

I don't want to play devils advocate here but if deal was C's 2015 1st, Dallas 1st, Wolves 1st*, and Clippers 2015 1st for Winslow then Winslow still may be the better choice. Nothing to do with Crowder just looking at the deal  for Winslow. Also let's not forget it would have consolidated picks and gave a successor to Turner as well a year early.

[TheSundanceKid]

I never had that much of a fancy for Winslow. When there was talk of him going 3rd I immediately thought it was over the top. Back when we were on the bubble and could easily have slid to the 9th pick I was very high on Hezonja. I felt like he had that killer instinct we wanted to develop.

Of course we traded for IT who has that same vibe so in some ways I'm happy. IIRC I had the draft as:
Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Hezonja
Porzingis
Johnson
Winslow
Cauley-Stein

[Fafnir]

Charlotte was definitely foolish for not taking the deal.

Oh well got to move on, I'd like to have Winslow still though. Not all guys who struggle offensively early on (especially on a playoff team with guys like Wade/Dragic) are doomed to never develop either.

Look at how far Butler has come on that end. I think Butler is the best case for Winslow, that sort of progression.

[slamtheking]

I never had that much of a fancy for Winslow. When there was talk of him going 3rd I immediately thought it was over the top. Back when we were on the bubble and could easily have slid to the 9th pick I was very high on Hezonja. I felt like he had that killer instinct we wanted to develop.

Of course we traded for IT who has that same vibe so in some ways I'm happy. IIRC I had the draft as:
Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Hezonja
Porzingis
Johnson
Winslow
Cauley-Stein

That doesn't even include Turner.  very deep for really good prospects.  amazing how the depth of the draft can vary so much from year to year. 

[td450]

I'd still do the deal, and I think he will be an excellent offensive player in a few years. He makes good decisions, passes very well, and will be tough to keep out of the lane. He can take contact and finish. Next year, he'll start to show more, and by the time he's 22, he'll be producing consistent offense.

I don't doubt that Spoelstra is a good coach, but Stevens would have made more out of Winslow by now. Stevens is better at figuring out what players are good at and setting up roles than any coach I've ever seen.

If we had him, Crowder would still start and play normal minutes. Turner and Jerebko would lose the minutes, not Crowder. We would play more small ball and have a terrifying defense. It might hurt us a bit this year because Turner is playing so well, but in the longer term, Winslow would be perfect for us without diminishing Crowder. Both guys can play 3 or 4.

[Ilikesports17]

I never had that much of a fancy for Winslow. When there was talk of him going 3rd I immediately thought it was over the top. Back when we were on the bubble and could easily have slid to the 9th pick I was very high on Hezonja. I felt like he had that killer instinct we wanted to develop.

Of course we traded for IT who has that same vibe so in some ways I'm happy. IIRC I had the draft as:
Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Hezonja
Porzingis
Johnson
Winslow
Cauley-Stein

That doesn't even include Turner.  very deep for really good prospects.  amazing how the depth of the draft can vary so much from year to year.

This years draft could still have some nice depth.
Right now the topo group isnt all  that big
Ingram Simmons then Bender Brown Dunn
but
Murray, Skal, Davis, Rabb, Poeltl, Ellenson, Luwawe could all look like really nice prospects by the time the draft rolls around.

[slamtheking]

I never had that much of a fancy for Winslow. When there was talk of him going 3rd I immediately thought it was over the top. Back when we were on the bubble and could easily have slid to the 9th pick I was very high on Hezonja. I felt like he had that killer instinct we wanted to develop.

Of course we traded for IT who has that same vibe so in some ways I'm happy. IIRC I had the draft as:
Towns
Okafor
Russell
Mudiay
Hezonja
Porzingis
Johnson
Winslow
Cauley-Stein

That doesn't even include Turner.  very deep for really good prospects.  amazing how the depth of the draft can vary so much from year to year.

This years draft could still have some nice depth.
Right now the topo group isnt all  that big
Ingram Simmons then Bender Brown Dunn
but
Murray, Skal, Davis, Rabb, Poeltl, Ellenson, Luwawe could all look like really nice prospects by the time the draft rolls around.

we'll see but last year the hype for those prospects was there prior to the tournament IIRC.  not so this year.  in any case, if we still have the Dallas pick on draft night I hope that there's someone available that looks like a really solid prospect. 

[fugazzi24]

We truly dodged a bullet with Winslow. Not that he is a bad player or prospect but we offered way way to much for him. I was never enamored by him and wanted Myles Turner a bit more.

It has become clear from recent drafts that there are players even in the late first round that can be very good. Most often these players are either overlooked college seniors (Draymond) or young foreign big guys (Capella), as two recent examples.