Anthony Bennett Waived....Again

[Eddie20]

Hey, LarBrd!  Don't the Celtics have an open roster spot after waiving Lee?  It's our big opportunity to finally get this guy!!

Mike

We wouldn't have any minutes for him.  There's like 8 power forwards already on the team.

Can't you ever just admit you're wrong? It was you that had a rambling thread about how we should trade the #16 pick that was capped with this amazing gem:

A 5'9 midget like IT will always be somewhat of an liability on the defensive end and that prevent him from ever being taken seriously as a starter in this league.   A lankly plodding big man like Olynyk will never be taken seriously as a rim protector due to his T-Rex arms.   An overweight ground-oriented big like Sullinger will never be seen as a threat above the rim.  Some of this stuff doesn't matter.  But when evaluating prospects, there's some stuff that stands out.  We see that Biyombo has freakish length and can develop into a rim protector.  We see Nerlens Noel's speed and size and how it can impact a team's defense.   We can see Anthony Bennett's shooting stroke, movement and explosiveness and how that can translate into success.   We can see how a guy like Nik Stauskas has the tools to eventually develop into a floor-spacing dangerous offensive weapon. 

[Thruthelookingglass]

#1 pick trivia sidebar.  Since the 1970 draft the Celtics have had 4 former top picks play for them.  Who are they?  (Kind of an easy one)

That was fun.  I'll confess I had to look at a list but I did pick them out.  I won't post in case anyone else wants to have a go.

[tankcity!]

Hey, LarBrd!  Don't the Celtics have an open roster spot after waiving Lee?  It's our big opportunity to finally get this guy!!

Mike

We wouldn't have any minutes for him.  There's like 8 power forwards already on the team.

Can't you ever just admit you're wrong? It was you that had a rambling thread about how we should trade the #16 pick that was capped with this amazing gem:

A 5'9 midget like IT will always be somewhat of an liability on the defensive end and that prevent him from ever being taken seriously as a starter in this league.   A lankly plodding big man like Olynyk will never be taken seriously as a rim protector due to his T-Rex arms.   An overweight ground-oriented big like Sullinger will never be seen as a threat above the rim.  Some of this stuff doesn't matter.  But when evaluating prospects, there's some stuff that stands out.  We see that Biyombo has freakish length and can develop into a rim protector.  We see Nerlens Noel's speed and size and how it can impact a team's defense.   We can see Anthony Bennett's shooting stroke, movement and explosiveness and how that can translate into success.   We can see how a guy like Nik Stauskas has the tools to eventually develop into a floor-spacing dangerous offensive weapon. 

Do you have Bird quotes saved on a word document or something? Where do you find these?

[Eddie20]

Hey, LarBrd!  Don't the Celtics have an open roster spot after waiving Lee?  It's our big opportunity to finally get this guy!!

Mike

We wouldn't have any minutes for him.  There's like 8 power forwards already on the team.

Can't you ever just admit you're wrong? It was you that had a rambling thread about how we should trade the #16 pick that was capped with this amazing gem:

A 5'9 midget like IT will always be somewhat of an liability on the defensive end and that prevent him from ever being taken seriously as a starter in this league.   A lankly plodding big man like Olynyk will never be taken seriously as a rim protector due to his T-Rex arms.   An overweight ground-oriented big like Sullinger will never be seen as a threat above the rim.  Some of this stuff doesn't matter.  But when evaluating prospects, there's some stuff that stands out.  We see that Biyombo has freakish length and can develop into a rim protector.  We see Nerlens Noel's speed and size and how it can impact a team's defense.   We can see Anthony Bennett's shooting stroke, movement and explosiveness and how that can translate into success.   We can see how a guy like Nik Stauskas has the tools to eventually develop into a floor-spacing dangerous offensive weapon. 

Do you have Bird quotes saved on a word document or something? Where do you find these?

Google search of the virtues of Bennet's game will provide a bunch of reference material from LB33. Not many authors have the same sentiment.

[LarBrd33]

Lol predicable. 

As soon as I saw the news, I assumed someone would be calling me out on Celticsblog.  So just to get this out of the way... 

Before the draft this year it was pretty clear there was a big drop-off before our range (#16).   This was confirmed pretty handily when we reportedly offered #16 + three additional 1st round picks (including the Brooklyn 2016 1st according to Bill Simmons) in an effort to move up from #16 to #9.  We couldn't do it.  Shame, because there's a handful of quality players who were taken before #16 like Winslow, Miles Turner and Devin Booker.   But the consensus seemed to be that by the time we picked, it was a crap shoot. 

So I floated the idea (which I admitted was ridiculous at the time) asking if it would be worth it to trade the #16 pick for a buy low bust with potential. 

My case for Anthony Bennett:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=78383.0
My case for Nik Stauskas:  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=78864.0

The whole premise was that both of those guys were awful and obviously available... so would we be better off gambling on one of those busts finally reaching their potential or gambling on ending up with something substantial at #16?  I was trying to start a discussion during a boring part of the year.   I also acknowledged that there was a decent chance none of those guys would be in the league in the few years (Stauskas, Bennett or whatever we ended up with at #16).  Based on James Young weak start (#17 pick who couldn't get out of d-league), I wasn't all that optimistic about the draft pick.  I wasn't all that optimistic about Bennett or Stauskas either, but I saw the case for gambling on one of them.


So anyways, Bennett's season averages 1.5 points, 1.2 rebounds, 0 assists, 0.0 blocks and 0.3 steals with 30% shooting and 21% from the line were awful.  Maybe he never plays a meaningful NBA minute.

But we also ended up reaching at #16 for a guy who was projected 2nd round in a lot of mocks (Terry Rozier) and so far his season averages are a Bennett-esque:  1.4 points, 0.9 rebounds, 0.6 assists, 0 blocks, 0 steals with 24% shooting and 15% from three... who knows if he'll have a career either.  The "crap shoot" label of that draft range seems to have been fitting.  Lots of people here think the guys we took 28th and 33rd will be better than the guy who took #16. 


As for Nik Stauskas, he's shooting 48%/49%/80% this month.  He might actually end up having a career.   

Mario Hezonja has has a pretty disappointing start to his rookie season.  At some point this offseason I might start a thread that says something to the extent of, "If the Brooklyn pick ends up outside of the top 5, would you trade it for Hezonja?" ... and I'm sure that'll get taken out of context if Hezonja fails to ever make it in the league.  In general, I like like the idea of buying low on young prospects who have failed to live up to their potential yet and can be had for cheap.  Ainge has a rich history of targeting those types. 

[LarBrd33]

Hey, LarBrd!  Don't the Celtics have an open roster spot after waiving Lee?  It's our big opportunity to finally get this guy!!

Mike

We wouldn't have any minutes for him.  There's like 8 power forwards already on the team.

Can't you ever just admit you're wrong? It was you that had a rambling thread about how we should trade the #16 pick that was capped with this amazing gem:

A 5'9 midget like IT will always be somewhat of an liability on the defensive end and that prevent him from ever being taken seriously as a starter in this league.   A lankly plodding big man like Olynyk will never be taken seriously as a rim protector due to his T-Rex arms.   An overweight ground-oriented big like Sullinger will never be seen as a threat above the rim.  Some of this stuff doesn't matter.  But when evaluating prospects, there's some stuff that stands out.  We see that Biyombo has freakish length and can develop into a rim protector.  We see Nerlens Noel's speed and size and how it can impact a team's defense.   We can see Anthony Bennett's shooting stroke, movement and explosiveness and how that can translate into success.   We can see how a guy like Nik Stauskas has the tools to eventually develop into a floor-spacing dangerous offensive weapon. 

Do you have Bird quotes saved on a word document or something? Where do you find these?

i imagine you could find them easily enough on his Instagram account.  Mostly just posts dedicated to me and Jonathan Taylor Thomas. 

[LarBrd33]

Hey, LarBrd!  Don't the Celtics have an open roster spot after waiving Lee?  It's our big opportunity to finally get this guy!!

Mike

We wouldn't have any minutes for him.  There's like 8 power forwards already on the team.

Can't you ever just admit you're wrong? It was you that had a rambling thread about how we should trade the #16 pick that was capped with this amazing gem:

Still blatantly stalking me from thread to thread taking my quotes out of context, I see.  I was responding honestly to a comment that said, "I don't have any hate towards Bennett, I'm not even arguing we should not send 16 for him if it was possible. I just find it amusing how other players who haven't even proven they are better than Pressey get so much love when our guys get trashed."

My full response in-context:

Some of that is internal pessimism from folks like me who overcompensate with anti-homer grey-tinted glasses.    But some of what you're lamenting is just our inherent gravitation towards physical characteristics.

You'd think that a fanbase that won 3 championships with the infamously slow/unathletic Bird would know better, but even I (whose screenname is named after him) is a slave to conventional wisdom regarding the human body.  And you, whose screenname is named after Shaq, should understand as well as any what kind of impact the human body can make on this game.    A 5'9 midget like IT will always be somewhat of an liability on the defensive end and that prevent him from ever being taken seriously as a starter in this league.   A lankly plodding big man like Olynyk will never be taken seriously as a rim protector due to his T-Rex arms.   An overweight ground-oriented big like Sullinger will never be seen as a threat above the rim.  Some of this stuff doesn't matter.  But when evaluating prospects, there's some stuff that stands out.  We see that Biyombo has freakish length and can develop into a rim protector.  We see Nerlens Noel's speed and size and how it can impact a team's defense.   We can see Anthony Bennett's shooting stroke, movement and explosiveness and how that can translate into success.   We can see how a guy like Nik Stauskas has the tools to eventually develop into a floor-spacing dangerous offensive weapon.   We can see how a beast of a human like DeAndre Jordan can develop and use his athleticism, strength and size to impact the game.  Alternatively, we can see how a 6'2 180 pound guard like Bradley will always struggle to use his main strength (defensive intensity) against larger guards.  This kind of thinking isn't limited to our perception of guys on other teams.  People here sold themselves on Fab Melo's potential.  There's a reason why James Young has so many fans here.   "Potential" is subjective and sometimes arbitrary, but we have certain things we consistently look for.   Sadly, Brian Scalabrine had a perceived ceiling.  Darius Miles didn't.   But of course, that doesn't mean Miles ended up having a better career.

You aren't wrong in pointing out that some of the guys we have are more productive than some of the guys we want.  But there's this belief that our guys have a ceiling while others have untapped potential.  Some of that is anti-homerism.  Some of it is true.

I was admitting that as unfair as it is, we tend to judge players based on their physical characteristics.   As recently as earlier this season it was hard for many people (myself included) to take a 5'9 midget like IT seriously as a starter.  Hard to imagine Olynyk defending the rim with those t-rex arms.   Meanwhile, players like Perry Jones show up and we give them the benefit of the doubt based on their physical characteristics.   I was exaggerating my descriptions to make a point about the unfair criticism of players based on their non-conventional body types and the glorifying of players with prototypical size/athleticism.  Fair or unfair, it happens.  Obviously, players can defy those expectations... like in the case of Thomas this year who not only has proven a capable starter, but made the all-star team. 

Per usual, the subtleties of my point didn't land with you.  You'd rather be an instigating troll and take my quotes out of context to suggest I was comparing Anthony Bennett to Isaiah Thomas. 

Also if you look at my original post about Bennett, I'm very clear with my stance on him:

Fwiw, here are his highlights for the season.   It's clear that the kid still has tools that could translate into a starter-caliber big man in this league:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd9YOFoN8Ys

Whether or not he puts those tools together is still unknown.  I don't think it's fair to completely write  him off yet.

At this point, it might be time to write him off.   Still, his NBA production this year is a wash with the guy we took #16... so there's that.   Fwiw, I haven't written off Stauskas yet.  His shooting has been solid the past two months and he's still young.   I wouldn't be shocked if he has a better career than Rozier.

[Roy H.]

"Calling out" other posters isn't appropriate.  This needs to stop now.  Keep commentary related to discussion of viewpoints, rather than critiquing other posters.

[jambr380]

But I'm not sure what I'll do with my life if I can't watch Eddie point to old LarBrd quotes and see what LarBrd says in defense of himself (quite eloquently, I might add). This has become the main reason I check in with the forums each day 

[crimson_stallion]

Anthony Bennett - has to now be the biggest bust of a #1 pick ever.

Think of where Cleveland would be if they had drafted Noel #1 as they should have done instead of picking this waste.
OR
think of where Minny would be if they had gotten Noel in that trade with Wiggins instead of Bennett with Wiggins.

Kwame Brown is still the much bigger bust, not even close.  Bennett was never an undisputed #1 pick, he was more of a head scratcher at #1 in a weak draft.

Kwame was supposed to be the next big thing, KG with more bulk.....he was going to be picked by and groomed by the best of all time.  He was an epic fail, completely killed the wizards at the time, and is MJs worst pick to lead his terrible GMing resume.

I dunno man, i would argue Milicic might be an even bigger bust.

He was drafted above Carmelo Anthony, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade...and I'm not sure he was any more productive than Kwame Brown was!

As for Bennett, I really don't see the point myself. We have something like 6 or 7 bigs on this roster, and we're struggling to find playing time for guys like Zeller, who are good enough to be playing 20+ minutes a night...let alone prospects like Mickey, who seems to be showing plenty to suggest he is deserving of some minutes.

In addition to that we also have four prospects on this tea (Mickey, Rozier, Hunter and Young) who are taking up roster spots and not playing.

i don't see how it makes any sense at all to use this spare roster spot on either:
1) Another big undersized big man (may as well have just kept Lee)
2) Another prospect who won't play

Especially when you consider that:
1) We have about a gazillion picks for next year that we can use to add prospects if we want to
2) Bennett is not very promising as a prospect, and has shown very little NBA potential

I just don't understand why we would do it. We're a #3 seed hoping to make a nice playoff run, so why would you use a final roster spot to add a prospect who has almost zero probability of playing?  Makes so much more sense to use that pick to add a defensive minded big, an outside shooter, or some veteran insurance in the backcourt.

[Eja117]

#1 pick trivia sidebar.  Since the 1970 draft the Celtics have had 4 former top picks play for them.  Who are they?  (Kind of an easy one)

I find this difficult. I can only think of a guy who liked candy, a guy that was never nervous, and I think a guy who had life long feet issues and was a hippie. Oh wow. I sorta missed an obvious one

[Eja117]

A bennett is an obvious buy low.

[crimson_stallion]

At this point, it might be time to write him off.   Still, his NBA production this year is a wash with the guy we took #16... so there's that.   Fwiw, I haven't written off Stauskas yet.  His shooting has been solid the past two months and he's still young.   I wouldn't be shocked if he has a better career than Rozier.

Personally, I think it's definitely time to write him off.

Yeah he's only 22 years old, but he's been in the league for three seasons now with a total of 128 games played as a pro, and statistically he has shown absolutely zero signs of improvement.  I'm not talking about emerging or breaking out - I'm just talking about developing and improving as a player.  His rebound rate has improved slightly this year compared to last, but barely at all and the small sample size almost makes the difference irrelevant. He's still yet to shoot over 42% from the field or 32% from three of 65% from the line for a full season.   Pretty much showing no signs of promise at this stage, really.

Also I would be VERY shocked if Bennett has a better career than Rozier.  Rozier is infinitely more talented, and he is already tearing up the D league to the tune of 19 points, 6 rebounds and 9 assists per game...and is starting to show some really nice chemistry with Mickey too.  Kid has a lot of potential, and the right attitude too. 

[slamtheking]

#1 pick trivia sidebar.  Since the 1970 draft the Celtics have had 4 former top picks play for them.  Who are they?  (Kind of an easy one)

I find this difficult. I can only think of a guy who liked candy, a guy that was never nervous, and I think a guy who had life long feet issues and was a hippie. Oh wow. I sorta missed an obvious one

a guy best known for winning titles on other teams before coming to the C's

[LarBrd33]

I still think Bennett showed NBA tools.  There was potential there.  All things I pointed out before when I considered the idea of moving a low-value draft pick for him (an idea that didn't really make sense outside the forum thought experiment bubble, because his rookie contract at the time made trading for him extremely unlikely).   But his combination of size, shooting stroke and explosiveness were clearly what got him drafted and those things were on display occassionally.  It was never a given he'd put the tools together, though.  Gerald Green comes to mind when I think about Bennett.   Green showed NBA tools, but it took him 8 years until he put any of those tools together into a competent NBA rotation player.  Granted, as bad as Green was, he showed more than Bennett has thus far.   Still, maybe Bennett resurfaces some day.