Ainge on Toucher and Rich: "Consolidating quantity for quality"

[Donoghus]

@ Ssspence, looks like someone screwed up their quoting at some point.

[obnoxiousmime]

Questions I would ask Ainge (even if you know he won't give clear answers):

1) Is the 2016 Brooklyn pick on the table?
2) What do you think of this year's draft class, including Simmons and Ingram? Dunn?
3) Is it possible you will use all your draft picks in this year's draft or do you have to make a trade?
4) Would you deal for a player in their late 20s/early 30s THIS season or offseason?
5) How do you feel Sullinger has been playing so far?
6) Considering how much better the East is this year, how disappointed would you be if you missed the playoffs? Are the playoffs a priority?
7) Do you anticipate Mickey, Rozier, or Hunter will play consistent minutes anytime this season?
Why do you think the team hasn't played so well at home?

[LarBrd33]

Zach Lowe talked about on his recent podcast how there's a whole bunch of buyers and basically no sellers.   Gonna be hard for us to get anything since nobody really wants to trade quality for quantity. 

[fairweatherfan]

I'm quoted at the beginning of this string for something I didn't say. Just noting it.

When the system starts cutting off nested replies, it keeps a link to the person being replied to in the earliest quote shown.  So you see a post made by Dons but it starts with a link to your quote that he was replying to.  I think the idea is to keep quoting from getting out of hand but providing a link to the original message.  It can be confusing though.

[Moranis]

The reasonable target is probably going to be a player who is seen as too old to keep around for a team that has decided to go through a rebuilding process.

I think that sounds right.

So who's probably on that list?

Tyson Chandler (rapid decline, yucky contract)

Omer Asik (not very good, horrid contract)

Zach Randolph (might not even be available, but could be worth pursuing)

Marcin Gortat (if the Wizz give up on the playoffs, could be available; not a terrible contract but he'll be a 3rd stringer by the end of it)

Rudy Gay (questionable if the Kings would really consider moving him, and not sure a guy who passes so little would make sense on the C's)

Kevin Martin (could help the team with shooting, but how much of an upgrade would he be over Turner / Bradley / Smart?)

Nikola Pekovic (who knows if he can still stay healthy and play at a high level?  also seems like a duplicate of David Lee's skillset without the passing)

Danilo Gallinari (my guess is the Nuggets would ask for a ransom for him; they've never seemed willing to all-out tank and he's their best player)

Lou Williams (do you want two undersized gunners in the rotation?  Would take time away from Smart and definitively block Rozier for a while)

Roy Hibbert (he's not helping the Celts on offense, where they struggle)

Chris Kaman (can he still play?  Would he really help the Celts?  Maybe as a bench scorer)

Trevor Ariza (might be available if Rockets are willing to punt this disappointing season, is trending toward washed up but would still help the Celts)

Mozgov reportedly available (or at least teams are inquiring heavily).

[PhoSita]

Smart likely has the highest perceived trade value of our rookie scale deals. I wonder if Ainge will essentially need to include him in a package to get another team to bite on trading a vet whose actually worth anything.

I really, really doubt Ainge would include Smart in a package for a vet unless that "vet" is an All-Star caliber talent.  Maybe that's wildly overvaluing Smart, but based on what Ainge has done in the past, that's what I would expect.

[Moranis]

Those guys are upgrades though.  Isn't that point?  To upgrade.

And I certainly could see OKC going all in and moving Adams.  Adams, Waiters, McGary, Novak for Amir, Evan, Bos 1st, Dal 1st.  Something like that, seems to make sense for both teams.

By "those guys" I'm guessing you mean Harris and Vooch?  Yes, the point is to upgrade, but only if doing so doesn't compromise your ability to make further upgrades that will actually get the team where you want to be.  I like Harris and Vooch fine, but I'm not sure either of them would really move the needle very much.  Maybe Harris could work as the starting power forward.  But if you have to give up one of Isaiah, Bradley, Smart, Crowder, or Olynyk, how much does it really push you forward?

As for the OKC thing, I'm getting the sense you value Steven Adams a lot more than I do.  Giving up two 1st rounders to acquire him, McGary, and Waiters (a pending RFA) ... I don't think I'd be very pleased with that.

Not to mention that Amir Johnson and Evan Turner isn't much of an upgrade, if at all, over Adams and Waiters.

what are you going to do with the first round picks though.  They are late 1st rounders.  If Boston keeps them I expect at least one, if not both, to be used on Europeans.

[PhoSita]

The reasonable target is probably going to be a player who is seen as too old to keep around for a team that has decided to go through a rebuilding process.

I think that sounds right.

So who's probably on that list?

Tyson Chandler (rapid decline, yucky contract)

Omer Asik (not very good, horrid contract)

Zach Randolph (might not even be available, but could be worth pursuing)

Marcin Gortat (if the Wizz give up on the playoffs, could be available; not a terrible contract but he'll be a 3rd stringer by the end of it)

Rudy Gay (questionable if the Kings would really consider moving him, and not sure a guy who passes so little would make sense on the C's)

Kevin Martin (could help the team with shooting, but how much of an upgrade would he be over Turner / Bradley / Smart?)

Nikola Pekovic (who knows if he can still stay healthy and play at a high level?  also seems like a duplicate of David Lee's skillset without the passing)

Danilo Gallinari (my guess is the Nuggets would ask for a ransom for him; they've never seemed willing to all-out tank and he's their best player)

Lou Williams (do you want two undersized gunners in the rotation?  Would take time away from Smart and definitively block Rozier for a while)

Roy Hibbert (he's not helping the Celts on offense, where they struggle)

Chris Kaman (can he still play?  Would he really help the Celts?  Maybe as a bench scorer)

Trevor Ariza (might be available if Rockets are willing to punt this disappointing season, is trending toward washed up but would still help the Celts)

Mozgov reportedly available (or at least teams are inquiring heavily).

Moz was important for the Cavs last year and he's just on an expiring deal, but would he really be that useful to the Celts?  Players with little offensive skill can look good next to LeBron, not so much on teams without a star drawing all the defensive attention.

[PhoSita]

what are you going to do with the first round picks though.  They are late 1st rounders.  If Boston keeps them I expect at least one, if not both, to be used on Europeans.

I think Ainge is happy to hold onto those first rounders until draft day and try to use them to move up for a guy he likes.

If / when it doesn't work (as last year), he'll just use the picks and then figure out the mess later.

As much as consolidating makes sense, Ainge won't make trades just for the sake of consolidation.

[walker834]

I think if ainge can make a deal for a player that can help us with the playoff push and not sacrifice the future either he'd do it. Particularly if he can get someone who can help us longterm as well.  This has always been his MO.  Finding that right fit is not easy.  I don't think he's going to waste our picks regardless. Drafting Euro's is all well and good in theory but honestly Ainge is not going to do that either if he can make something better happen.

Ainge is always looking for the best possible move period. One that won't hinder development etc.  As it stands we have a ton of draft picks and as it stands that's the best possible situation but I don't think it's going to continue to be.

Those picks are going to need to turn into something.

[slamtheking]

what are you going to do with the first round picks though.  They are late 1st rounders.  If Boston keeps them I expect at least one, if not both, to be used on Europeans.

I think Ainge is happy to hold onto those first rounders until draft day and try to use them to move up for a guy he likes.

If / when it doesn't work (as last year), he'll just use the picks and then figure out the mess later.

As much as consolidating makes sense, Ainge won't make trades just for the sake of consolidation.

exactly. 
Ainge will deal to move up if he deems it necessary (and possible) to get a player he likes that he doesn't think will be available when he gets to pick.

Assuming no action at the trade deadline:
- Turner and Lee come off the books.  Can't see them being resigned - especially Lee.
- Amir and Jonas have non-guaranteed deals for next year.  Good trade bait or if needed, can be let go to free up spots.  Could see Jonas being released.  Amir too based on that high contract.
- Sully and Zeller are RFAs.  Potential tradebait or just not tendered a contract.  I don't think either will go untendered since that would be discharging an asset for nothing.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Danny sold off 2-3 second rounders if he can't trade them or if there's no one overseas that looks appealing as a draft-and-stash option.

[walker834]

I disagree somewhat.  I usually think Ainge means what he says but he is being a bit coy here.  He's absolutely right quantity for quality and that's what they are looking for. But this upcoming draft is really important for us.  This is the time to make our moves that will make us a contender.

He's been knocking on the door with various moves but this draft something is going to happen.

The last few has been a lot of noise from fans and I think you are wrong again.  it's weird that way.  The last few drafts had us making a splash and all this stuff. Now fans are sitting back.  This is where it happens.

[wdleehi]

Anyone else think of this part.


As of right now, the Net's pick represents quality, the rest represent quantity.



The draft is important for the top pick in terms of drafted players.  The rest of the picks are important more in terms of packaging trades. 



I do not think the Celtics have to make a move by the deadline.  They would like to make a move, but is there any actually quality available reasonably better then their current quantity?


I think the most expected move might be a Lee for another vet on the last year of their contract the Celtics think would help this years push without sacrificing the future trade pieces. 

[Moranis]

what are you going to do with the first round picks though.  They are late 1st rounders.  If Boston keeps them I expect at least one, if not both, to be used on Europeans.

I think Ainge is happy to hold onto those first rounders until draft day and try to use them to move up for a guy he likes.

If / when it doesn't work (as last year), he'll just use the picks and then figure out the mess later.

As much as consolidating makes sense, Ainge won't make trades just for the sake of consolidation.

I see Adams as a clear upgrade on Zeller and a guy that you can just pencil in down low.  He isn't going to be a "star" or anything like that, but he is the exact type of person I would be looking at acquiring for guys that have no long term future on the team and the mid to late 1st round picks. 

[PhoSita]

what are you going to do with the first round picks though.  They are late 1st rounders.  If Boston keeps them I expect at least one, if not both, to be used on Europeans.

I think Ainge is happy to hold onto those first rounders until draft day and try to use them to move up for a guy he likes.

If / when it doesn't work (as last year), he'll just use the picks and then figure out the mess later.

As much as consolidating makes sense, Ainge won't make trades just for the sake of consolidation.

I see Adams as a clear upgrade on Zeller and a guy that you can just pencil in down low.  He isn't going to be a "star" or anything like that, but he is the exact type of person I would be looking at acquiring for guys that have no long term future on the team and the mid to late 1st round picks.

Adams is a fine player.  I wouldn't mind having him, but at the same time I'm not sure he'd really help the Celts where they are weakest, given his lack of skill offensively.  Plus, like I said above, I'm not sure the Thunder would really view anybody the Celts can offer at center as a clear upgrade.

So unless you want to trade Jae Crowder to get Steven Adams (I certainly don't), I doubt there's a trade there.