Author Topic: Developing our own talent  (Read 1818 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Developing our own talent
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2016, 04:29:29 PM »

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21259
  • Tommy Points: 2451
We may have the opposite issue when it comes to development because C's are also trying to win. When trying to win you can not have so many inexperienced players part of the rotation. Sure if this team had just Smart, KO, Hunter and Mikey developing each would get proper roles and minutes to tune and develop their skills farther along but it's not just them. C's are try to win while developing
Smart
Rozier
Hunter
Young
Crowder (another year left to develop)
Sully
KO
Mikey
Zeller
More than half the roster needs development. So in trying to win and get them developed you mix them in constantly with different groups trying to create more experience and data. This may get them more experiences but it's not as good as fixed rotations in which they can grow accustomed and succeed. There are just too many guys to do the latter. DA should actually identify which guys he wants to keep long term that have starter potential. Move the guys he feels are limited to more bench type players. IMO KO, Sully, and Zeller are all off the bench players. He should package them with picks and expiring deals to bring in better players if he wants to win and still create room to develop players the right way.

What are we trying to win?

A first round exit from the playoffs with no big changes to our roster this year?

Or trying to keep pace until Danny makes a big move?

I can more than understand the 2nd but the 1st is a waste of time.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: Developing our own talent
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2016, 07:49:56 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1616
  • Tommy Points: 113
  • Peace it's a board. We all will never agree.
We may have the opposite issue when it comes to development because C's are also trying to win. When trying to win you can not have so many inexperienced players part of the rotation. Sure if this team had just Smart, KO, Hunter and Mikey developing each would get proper roles and minutes to tune and develop their skills farther along but it's not just them. C's are try to win while developing
Smart
Rozier
Hunter
Young
Crowder (another year left to develop)
Sully
KO
Mikey
Zeller
More than half the roster needs development. So in trying to win and get them developed you mix them in constantly with different groups trying to create more experience and data. This may get them more experiences but it's not as good as fixed rotations in which they can grow accustomed and succeed. There are just too many guys to do the latter. DA should actually identify which guys he wants to keep long term that have starter potential. Move the guys he feels are limited to more bench type players. IMO KO, Sully, and Zeller are all off the bench players. He should package them with picks and expiring deals to bring in better players if he wants to win and still create room to develop players the right way.

What are we trying to win?

A first round exit from the playoffs with no big changes to our roster this year?

Or trying to keep pace until Danny makes a big move?

I can more than understand the 2nd but the 1st is a waste of time.
I think we are right where we need to be. All our players are getting better. Playoff Experrience is important and a FA does not want to come to a rebuliding Team. Stevens also shows what a good coach he is in the Playoffs which helps that as well. I think Smart is going to be a top 20 player soon. If we did not have the other picks tanking wouldf be an option but Brooklyn's pick will be  good and that is great for us. Last night our talent showed the growth we all have been looking for. Lee Amir and Turner may net us something. I hope we get Hibbert for the playoffs myself.
"People look at players, watch them dribble between their legs and they say, 'There's a superstar.'  Well John Havlicek is a superstar, and most of the others are figments of writers' imagination."
--Jerry West, on John Havlicek

Re: Developing our own talent
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2016, 08:16:44 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25632
  • Tommy Points: 2723
The experience of the Bulls over the last few years is scary.  Only a blink of an eye ago, they were on the verge of being a true contender.   They had a league MVP (Rose) and a terrific energy player (Noah) along with growing complementary players.  With the emergence of Jimmy Butler, this is a team that could have had home-grown talent producing 2 big-time stars and a very strong 3rd wheel.   In addition, they go out and get Pau Gasol to add to a good supporting cast (Gibson, Hinrich, McDermott, Mirotic).  A team predominently built from the draft (own picks and draft night trades).   

I may be missing the boat on my Bulls assessment, but they seem to have peaked without really getting close.  Rose may never return to form and Noah (now injured and expiring contract) seems to have lost a step.  Butler may be the best dollar for dollar player in the league, but he isn't Michael Jordan. Butler needs to be a #2 rather than a #1 guy

The Warriors have developed their talent, but that's largely because Curry is proving to be a true Top 5 superstar (if not #1 in the league).  The C's have no one who projects even close to top 10.   Other than Smart, who would you see as a future top 20 player? 

I love the C's team this year, but I think the future is best gambled on one of these Nets picks coming through and a blockbuster trade that gets a superstar here.  Of course getting a superstar in free agency would be great, but seems so doubtful to me (at least not until/unless we have another star).

Developing our own talent is nice, but I think we are just ripening our fruit to bring it to market.

Re: Developing our own talent
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2016, 08:31:46 PM »

Offline Granath

  • NCE
  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2154
  • Tommy Points: 567
The experience of the Bulls over the last few years is scary.  Only a blink of an eye ago, they were on the verge of being a true contender.   They had a league MVP (Rose) and a terrific energy player (Noah) along with growing complementary players.  With the emergence of Jimmy Butler, this is a team that could have had home-grown talent producing 2 big-time stars and a very strong 3rd wheel.   In addition, they go out and get Pau Gasol to add to a good supporting cast (Gibson, Hinrich, McDermott, Mirotic).  A team predominently built from the draft (own picks and draft night trades).   

I may be missing the boat on my Bulls assessment, but they seem to have peaked without really getting close.  Rose may never return to form and Noah (now injured and expiring contract) seems to have lost a step.  Butler may be the best dollar for dollar player in the league, but he isn't Michael Jordan. Butler needs to be a #2 rather than a #1 guy

The Warriors have developed their talent, but that's largely because Curry is proving to be a true Top 5 superstar (if not #1 in the league).  The C's have no one who projects even close to top 10.   Other than Smart, who would you see as a future top 20 player? 

I love the C's team this year, but I think the future is best gambled on one of these Nets picks coming through and a blockbuster trade that gets a superstar here.  Of course getting a superstar in free agency would be great, but seems so doubtful to me (at least not until/unless we have another star).

Developing our own talent is nice, but I think we are just ripening our fruit to bring it to market.

Your last sentence is spot-on. That's exactly what Danny has been doing.

We have no idea if, who and when this team might acquire the "superstar" that pretty much any team needs to win deep in the playoffs. Once you have that superstar you build around that person. The Cs can't build around someone who isn't here yet.

If you go and get someone who is established - let's just say it was Jimmy Butler - you have to surround that player with teammates who can win now. So you might trade for older, established players in order to create that win-now supporting cast. This is exactly what Danny did with the Big Three.

If it's a guy out of college, you surround that player with younger pieces who have high character. You're not going to win now, so you lay the groundwork to win when that player can carry the team. You grow that team together. 

So they're developing complimentary players and pieces who are easily tradable and wanted by other GMs. That's why there's no one here with a big, long term contract. Everyone is disposable. Guys like IT, Crowder, Smart, Olynyk and Bradley can all be traded overnight for other pieces who may better fit around that superstar.   

Now what has been masterful on Danny's part is that many of this existing group of players can really go either way. If they get a draftee, we have the young guys to grow up with because no one is over 27. If we get an established star, the guys have enough experience to contribute now. So if you nab Cousins, we may be looking for more of a pass-first PG. But guys like Olynyk, Crowder and Bradley may very well work around him. If you get Simmons out of college, guys like Smart, RJ, Crowder, Amir and IT may fit in with him quite well to help him learn the pro game.


----

As far as the Bulls go, I'm think they're a really bad example. The Bulls were a contender with a healthy Rose. But he went down, has played 146 games in 4 1/2 years and has never returned to form. There's simply no way to anticipate or prepare for something like that. It happens and when it does it's pretty much game over. Penny Hardaway. Grant Hill. Bill Walton. Brandon Roy. Len Bias. There's no insurance policy you can take out to mitigate it, no moves you can make to avoid it. It's just horrible luck when it happens but it's entirely unpreventable and not worth worrying about. Hence I don't see the Bulls as any kind of comparison because what happened to them is nothing anyone could have foreseen.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 08:39:58 PM by Granath »
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Developing our own talent
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2016, 08:38:47 PM »

Offline Yenohb

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 345
  • Tommy Points: 73
Check this out. Amazing steal and slam by Rozier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgyBXzxeLJ0

2:23 mark of the 3rd Quarter..