Does Anyone See This Team Similar to that of 02?

[straightouttabahstun]

Remember the days of 'Toine and Pierce? We weren't winning the Finals that year but we made a solid playoff run, including that amazing game against the Nets. Granted I think we're in a better position with our coaching staff and our players than back then. I don't know, I am slightly reminded of that for some reason. I think there was a similar scrappy aesthetic as well. Thoughts?

[MJohnnyboy]

As long as this team doesn't trade any of its young players that will come back to bite them in the future like Joe Johnson did, sure.

[More Banners]

Solid defense, and live and die by the 3 with average to poor shooters?

Talent is more even across the roster, but without a young Pierce.

I'm not sure we would fare well in a playoff situation.

[slamtheking]

the thought ran threw my mind a couple of weeks ago --> a team getting by on hustle and living on the 3.

on big difference is, this team doesn't have Paul Pierce who was 1st or 2nd in the league in scoring points in the 4th quarter at that point in his career. 

[Big333223]

Like others have said, this team is winning on balance where the '02 team relied more on its 2 stars, but otherwise there are definite similarities. If this team wins 49 games, I'll be excited.

[Chief]

Remember the days of 'Toine and Pierce? We weren't winning the Finals that year but we made a solid playoff run, including that amazing game against the Nets. Granted I think we're in a better position with our coaching staff and our players than back then. I don't know, I am slightly reminded of that for some reason. I think there was a similar scrappy aesthetic as well. Thoughts?

Is that the year we traded Joe Johnson for a rental?

Let's not make the same mistake again.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Is that the year we traded Joe Johnson for a rental?

Let's not make the same mistake again.

Great post, TP.

I mean it was fun watching those teams, especially the game where we made AI cry after shooting like 59 3s in one game, but it wasn't fun watching the [dang] Nets celebrating in our house year after year.  I'd rather lose with JJ than go an extra 5 games with Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk.

[PhoSita]

I love IT, but he's no Paul Pierce.

[Hemingway]

I don't really see any similarities. We play like a team now. It was a 2 man show back then. Everyone would just watch AM and PP on O.

[Dino Pitino]

Is that the year we traded Joe Johnson for a rental?

Let's not make the same mistake again.

Great post, TP.

I mean it was fun watching those teams, especially the game where we made AI cry after shooting like 59 3s in one game, but it wasn't fun watching the [dang] Nets celebrating in our house year after year.  I'd rather lose with JJ than go an extra 5 games with Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk.

That '02 team was a hair away from a 3-1 lead on the Nets and a near-certain Finals appearance against a Lakers team that they had beaten in LA a few months before.

The Lakers, Nets, and Celtics were all two-headed top-heavy monsters. It was not a mistake to try to GFIN at the time, it almost worked, and I wouldn't take anything back about that postseason opportunity just for 5-7 never-special years of Joe Johnson.

[aingeforthree]

Remember the days of 'Toine and Pierce? We weren't winning the Finals that year but we made a solid playoff run, including that amazing game against the Nets. Granted I think we're in a better position with our coaching staff and our players than back then. I don't know, I am slightly reminded of that for some reason. I think there was a similar scrappy aesthetic as well. Thoughts?

I thought about that as well.  What I would add though, isn't this type of positioning unheard of ?  This type of a winning team, and yet a bunch of outside assets (draft picks, etc.) that are quite valuable in the grand scheme of things.  Youth, Solid Vets, team friendly contracts, treasure chest full of valuable draft picks, and a great staff.

It's a pretty sick set up.  Can't say that I've seen that.  EVER.

[Granath]

I don't really see any similarities. We play like a team now. It was a 2 man show back then. Everyone would just watch AM and PP on O.

TP. I understand that was an outside shooting team but I don't see many similarities. That was an chuck-and-duck two man show with a roster ill-suited for the coach. Walker had more minutes played than anyone in the league and Pierce was 5th. Both averaged over 40 minutes per game. We had two guys average more than 22 points per game (26 and 22) and no one else was even at 10 ppg.

This is a team concept. There are 7 guys who score more than 9ppg. 8 guys get more than 23 minutes per game of playing time but no one gets even 33 a game. It's a defense first squad who thrives on turnovers, not the 3 points shot.

So no, I'm not really seeing it.

[hpantazo]

No. In 2002 we had two stars, one of which became an all-time celtic great. This year we have none.

[LB3533]

I am a big PP/AW/JOb homer.....

Our current team is better for the long haul compared to that older team way back when. If that older team didn't win the chip that year or the year after, there was no chip in that team's future.

Right now, we are younger, more talented physically and offensively to run and score with the best of them.

As good as Dick Harter and Obie were on scrappy defensive schemes and forcing turnovers......Brad Stevens and crew are pretty top notch on the offensive side of the ball.

Because we are younger and more atheletic now, we could improve a lot on the defensive side of the ball.....way more upside to our team's defensive improvements compared to that '02 team.

Did we not just see what we did to WAS offense in that second half on Monday Night? 42 second half points! 91 points total for WAS on their home floor. WAS had been averaging 101ppg at home in the month of Jan entering that MON night game against us.

We have not sniffed our ceiling as a defensive team.....not even close. I do think Brad Stevens is still trying to find the right combination of players and rotations that fit and match well in terms of the defense. We will find the way, I am confident we will.

[Dino Pitino]

I am a big PP/AW/JOb homer.....

Our current team is better for the long haul compared to that older team way back when. If that older team didn't win the chip that year or the year after, there was no chip in that team's future.

Right now, we are younger, more talented physically and offensively to run and score with the best of them.

As good as Dick Harter and Obie were on scrappy defensive schemes and forcing turnovers......Brad Stevens and crew are pretty top notch on the offensive side of the ball.

Because we are younger and more atheletic now, we could improve a lot on the defensive side of the ball.....way more upside to our team's defensive improvements compared to that '02 team.

Did we not just see what we did to WAS offense in that second half on Monday Night? 42 second half points! 91 points total for WAS on their home floor. WAS had been averaging 101ppg at home in the month of Jan entering that MON night game against us.

We have not sniffed our ceiling as a defensive team.....not even close. I do think Brad Stevens is still trying to find the right combination of players and rotations that fit and match well in terms of the defense. We will find the way, I am confident we will.

TP. Average age of contributors this year is a good deal younger than '02. Kenny Anderson, Rodney Rogers, Eric Williams, Erick Strickland, Walter, and Tony Delk were all 28 or older at the time of the playoffs. Except for bit players like Jerebko and Lee, only Amir is quite that old this year. There's upside in more places now left to discover, even if none has a ceiling as high as Pierce's, the volume of above-average could be special in its own right, if a whole lineup's worth of above-averageness peaks at the same time after developing together with a few years of continuity.

I do think there's at least one similarity between '02 and '16, each team's competitive advantage in coaching leading to a sum greater than the parts. A team philosophy that best suits whatever talent there is on the roster, maximizing what for a lesser franchise with a weaker staff and inferior vision might result in a mid-lottery finish.

The other similarity is an emphasis on threes and D, although that's a similarity the '02 Celtics share with the league as a whole now. Harterball was a year ahead of the curve re: zone defense (and with that one-year shelf life to the advantage, it made sense to GFIN then) but in a way it also presaged the current NBA by about 15 years, with the glaring exception of emphasizing offensive efficiency. That three and D, tho.

Actually, turns out the team stats and league rankings are pretty similar, across several categories, more than you might expect before checking Basketball Reference.

Category: league rank '02, league rank '16

Defensive Ranking: 5th, 2nd
Offensive Ranking: 18th, 14th
Pace: 5th, 4th
eFG%: 15th, 21th
TO%: 7th, 7th
Defensive eFG%: 6th, 4th
Defensive TO%: 2nd, 4th

Across those seven categories, nearly the same team!
The biggest team difference stat-wise is rebounding.

Offensive REB%: 29th, 8th
Defensive REB%: 4th, 25th