turner maturing under brad /danny-how good can he get

[jambr380]

I think we are going to be surprised by what some players get paid this summer, but I am not sure Turner is one of those guys. I see GMs not wanting to heavily commit to him since it has taken him this long to adjust to a system and he may not adjust to their team's system. It is also looking like he is going to be a career 6th-7th man type, so he likely won't be offered starter money.

I see Danny offering him the same $7ishM that our other guard/wings are getting and Turner should seriously consider taking it unless someone else is going to massively overpay. He has found a good home here in Boston and he has seen what it's like to not be in one (Indy).

[mctyson]

1. He is really bad at defense.

You are completely wrong here.  He is a net negative for opponents offensive rating when you look at his On/Off statistics.  If he was "really bad" that simply wouldn't be the case.  I actually think he is one of the most versatile defenders on the team.

2. He is bad at not filling lanes on the fast break.

Weird criticism, no way to actually quantify this, but still I think completely wrong.  Just look at two plays against the Heat yesterday:  his reverse slam after the Smart feed, and his amazing pass to Zeller down the lane.  Those were perfectly executed fast breaks.

3. He is hurting Smart's progression,  imo.

Maybe, but again there is no way to quantify this and I don't think if this was true, Stevens would play them both together.  Marcus plays both with and off the ball.  He needs to be able to do both, and playing with Turner helps in that regard.

[ThaPreacher]

I am a fan of Turner.
He is not a player who is un-tradeable- (sign and trade)
He is a great role player!  He is one of the few Celtics who can score or facilitate off the dribble.
(IT being the other). The thing about Turner is that he is willing to learn.
Had he been selected 15th or 16th overall, we would be touting him a steal.
I don't believe he is worth 10 mil a year.  6 mil a year at 3 years-good deal for Boston.

He is clearly a Stevens-guy. And is there anyone who is more quotable?
For that alone we should re-sign him at a good price.

[Rosco917]

This Celtic team as it's structured needs him in the 4th. quarter, to take heat off IT.

Besides that, he plays PG, SG, and SF, and does a pretty good job at anyone of them. He's youngish, and he causes a size mismatch at PG and SG. Something you can't say about many members of this team. 

If we had another excellent scoring option in the 4th to go along with Thomas, then I'd be less enthusiastic about keeping him...but we don't. Unless we find out we have a stud/star on the horizon he'll have to do.

[Dino Pitino]

I am a fan of Turner.
He is not a player who is untradeable.
He is a great role player!  He is one of the few Celtics who can score or facilitate off the dribble.
(IT being the other). The thing about Turner is that he is willing to learn.
Had he been selected 15th or 16th overall, we would be touting him a steal.
I don't believe he is worth 10 mil a year.  6 mil a year at 3 years-good deal for Boston.

He is clearly a Stevens-guy. And is there anyone who is more quotable?
For that alone we should re-sign him at a good price.

Untradeable is moot. Question is, is he re-signable?

I think our frame of reference for what players should earn has been skewed way too low because of the Isaiah-Avery-Jae contracts Ainge has been brilliant enough to collect. Those guys are way, way underpaid. Turner being only 27, the residue of #2 pick pedigree, his versatility, ball-handling ability, trend of improvement, clutchness, good defense, good character, and the 16/8/7 February per-36 production and relative efficiency should that continue...it all spells competition for him. He's not on the scrap pile anymore. There might be lowly teams that even offer him a starting role. But at the least he'll be one of the top choices on the Free Agent Bench Players list, and he'll probably be offered much more than 6, perhaps even double.

But I agree with everything else you said, so TP!

[nickagneta]

Are we going to pay him $10m a year?

Yes, unless we get Durant. Turner is worth it. $10 million is basically going to be the new MLE, what you pay for your top bench players.

1. He is really bad at defense.

2. He is bad at not filling lanes on the fast break.

3. He is hurting Smart's progression,  imo.

But, yes, CBS has seemed to settled him down and get the most out of him.

CBS probably can't fix 1, could improve 2 greatly, and has a major problem with 3.

We are going to have big money to spend, like a lot of other teams, and I'd like to upgrade Turner if we could to someone who compliments Smart a little bit better.

1. What? Why is he bad at defense? Explain.

2. That's a rather minor weakness.

3. No he's not. Smart never has to develop into a floor general, definitely not while Isaiah is our PG which he will be for the foreseeable future, and regardless Smart can still improve as a ball handler and distributor anyway, we don't need to subtract Turner for that to happen.

He is out of place or gets beat on defense very regularly He also sticks to every pick like velcro. His length does get him a few steals, here and there, but overall it's not good.

And I greatly disagree with 3. Smart has special written all over him. He needs to be in full control of the 2nd unit so he can further develop.

Atlanta is dealing with the same thing with Teague and Schroeder.  Teague is a nice player but is impeading Schroeders progress.

I like the Turner/Smart bench combo and could care less who is the floor general at the time. In this offense it doesn't matter who starts the play it only matters how the play is developed and when the best open shot is taken. Let Smart develop alongside Turner and help the team farther along with another very good playmaker playing in the same unit to pick up the slack on areas where Smart struggles.

Its not an offense where the ball gets stuck in one player's hands and will be best played when there are 3-4 very good to great ball handlers/passers/shooters are running around the perimeter with a dominant big playing down low. If that big is dominant by being a stretch 4 or stretch 5 so be it but that big better be an extraordinary rebounder/defender/rim protector.

If Turner is Crowder's primary backup you can have a PG/SG/SF rotation of

Thomas
Bradley
Smart
Turner
Crowder

each playing 29 minutes per game and Crowder only playing 1 minute at PF.

If that is what happens long term in those five rotational positions, there is no way to claim any one player took minutes another didn't have to develop in. If you're getting 29MPG, you're getting plenty of time to develop your game and help the team win now all at the same time. And none of the other players can claim they didn't get the same chance as the next guy.

Meanwhile in the frontcourt

Horford
Olynyk
Sullinger(yes, they re-sign Sully) or some other 2016 Free Agent signing

each get 28 minutes and our best player from among:

2016 Nets pick
James Young
Terry Rozier
Jordan Mickey
RJ Hunter

Gets 8 minutes

 

[arctic 3.0]

For the first month of the season in 2012, 2013, and 2014, Turner also had people saying "Finally, Turner is playing like an All Star/#2 overall pick!", with a TS% in those months in the .530-545 range, a sizable positive net rating (except for November of 2013), and per-36 averages in the range of 15-20 pts, 7-9 reb, 4 ast. This February (and January, first back-to-back months like this ever) the TS% is up in that range again (as opposed to the usual sub-.500 atrocities), his net rating (111-105) is the best it's been since January of 2012 (101-93), only the third month of his career with a sizable positive net rating, and his per-36 averages are 15.7 pts, 8.3 reb, and 7.2 ast. Of course, the stats don't show how ballsy and clutch and smart he's been in the fourth quarter, lol. I think you're right, rollie, he really is playing like a #2 pick (roughly) now, but not just temporarily, has actually passed a turning point, thanks to the restoration specialists at Ainge & Stevens Inc. And I think you're right that we really need to keep him, unless renouncing him is the only way to get Durant. This free agent class blows, and if it weren't us he were doing this for, we'd all be looking at him as one of the hidden gems of the summer, like, "Hey, let's sign Turner, it looks like he finally figured things out and is [roughly] fulfilling his #2 pick potential as a late bloomer"...and what's satisfying as a fan is knowing that Ainge was already two or three steps ahead of all of us on this when he first signed Turner as an even more hidden gem-like substance, probably figured this as one of the workable trajectories for Turner. Why would we ever want to let go of a 16/8/7-caliber player who plays good defense and isn't inefficient anymore and is not just willing but comfortable coming off the bench? Turner Point for rollie, haha!

This is absolutely spot on.
TP

[The One]

I like Turner...tough, fighter, versatile.

He's only 27 so he could get even a little bit better.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

1. He is really bad at defense.

2. He is bad at not filling lanes on the fast break.

3. He is hurting Smart's progression,  imo.

But, yes, CBS has seemed to settled him down and get the most out of him.

CBS probably can't fix 1, could improve 2 greatly, and has a major problem with 3.

We are going to have big money to spend, like a lot of other teams, and I'd like to upgrade Turner if we could to someone who compliments Smart a little bit better.

hhmmnnnnnnnnnn

[bballdog384]

I think we are going to be surprised by what some players get paid this summer, but I am not sure Turner is one of those guys. I see GMs not wanting to heavily commit to him since it has taken him this long to adjust to a system and he may not adjust to their team's system. It is also looking like he is going to be a career 6th-7th man type, so he likely won't be offered starter money.

I see Danny offering him the same $7ishM that our other guard/wings are getting and Turner should seriously consider taking it unless someone else is going to massively overpay. He has found a good home here in Boston and he has seen what it's like to not be in one (Indy).

Agreed. Don't think he should get paid more than Crowder and Bradley, but something similar to their deals would seem to benefit both parties.

[SHAQATTACK]

Ceiling Brandon Bass

[Chief]

Ceiling Brandon Bass

About the same on defense.

[Neurotic Guy]

There are a couple of great posters here that have ET very high on their hate-meters.  Turner is a feast-famine player who lately has been tilting the ratio much more to the "feast" side.  If he continues to reduce the mistakes and increase the positive plays, he will earn that 10M/year payday.   But there is no question he'll have some bad stretches and bad games.  We can expect to hear the Turner-hate at high volume during/after those performances.

[Chief]

There are a couple of great posters here that have ET very high on their hate-meters.  Turner is a feast-famine player who lately has been tilting the ratio much more to the "feast" side.  If he continues to reduce the mistakes and increase the positive plays, he will earn that 10M/year payday.   But there is no question he'll have some bad stretches and bad games.  We can expect to hear the Turner-hate at high volume during/after those performances.

Do you ever worry about a player in a contract year?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_year_phenomenon

[Neurotic Guy]

There are a couple of great posters here that have ET very high on their hate-meters.  Turner is a feast-famine player who lately has been tilting the ratio much more to the "feast" side.  If he continues to reduce the mistakes and increase the positive plays, he will earn that 10M/year payday.   But there is no question he'll have some bad stretches and bad games.  We can expect to hear the Turner-hate at high volume during/after those performances.

Do you ever worry about a player in a contract year?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_year_phenomenon

Always.  But ET's improvement has seemed steady over the last 2 years and his work ethic seems to have turned a corner to the positive.  It could all fall once he signs for big $$.  I'm not sure I'd go the 10M a year if I were Ainge, but I will say with some conviction that he's earned himself a good payday (especially if current play continues).