How can anyone think Marcus Smart is a good NBA basketball player?

[crimson_stallion]

Under many circumstances I might agree, but he doesn't always shoot that bad, and when he shuts down an all star (Harden says hello) he's kinda worth it.

What I would say is all the folks that criticized  Rondo for not being able to shoot....pretty soon they have to make a choice between going after Smart or boarding the hypocrite train.

Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs.

The train is derailed. Nice try.

In 9 seasons with the Celtics Rondo shot 49% or better only 3 times, shot above 30% from three only once, and never once shot 65% or better from the line.

To say "Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs" is just plain wrong.

Don't mean to be rude, but you really should check the numbers before you decide to use those numbers as a justification for telling other people they are wrong.

 

Oh you weren't being rude. Just stupid.

He shot 49 percent his second year. 51 percent his third. 51 percent his fourth. 48 percent his fifth. 45 percent his 6th. 48 percent his 7th. This was pre-injury and most of his years.

See I would try to be polite, but now that you decided to resort to name calling I'm just going to call it how it is.
 
1) You said he shot close to 50% from the field "most" of his seasons with Boston.
2) He played 9 seasons with Boston
3) He shot 48% or better four times
4) Four seasons out of nine is less than half of his total seasons, and hence is not "most"
5) If you are going to consider 45% from the field to be "close to" 50% then I have to say, you're a special kind of special

I'm happy to consider 48% or better as "close to 50%".  Any lower than that and you're really pushing it.  So on that basis lets see how it really went down:

2006-07: 41.8%
2007-08: 49.2% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2008-09: 50.5% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2009-10: 50.8% (this classified as 50% or close)
2010-11: 47.5%
2011-12: 44.8%
2012-13: 48.4% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2013-14: 40.3%
2014-15: 40.5%

Shot 50% or close for most of his career?  I think not.  The only way you could make that claim is if you consider his 47.5% FG in 2010-11 as being 'close to 50%' which I do not.  There's a pretty distinct difference between 47.5% and 50%. 

[KeepRondo]

Under many circumstances I might agree, but he doesn't always shoot that bad, and when he shuts down an all star (Harden says hello) he's kinda worth it.

What I would say is all the folks that criticized  Rondo for not being able to shoot....pretty soon they have to make a choice between going after Smart or boarding the hypocrite train.

Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs.

The train is derailed. Nice try.

In 9 seasons with the Celtics Rondo shot 49% or better only 3 times, shot above 30% from three only once, and never once shot 65% or better from the line.

To say "Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs" is just plain wrong.

Don't mean to be rude, but you really should check the numbers before you decide to use those numbers as a justification for telling other people they are wrong.

 

Oh you weren't being rude. Just stupid.

He shot 49 percent his second year. 51 percent his third. 51 percent his fourth. 48 percent his fifth. 45 percent his 6th. 48 percent his 7th. This was pre-injury and most of his years.

See I would try to be polite, but now that you decided to resort to name calling I'm just going to call it how it is.
 
1) You said he shot close to 50% from the field "most" of his seasons with Boston.
2) He played 9 seasons with Boston
3) He shot 48% or better four times
4) Four seasons out of nine is less than half of his total seasons, and hence is not "most"
5) If you are going to consider 45% from the field to be "close to" 50% then I have to say, you're a special kind of special

weak dude.

Look at the numbers again. 5 out of the 9 seasons he shot 50 percent or close to it. Yes 48 percent is close to 50. The last two years, when he shot poorly, he played a total of around 50 games. Just barely half a season.

Your attempts at correcting are pathetic.

He's also a career 47 percent shooter. Maybe you think that's closer to 40 percent then 50. 

[walker834]

I wonder what the OP thought of AB his first few years in the league. Or Crowder.  Or Isaiah.  Or anyone on our team really.

David Lee was awesome though right? He's a keeper because he got it done playing 30 minutes right away.

I'd rather be patient than a guy who max's out right away.

DAvid Lee is a classic example of a stat stuffer who doesn't play a lick of defense.

[KeepRondo]

Under many circumstances I might agree, but he doesn't always shoot that bad, and when he shuts down an all star (Harden says hello) he's kinda worth it.

What I would say is all the folks that criticized  Rondo for not being able to shoot....pretty soon they have to make a choice between going after Smart or boarding the hypocrite train.

Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs.

The train is derailed. Nice try.

In 9 seasons with the Celtics Rondo shot 49% or better only 3 times, shot above 30% from three only once, and never once shot 65% or better from the line.

To say "Rondo shot 50 percent or close to it for most of the years with the Cs" is just plain wrong.

Don't mean to be rude, but you really should check the numbers before you decide to use those numbers as a justification for telling other people they are wrong.

 

Oh you weren't being rude. Just stupid.

He shot 49 percent his second year. 51 percent his third. 51 percent his fourth. 48 percent his fifth. 45 percent his 6th. 48 percent his 7th. This was pre-injury and most of his years.

See I would try to be polite, but now that you decided to resort to name calling I'm just going to call it how it is.
 
1) You said he shot close to 50% from the field "most" of his seasons with Boston.
2) He played 9 seasons with Boston
3) He shot 48% or better four times
4) Four seasons out of nine is less than half of his total seasons, and hence is not "most"
5) If you are going to consider 45% from the field to be "close to" 50% then I have to say, you're a special kind of special

I'm happy to consider 48% or better as "close to 50%".  Any lower than that and you're really pushing it.  So on that basis lets see how it really went down:

2006-07: 41.8%
2007-08: 49.2% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2008-09: 50.5% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2009-10: 50.8% (this classified as 50% or close)
2010-11: 47.5%
2011-12: 44.8%
2012-13: 48.4% (this classifies as 50% or close)
2013-14: 40.3%
2014-15: 40.5%

Shot 50% or close for most of his career?  I think not.  The only way you could make that claim is if you consider his 47.5% FG in 2010-11 as being 'close to 50%' which I do not.  There's a pretty distinct difference between 47.5% and 50%.

Dude just stop. He's a career 47 percent shooter. Smart is shooting 31 percent this year. You are only making yourself look worse.

[Snakehead]

50 years and you forgot defense is part of basketball?

[walker834]

He's old and senile don't worry about it. 

[crimson_stallion]

Just one more thing I want to point out to everybody here.

These are the rookie year "Real Plus Minus" stats for every player who has been drafted top 10 for the past three seasons (when Real Plus Minus first started being tracked)

2013
Anthony Bennett: -5.25
Victor Oladipo: -0.56
Otto Porter: -3.49
Cody Zeller: -2.25
Alex Len: -3.25
Ben McLemore: -5.49
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: -0.82
Trey Burke: -1.23
CJ McCollum: -0.93


2014
Nerlens Noel: -1.5 (listed him here, as he did not play in 2013/14)
Andrew Wiggins: -1.66
Jabari Parker: -4.34
Joel Embiid:  DNP, no stats
Aaron Gordon: -2.52
Dante Exum: -1.77
Marcus Smart: +2.22
Nik Stauskas: -4.33
Noah Vonleh: -2.81
Elfrid Payton: +2.10


2015
Julius Randle: -3.15 (listed here, as he only played one game in 2014/15)
Karl Anthony Towns: +0.35
D'Angelo Russell: -2.70
Jahlil Okafor: -5.85
Kristaps Porzingis: +1.95
Mario Hezonja: -3.78
Willie Cauley Stein: +0.68
Emmanuel Mudiay:  -5.98
Stanley Johnson: -3.60
Frank Kaminsky: -0.92
Justise Winslow: -3.47


I have highlighted in bold all of the players who actually made their team better, as rookies, while they were on the court.  As you can see, it's a very short list.

[walker834]

I have been saying this and made a post about it in the draft section. The college game is terrible right now at developing players. These players are coming into the league and aren't nba ready. Marcus is far from the only one.  He is a defensive minded player which only amplifies his offensive woes.   If you watched him in college you would know this and know it was going to take time. The college game and what he was playing was so different than the pros.

[walker834]

Marcus has been one of the better players in the last 3 drafts taken near the top based on potential because of his defense. Drafts are a total crap shoot right now and Ainge took the right player.

THe OP is just barking. He has no bite.  He's like that old dog at the end of the street barking at nothing.

[PhoSita]

I have highlighted in bold all of the players who actually made their team better, as rookies, while they were on the court.  As you can see, it's a very short list.

Indeed.  Very few players come into the league and immediately help their team win games.  Smart has done that, and it's impressive.

At the same time, based on where he was drafted (which to be fair, is not Smart's fault), the hope from the beginning for Smart has been that he can become not just a role player who helps the team win, but a player who is actually one of the main guys on a good team.  You can have all of the positive intangible qualities in the world, but if you're a zero on the offensive end, you can't be that kind of contributor.

I'm thinking now that the best case for scenario for Smart is that he ends up on a team with multiple elite scoring options and great spacing, and he develops enough on offense that he can be an intangibles All-Star while scoring (on open looks and getting passes from teammates) something like 10-12 points a game with average efficiency. 

Sort of like what Draymond Green was for the Warriors last year, before taking a major leap this year.

He might just be a smaller Iman Shumpert kind of player.  Shump is a pretty useful player, though, so that's not so bad.

[SHAQATTACK]

Does not compute

How can anyone think he is not ?   Is the better question.

[crimson_stallion]

Look at the numbers again. 5 out of the 9 seasons he shot 50 percent or close to it.

No, he didn't.

Yes 48 percent is close to 50.

I agree - and he only shot 48% or better four times in nines years.  In case you are completely incompetent at basic mathematics principles, four out of nine is not the majority.

The last two years, when he shot poorly, he played a total of around 50 games. Just barely half a season.

In those two seasons (12/13 and 13/14) his scoring, assists, rebounds, steals and turnovers were all right up around his typical numbers, so you can't just cherry pick his FG% as the one thing to ignore from those seasons just because he played less games.   

He's also a career 47 percent shooter. Maybe you think that's closer to 40 percent then 50. 

Just because it's closer to 50% than 40% that doesn't mean it's close to 50%...it's not.

47% is 47%.  It's not 50%. 

Dude just stop. He's a career 47 percent shooter. Smart is shooting 31 percent this year. You are only making yourself look worse.

When did I say that Smart is a better FG% shooter than Rondo?  Did I say that at any point here? 

Let me help you - no, I did not.

All I said is that the the claim you made in your former post (which was in reply to somebody else) about Rondo shooting '50% or close to for most of his years as a Celtic' was not accurate.

I also love the fact that you keep going back to FG%, but absolutely refuse to acknowledge the fact that Smart shot a better percentage from three in his rookie year than Rondo EVER did as a Celtic. 

Or that Rondo shot < 60% from the free throw line in three of his seasons as a Celtic.  A woeful number for a guard.  Smart hasn't been a very good free throw shooter, but he's yet to shoot below 64% for a season - something Rondo did in six of his nine seasons as a Celtic.

It would be naive to try to suggest that Rondo's major weaknesses as a three point shooter and free throw shooter didn't have a major impact on the team.  Opposing teams tailored their entire defence to those weaknesses - they would sag way off Rondo and let him shot threes all night long, which killed spacing.  They'd play "hack a Rondo" in the closing minutes of games.  Rondos inability to score at the line or from the three point line crippled us on many occasions.

At Smart is capable of hitting the open three - teams don't just sag right off him, they have to at least somewhat respect his shot.  Likewise they won't play "hack-a-Smart" because even though he's not a good free throw shooter, he's passable enough for the defence to worry that he might actually make the shots.

Not once in this thread have I stated that Marcus Smart is a good shooter, or that he is a more efficient scorer than Rondo.  I never made that comparison. 

All I said prior to this is that your claim about Rondo was incorrect.  You continue to disagree with me, yet don't actually give a legitimate reason.  For example, you agree that you consider 48% as being close to 50%, but fail to acknowledge that he only shot 48% for a season 4 times. 

[KeepRondo]

I guess you enjoy wasting your time by the looks of that last post.

The entire premise of your attack is that you don't consider 47.5 percent close to 50 percent. So much so that you try to slam me for it.

It was a fail on your part dude. Move on. 

You are just looking worse the more this goes on.

Also Rondo avg 47.3 percent shooting on Celtics for his career. It's always fun when you're told you are wrong and the person telling you that couldn't be more wrong about it.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Smart staying healthy is the entire thing---He has to, then we'll start to see how awesome he is...He just cannot get it going...very injury prone at this point.

[LarBrd33]

Just one more thing I want to point out to everybody here.

These are the rookie year "Real Plus Minus" stats for every player who has been drafted top 10 for the past three seasons (when Real Plus Minus first started being tracked)

2013
Anthony Bennett: -5.25
Victor Oladipo: -0.56
Otto Porter: -3.49
Cody Zeller: -2.25
Alex Len: -3.25
Ben McLemore: -5.49
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: -0.82
Trey Burke: -1.23
CJ McCollum: -0.93


2014
Nerlens Noel: -1.5 (listed him here, as he did not play in 2013/14)
Andrew Wiggins: -1.66
Jabari Parker: -4.34
Joel Embiid:  DNP, no stats
Aaron Gordon: -2.52
Dante Exum: -1.77
Marcus Smart: +2.22
Nik Stauskas: -4.33
Noah Vonleh: -2.81
Elfrid Payton: +2.10


2015
Julius Randle: -3.15 (listed here, as he only played one game in 2014/15)
Karl Anthony Towns: +0.35
D'Angelo Russell: -2.70
Jahlil Okafor: -5.85
Kristaps Porzingis: +1.95
Mario Hezonja: -3.78
Willie Cauley Stein: +0.68
Emmanuel Mudiay:  -5.98
Stanley Johnson: -3.60
Frank Kaminsky: -0.92
Justise Winslow: -3.47


I have highlighted in bold all of the players who actually made their team better, as rookies, while they were on the court.  As you can see, it's a very short list.

It's -2.23 this season for Smart.