Author Topic: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.  (Read 9998 times)

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Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2016, 08:26:41 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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First, everyone should give the OP a TP for a concise, informative post that you don't have to google after to make sure you got teh whole story (although I probably will anyways, cuz I'm a crazy person)

Also, I am concerned about how Horford will hold up. This is the 4th consecutive year that his rebounds per 36 have gotten worse, and he's played less than 30 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons. He's a competent player and addresses a need, but isn't exactly a world beater and is getting up there in age. I'd like to have him but a wouldn't break the bank. Sullinger, Lee, and one or two mid-level first rounders.

I hope in the off-season Ainge can get Horford to sign a 1+1 PO or a 2+1 PO contract, similar to what Lebron did, or what Durant will do.

Horford is a guy I could see being an absolute shell of himself at 33. I could also see him David-Westing himself to a productive career as a 15 and 7 guy who D's up.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2016, 08:38:29 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Horford's injury history makes me a little nervous but not enough to not do the deal. His age doesn't scare me off a bit. He's 29 and will turn 30 in June, which means a 5 year max deal will run from age 30-34. Looking at what Gasol is doing now at age 35, Dirk at 37, and Duncan at 39 makes me feel okay with it. If his game was built on athleticism like Dwight Howard, I wouldn't trade for him. But as others have said, Horford is a skilled, smart player who should age well. I could even see his next 3 years being the best of his career.

Especially if we keep Sully and Sully can bang with some of the bigger bodies in the paint once in a while and give Horford some rest.
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Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2016, 08:45:45 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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As long as it doesn't cost Marcus, Nets pick, or Crowder...

Then I'm in!

This, I agree 100%

Al Horford is a quality NBA big. He would upgrade our rim protection right away and he will fit in with our offense just fine with his passing, shooting and all around offensive game.

If it doesn't cost us our major assets, we need to go for it.
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C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 08:56:28 PM »

Offline cltc5

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All our picks turner hunter roZier sully zeller lee Bradley young jerebko for horford Teague Carroll korver=nba title

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 08:57:26 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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All our picks turner hunter roZier sully zeller lee Bradley young jerebko for horford Teague Carroll korver=nba title
Carroll doesn't play for the Hawks anymore.

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 09:02:39 PM »

Offline flybono

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..


Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 09:12:12 PM »

Offline ssspence

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First, everyone should give the OP a TP for a concise, informative post that you don't have to google after to make sure you got teh whole story (although I probably will anyways, cuz I'm a crazy person)

Also, I am concerned about how Horford will hold up. This is the 4th consecutive year that his rebounds per 36 have gotten worse, and he's played less than 30 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons. He's a competent player and addresses a need, but isn't exactly a world beater and is getting up there in age. I'd like to have him but a wouldn't break the bank. Sullinger, Lee, and one or two mid-level first rounders.

I hope in the off-season Ainge can get Horford to sign a 1+1 PO or a 2+1 PO contract, similar to what Lebron did, or what Durant will do.

Horford is a guy I could see being an absolute shell of himself at 33. I could also see him David-Westing himself to a productive career as a 15 and 7 guy who D's up.

I think the key question here is: does Ainge care? Is he willing to overpay Horford this summer to improve the FA profile of the org this summer / next summer?

There's no vaccuum for contracts in the NBA. If Horford is enough to attract that next FA.....
Mike

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Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 09:36:26 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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I trust Mannix more than I trust A. Sherrod... but just barely. Looks like a lot of conjecture and rehashing old rumours.

Also, I am concerned about how Horford will hold up. This is the 4th consecutive year that his rebounds per 36 have gotten worse, and he's played less than 30 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons. He's a competent player and addresses a need, but isn't exactly a world beater and is getting up there in age. I'd like to have him but a wouldn't break the bank. Sullinger, Lee, and one or two mid-level first rounders.

I tend to agree, to be honest.

Even when he was in his absolute prime, Horford was never a 'no brainer' All-Star selection.  All of his life he has been treading a very fine line between being an All-Star, versus just being a really good starter.

Since that time he has declined and has gone through a bunch of injuries, and while he is still a "very good player", he's no longer the "fringe all star" he was in his prime.

Add to that the fact that he is 30 (meaning he has no upside, and you can expect a very hard sharp decline some time in the next 2-3 years), that he is on the last year of his contract (so there is a risk of him walking after the season), and that he would likely not re-sign for any less than a max contract (which would be over $20M per year over probably 4 or 5 years) and you have yourself quite a significant risk here.

Even in the best case scenario (where you get him without giving up too much, and he does agree to re-sign) you are still taking a very big risk signing a banged up 30 year old former fringe all-star to a huge four year contract...during a time where every team will have cap space and will improving their rosters.

Question becomes - is it worth it?

Does Horford improve the team enough to justify taking that risk? 

By that what I mean is, does he make you an overnight contender? 

Because right now we are a #3 seed in the Eastern conference, which is about as close to 'contender' as you can get without actually being one.  So IMHO no deal is really worth making unless:

1) It makes us an instant contender
2) It improves us significantly in the long term
3) It creates enough draw to attract other big name free agents

I like Horford a lot, but I honestly don't think that this type of deal achieves any of the above. I don't think this deal pushes is up to a top 2 seed, personally.  I think it improves us sure, but only enough to create a big more distance between us and #4...which I don't feel is enough to justify the risk.

I also don't think Horford is a high enough profile player to give us any significant boost in "free agent attract-ability".  He's been In Atlanta for years and they best player they got out of it was Paul Millsap.  No disrespecting to Millsap, but he's not exactly Demarcus Cousins or Paul George.

I feel that it is a "high risk, modest gain" move.  Wouldn't HATE the deal if we did it, but don't love it either. 

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2016, 09:39:43 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

How many playoff series' has Horford won in his career, exactly?

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 09:44:11 PM »

Offline MJohnnyboy

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

Blake Griffin. Anthony Davis. A case could be made for Kyrie Irving and John Wall. Pretty sure Karl Anthony-Towns and Andrew Wiggins will be on that level in a few years.

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2016, 09:45:03 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

Blake Griffin, John Wall, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis aren't superstars?? News to me.

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2016, 09:56:08 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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First, everyone should give the OP a TP for a concise, informative post that you don't have to google after to make sure you got teh whole story (although I probably will anyways, cuz I'm a crazy person)

Also, I am concerned about how Horford will hold up. This is the 4th consecutive year that his rebounds per 36 have gotten worse, and he's played less than 30 games in 2 of the last 4 seasons. He's a competent player and addresses a need, but isn't exactly a world beater and is getting up there in age. I'd like to have him but a wouldn't break the bank. Sullinger, Lee, and one or two mid-level first rounders.

I hope in the off-season Ainge can get Horford to sign a 1+1 PO or a 2+1 PO contract, similar to what Lebron did, or what Durant will do.

Horford is a guy I could see being an absolute shell of himself at 33. I could also see him David-Westing himself to a productive career as a 15 and 7 guy who D's up.

I think the key question here is: does Ainge care? Is he willing to overpay Horford this summer to improve the FA profile of the org this summer / next summer?

There's no vaccuum for contracts in the NBA. If Horford is enough to attract that next FA.....

I'm hoping both parties would come to the same conclusion. Horford would want it because he could be signing his next (this time 4-yr) contract at 31 instead of 33, while the Celtics would be able to stay flexible heading into Smart and hopefully another franchise cornerstone are entering their prime.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2016, 10:07:55 PM »

Offline flybono

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

How many playoff series' has Horford won in his career, exactly?


Horford is a legit big that fills a desperate need on a well Coached Team.
You find a Shooter at the 3 and a defensive minded power forward you win the East..



Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2016, 10:12:08 PM »

Offline flybono

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Your not going to get a legit Big by offering up garbage picks and role players.

You want to win games or Playoff Series?
Your 2 best assets are the 16 Brooklyn #1 and Olynyk. I would not Deal both for Horford unless there is an extension in place and the Hawks add another Player you might be able to flip.

Outside of Simmons, the draft is again a developmental draft. How many years you going to wait for a Player to develop if he ever does.

Last 10 #1 Overall piks, name a Super Star? Up until Rose got hurt, there is none..

Blake Griffin, John Wall, Kyrie Irving and Anthony Davis aren't superstars?? News to me.


Come on guy. Your. Smarter than that.  Irving, Wall are no Rose in his prime. Griffin hasn't won with Paul and Davis will be in the lottery once again..


Re: Mannix: Al Horford is a legitimate possibility for the Celtics.
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2016, 10:29:58 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Wow they called it? 

Lol the guy behind the announce team tellin lol