Happy trails to Hinkie's Power.

[LarBrd33]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/sixers/2015/12/07/jerry-colangelo-hire-change-rebuilding-plan-sam-hinkie-76ers/76954620/

Apparently, Silver was a driving force behind this. Looks like the league seems to have had enough of this ridiculousness.

My favorite parts, especially those in bold...

"This season has not been easy for us and even more difficult than we anticipated," Harris said. "Our situation needed a review to make our situation better."

While Harris said he believes in the plan — to build sustainable success — it’s an admission the plan isn’t going the way the 76ers had hoped and change is necessary.

The 76ers were 19-63 in 2013-14, 18-64 in 2014-15 and 1-20 this season going into Monday's game against the San Antonio Spurs, and those draft picks haven’t generated the player Philadelphia believes is a game-changer.

So....does this mean they are going to stop tanking for the rest of this season?

Lol. 

Here's what it means... it means that Philly can placate their fans, critics and naysayers by saying, "Ok guise, new plan... we have Colangelo here now... we're done with this tanking thing... now we're all about winning!  We want to build a winning culture!... as soon as this season is over".  The league can save face by suggesting that big changes are coming now that Colangelo is involved and this blatant tanking nightmare is finally over...

So then this offseason, instead of avoiding signing a single veteran free agent, they'll open up their pockets and bring in some vets who can help them win.   Instead of marching out two centers who clearly can't play together, they'll trade one for an equal player at a different position.  They'll fill roles, probably fire their sitting duck coach, cut the d-leaguers and make a move towards being competitive... 

... but not until they take a crack at landing Ben Simmons.

All of which they undoubtedly were going to do anyways... but now they can suggest their change of direction is a necessary reaction spearheaded by a quality basketball guy in Colangelo... and not something they were planning on all along. 

[KG Living Legend]

 The NBA has vested financial interests in Skal, Ingram and Ben Simmons. My prediction is none if those three go to Philly if any Ingram.

 They definitely won't send Simmons or Skal to Philly. Won't Happen. By They, of course I mean, the all knowing, all powerful, basketball gods.

 BTW that was smart to Hire Jerry. He has already been accepted as a basketball God. He's a Legend.

[Emmette Bryant]

http://deadspin.com/76ers-hire-jerry-colangelo-whats-it-mean-for-the-proce-1746737379

[Vox_Populi]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14317233/nba-owners-lobbied-league-office-philadelphia-76ers-changes

Since the summer of 2014, NBA owners have been lobbying the league's front office to step in with regard to the direction of the Philadelphia 76ers, sources told ESPN.com on Monday night. It was that effort that helped lead to the hiring of Jerry Colangelo to a senior position earlier Monday, the sources said.

Despite Colangelo's affirming Hinkie will retain final say on personnel matters and Harris' saying this move was not a deviation from their plan, those who know Colangelo believe he will have major influence on significant decisions going forward.

[jpotter33]

I think Ainge would give up a fair amount for Okafor. MAYBE even the Brooklyn pick of there wasn't much else involved.


LarBird, I have to give you credit for being willing to die on the sword. You've defended Hinkie and the Sixers "plan" and have been trumpeting the immense value of their prospects for years, and even as it's coming to a crashing, poetic end that involves the league stepping in and handing them a competent GM to save face, your willing to defend the hidden brilliance of Hinkie's plan. Your a man who sticks to his convictions brotha, and I can respect that.

Wait... is it coming to an end?  Did I miss something?  Is the league stripping them away of their #1 projected pick, their potential top 4 pick from the Lakers, Dario Saric's rights, Nerlens Noel, Okafor, Embiid and the several other 1st rounders/assets they have?  Are they forbidden from using their 60 million in cap space this summer?

I'm happy to be the lone voice of reason in regards to Philly.  I'm not wrong.  That team is stacked with assets.   It wouldnt' be hard to turn it into a competent team.  You people can call me delusional all you want.  It doesn't make me any less right. 

And no, I don't buy the idea that the rest of the league would lose interest in two of the best prospects in the NBA simply because they spent 12-24 months wearing Philly jerseys.   Noel and Okafor are big time prospects.  Our best asset is Marcus Smart.  One of those Philly assets clearly more valuable than Smart... the other arguably is more valuable as well.  Is what it is.    And their best pick is more valuable than our Brooklyn pick.   Plus they have a handful of other young assets that hold value in the league.  To suggest that this is "over" is to admit not understanding the situation.

"Delusional"

"adjective
1.
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:
Senators who think they will get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.
2.
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts,:
He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him."

I mean, many would argue by definition that you are being delusional in this Philly issue, let alone the grand flaws in your inconsistent logical reasoning of alternating between pessimistic and optimistic perspectives depending upon the team you're discussing. And, by the way, the reason you catch so much flak on here is due to quotes like this: "lone voice of reason," "I'm not wrong," "It doesn't make me any less right." It gets pretty annoying seeing that kind of rhetoric over and over again, especially from a poster who has done nothing but eat crow over the whole Embiid situation since he was drafted.

[LarBrd33]

http://deadspin.com/76ers-hire-jerry-colangelo-whats-it-mean-for-the-proce-1746737379

Lol that article just summed up my reaction:

A Hinkie stan could—and Hinkie stans definitely will—argue that this is nothing but a cosmetic move, meant to improve the public face of an organization that has, because of a cynical, protracted tanking campaign, run afoul of GMs and agents across the league. (As it turns out, agents don’t really like teams that waive guys without a word of warning and have no interest in spending money on real NBA talent.) The thinking here is that Colangelo is just there to talk nice to the rest of the league while Hinkie continues to perform his dark magicks in the shadows.

I think that's exactly what just happened.  It's a PR move.  "ok guys, our bad... no more tanking!"... then they finish 2-80 and try their best to get Ben Simmons.  I mean what, if anything, could they even do this year beyond trading their own pick ... and what could they get for that pick?  If the NBA is forcing Philly to trade away their pick, I'll take that as bad news for Boston's hope of trading the Brooklyn pick.  Lol. 

I guess, in theory, they could do all of the following immediately.

#1 - Trade away their own pick to the highest bidder
#2 - Trade away Joel Embiid to the highest bidder (and I suspect they'd still get offers)
#3 - Trade away the rights to Dario Saric to the highest bidder
#4 - Trade away one of Okafor and Noel

That would be a heck of a show... don't see it happening, though.   And even if they did all of that, it's not like they can sign any free agents at this point.  What are they gonna do, bring in Carlos Boozer or something?  Sign Greg Oden away from China?   They'll make changes this summer when they can make changes.  But I think that's always been the plan for them.

[MBunge]

they can suggest their change of direction is a necessary reaction spearheaded by a quality basketball guy in Colangelo... and not something they were planning on all along.

How does that not make sense?  Let me count the ways.

1.  It's contrary to all existing evidence.  Literally every piece of information points to this being a very recent and hasty decision by Philly, not the result of some long and thought out plan.

2.  Why would Hinkie want to give anyone else credit for the ludicrously miraculous turnaround you're projecting? 

3.  Why would Colangelo put his name and reputation on the line in a situation where, according to your fantasy, he's actually got little to no input or power?

4.  If this is part of the plan, why bring Colangelo in now and associate him with the dozens and dozens of losses the Sixers are going to chalk up over the rest of the season?

5.  Wouldn't it have made far more sense to simply stock a few more legitimate young prospects on the roster and avoid all this in the first place?  Your binkie Biyombo was available this offseason.  What about Anthony Bennett?  Surely it wasn't absolutely necessary for Hinkie to poison his relationship with practically the entire agent community?  I'm not sure there's a GM who's been colder or more bottom line than Ainge, but he's seemingly been able to cultivate a good reputation by and large, Antoine Walker aside.

Mike

[BDeCosta26]

I think Ainge would give up a fair amount for Okafor. MAYBE even the Brooklyn pick of there wasn't much else involved.


LarBird, I have to give you credit for being willing to die on the sword. You've defended Hinkie and the Sixers "plan" and have been trumpeting the immense value of their prospects for years, and even as it's coming to a crashing, poetic end that involves the league stepping in and handing them a competent GM to save face, your willing to defend the hidden brilliance of Hinkie's plan. Your a man who sticks to his convictions brotha, and I can respect that.

Wait... is it coming to an end?  Did I miss something?  Is the league stripping them away of their #1 projected pick, their potential top 4 pick from the Lakers, Dario Saric's rights, Nerlens Noel, Okafor, Embiid and the several other 1st rounders/assets they have?  Are they forbidden from using their 60 million in cap space this summer?

I'm happy to be the lone voice of reason in regards to Philly.  I'm not wrong.  That team is stacked with assets.   It wouldnt' be hard to turn it into a competent team.  You people can call me delusional all you want.  It doesn't make me any less right. 

And no, I don't buy the idea that the rest of the league would lose interest in two of the best prospects in the NBA simply because they spent 12-24 months wearing Philly jerseys.   Noel and Okafor are big time prospects.  Our best asset is Marcus Smart.  One of those Philly assets clearly more valuable than Smart... the other arguably is more valuable as well.  Is what it is.    And their best pick is more valuable than our Brooklyn pick.   Plus they have a handful of other young assets that hold value in the league.  To suggest that this is "over" is to admit not understanding the situation.

Well obviously the careers of the prospects and how they effect the Philly franchise aren't over. And I never said their prospects and assets weren't good. A good GM could certainly turn that pile of assets into a competent team.

But Hinkie's master "plan" of trading away any good players that aren't stars because they could help them win to many games, signing D-League level prospects to fill out an entire roster next to their high draft picks and hardly spending enough money to hot the salary floor in an effort to be as bad as possible for multiple years in a row has really failed to bear any of it's magic fruit (I.E. A LeBron James or Anthony Davis level player). Embiid may never play a great stretch of NBA minutes at this point. Okafor is talented but flawed, certainly not a Davis level prospect and CLEARLY has zero Interest in being the man in that city. He's miserable there. Saric still hasn't come because he doesn't want to play for less money than he would make Europe on that joke of a team. Noel is a pretty good player, maybe even a stud defensively but he's a pretty poor offensive player who's losing value playing next to Okafor. None of that team fits together. They have no culture, no collective mindset. Why would they when the team they play for is purposely surrounding you with minor league talent in an effort to lose as many games as possible.

TJ McConnell is playing PG on that team and they didn't make a play for any half decent free agent or parlay any of their future assets into a young guard they can help build around. They traded away the reigning ROY PG for a future pick (it may be a good one, but understates the problem with what's going on there). Hinkie has made some nice trades (even though he screwed over NO in the Holiday deal) and has collected a few good assets, sure. But they've failed miserably at every other aspect of building a team, and have gone about this tank job so blatantly and persistently that it was making Philly basketball an absolute joke. No star would sign off on a trade there under Hinkie, and no FA would sign there while they kept up the tankathon. Colangalo may turn that team into a contender with Hinkie's assets, but the fact that Silver had to step in and put him in a position to do so shows Hinkie's plan is failing.

[saltlover]

It's not good when the league has no respect for you.  Accumulating assets isn't effective if no one returns your calls.  Nor is cap space for free agents.  Colangelo's mission is to be the primary contact for other GMs and agents.  Maybe some of the plan will still be Hinkie's, but he's not going to execute it quite as much.

[KeepRondo]

Sorry if this was asked but couldn't the owners vote to force the Sixers owner to sell his team? Could maybe all of this be a consequence from the other owners putting some pressure on the Sixers to knock off the silliness?

[Eddie20]

I think Ainge would give up a fair amount for Okafor. MAYBE even the Brooklyn pick of there wasn't much else involved.


LarBird, I have to give you credit for being willing to die on the sword. You've defended Hinkie and the Sixers "plan" and have been trumpeting the immense value of their prospects for years, and even as it's coming to a crashing, poetic end that involves the league stepping in and handing them a competent GM to save face, your willing to defend the hidden brilliance of Hinkie's plan. Your a man who sticks to his convictions brotha, and I can respect that.

Wait... is it coming to an end?  Did I miss something?  Is the league stripping them away of their #1 projected pick, their potential top 4 pick from the Lakers, Dario Saric's rights, Nerlens Noel, Okafor, Embiid and the several other 1st rounders/assets they have?  Are they forbidden from using their 60 million in cap space this summer?

I'm happy to be the lone voice of reason in regards to Philly.  I'm not wrong.  That team is stacked with assets.   It wouldnt' be hard to turn it into a competent team.  You people can call me delusional all you want.  It doesn't make me any less right. 

And no, I don't buy the idea that the rest of the league would lose interest in two of the best prospects in the NBA simply because they spent 12-24 months wearing Philly jerseys.   Noel and Okafor are big time prospects.  Our best asset is Marcus Smart.  One of those Philly assets clearly more valuable than Smart... the other arguably is more valuable as well.  Is what it is.    And their best pick is more valuable than our Brooklyn pick.   Plus they have a handful of other young assets that hold value in the league.  To suggest that this is "over" is to admit not understanding the situation.

"Delusional"

"adjective
1.
having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions:
Senators who think they will get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.
2.
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts,:
He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him."

I mean, many would argue by definition that you are being delusional in this Philly issue, let alone the grand flaws in your inconsistent logical reasoning of alternating between pessimistic and optimistic perspectives depending upon the team you're discussing. And, by the way, the reason you catch so much flak on here is due to quotes like this: "lone voice of reason," "I'm not wrong," "It doesn't make me any less right." It gets pretty annoying seeing that kind of rhetoric over and over again, especially from a poster who has done nothing but eat crow over the whole Embiid situation since he was drafted.

All he does is make asinine predictions and then fall flat on his face. It's literally rinse and repeat with him. I don't think someone could be more frequently wrong if they tried. He doesn't learn his lesson either. In fact, he somehow seems to gain confidence with each incorrect statement.

Now it's "Hinkie's plan didn't fail". I wonder if Hinkie himself feels the same way. I wonder if Hinkie wishes he had gone a different route. Hinkie played a dangerous game, alienating the league in the process, and failed. As a result he's been castrated of his decision making and will never hold the same position for any team again. His fate is sealed. Trust the process turned into a trainwreck.

[crimson_stallion]

Wait... is it coming to an end?  Did I miss something?  Is the league stripping them away of their #1 projected pick

How come when it's Philly you refer to it as "their #1 projected pick", but when it's a reference to Boston's Brooklyn pick you refer to it as "statistically the 3rd worst team is most likely to deliver the 5th pick". 

In fact did you know that in the past 10 years, the team with the worst record has only gotten the #1 pick one time?

2005: Buck (6th worst record)
2006: Raptors (5th worst record)
2007: Blazers (7th worst record)
2008: Bulls (9th worst record)
2009: Clippers (3rd worst record)
2010: Wizards (5th worst record)
2011: Clippers (8th worst record)
2012: Hornets (4th worst record)
2013: Cavs (3rd worst record)
2014: Cavs (9th worst record)
2015: Timberwolves (worst record)

That one time was actually this year, so that only makes the odds look even WORSE for the Sixers. 

There is very, very slim chance that they get the #1 pick, if history has anything to say about it.

In fact if the past 10 years are anything to go off, then the Celtics (currently with the 3rd worst record, via the Nets) are more likely to get #1 than either the Sixers or the Lakers.

their potential top 4 pick from the Lakers,

The Lakers have the 2nd worst record in the league right now, and it's by a reasonably comfortable margin, so lets assume the Lakers finish 2nd last, as projected.

Their pick is top 3 protected, so Lakers would need to finish in 4th place or worse in order for Philly to get the pick.  For that to happen, two teams outside of the bottom 3 would need to sneak into top 3 spots.

In the past 10 years, that has happened four times - so it is possible, but not probable.

Now, do you want to take a stab at working out what are the odds of the Sixers getting the #1 pick and also getting the Lakers pick? 

I'm not going to try to work it out, but I can assure you that it's pretty slim.  It would mean the Sixers would need to take #1 with the worst odds, and two other teams outside of the top three would need to fall into sports #2 and #3.  That's very, very, very unlikely.

It's very possible that the Sixers don't get either the #1 pick OR the Lakers pick.  In fact, that's exactly what will happen if the Lakers fall into #1.

* The worst record has one it once in the past 10 years
* The 2nd worst record has not won it at all in the past 10 years
* The 3rd worst team has won it twice in the past 10 years

If the past 10 years is anything to go off, the Celtics actually have a better shot at the #1 pick (via the Nets, with the 3rd worst odds) than the Sixers do.

Dario Saric's rights

Meaningless.  He's not played a single minute in the NBA, and we have no idea if his game will even translate to the NBA. 

How many European wing players have come over to the NBA in the past 10 years and become more than just decent starters / role players?

Nerlens Noel

Meaningless - he is statistically the worst offensive big man in the NBA, and his rebounding is merely 'solid' rather than great.  His defense is nice, but that alone is not going to do that much for him. 

To be a star in the NBA you need to excel at more than one thing - e.g. DeAndre Jordan (elite defender an rebounder). 

As it stands he'll be lucky to ever be as good as Tyson Chandler in his prime.

Okafor

Brook Lopez 2.0 - nice player, but not a franchise player by any means.

Embiid

Greg Oden 2.0 - lets see how they go with that

and the several other 1st rounders/assets they have? 

Such as?  Which do they have that are actually going to fall inside the top 15?  From what I can see the only picks they ahve that are as valuable as ours are their own one and the Lakers one (which they might not get). 

In fact our Brooklyn pick is arguably more valuable than the Lakers one right now since it is guaranteed - there is no protection.  We KNOW we're getting that pick.   

Sixers only HOPE that they are getting the Lakers one.

Are they forbidden from using their 60 million in cap space this summer?

No, they can use it - but they won't, because no free agent will have any desire to sign there. 

I'm happy to be the lone voice of reason in regards to Philly.  I'm not wrong.  That team is stacked with assets.   It wouldnt' be hard to turn it into a competent team.  You people can call me delusional all you want.  It doesn't make me any less right. 

Once again, there you go trying to pass off opinion as fact.

You're not wrong?  How can you possible know that unless you have travelled into the future and seen:

* Where the Philly pick falls
* Where the Lakers pick falls (and whether they get it)
* Whether Embiid ever becomes a good player
* Whether Saric ever becomes a good player

These are all up in the air, and those four things (which Philly has zero control over) will be almost completely responsible for determining Philly's cumulative asset value a year from now.

Our best asset is Marcus Smart.  One of those Philly assets clearly more valuable than Smart... the other arguably is more valuable as well.  Is what it is.    And their best pick is more valuable than our Brooklyn pick.   Plus they have a handful of other young assets that hold value in the league.  To suggest that this is "over" is to admit not understanding the situation.

Debatable that our best asset is Smart.

* I think Thomas is more valuable an asset than Smart. 
* The way he is playing this year, I think Bradley is a more valuable asset than Smart
* I think the Brooklyn pick is a FAR more valuable asset than Smart

Those three assets, for us, are all guaranteed.

The only guaranteed assets the Philly has are Okafor, Noel and their own pick.  It's debatable whether those three assets combined are much more valuable than our combination of Thomas, Bradley. Smart and our Nets pick.

Probably about equal, all things considered.

We also have a stack of useful players that would be appealing to other teams as filler.  Sully, Lee (expiring), etc.

We have four 1st rounders who project to fall top 15-20.
 
We also have some degree of appeal for potential free agents, which Philly does not. 

Lets be honest - the Sixers really aren't in any better a position for the future than we are, despite the 3-4 years of hopelessly tanking.

[tarheelsxxiii]

crimson, fair to say you type 1k words/minute?

[tazzmaniac]

I think Ainge would give up a fair amount for Okafor. MAYBE even the Brooklyn pick of there wasn't much else involved.


LarBird, I have to give you credit for being willing to die on the sword. You've defended Hinkie and the Sixers "plan" and have been trumpeting the immense value of their prospects for years, and even as it's coming to a crashing, poetic end that involves the league stepping in and handing them a competent GM to save face, your willing to defend the hidden brilliance of Hinkie's plan. Your a man who sticks to his convictions brotha, and I can respect that.

Wait... is it coming to an end?  Did I miss something?  Is the league stripping them away of their #1 projected pick, their potential top 4 pick from the Lakers, Dario Saric's rights, Nerlens Noel, Okafor, Embiid and the several other 1st rounders/assets they have?  Are they forbidden from using their 60 million in cap space this summer?

I'm happy to be the lone voice of reason in regards to Philly.  I'm not wrong.  That team is stacked with assets.   It wouldnt' be hard to turn it into a competent team.  You people can call me delusional all you want.  It doesn't make me any less right. 

And no, I don't buy the idea that the rest of the league would lose interest in two of the best prospects in the NBA simply because they spent 12-24 months wearing Philly jerseys.   Noel and Okafor are big time prospects.  Our best asset is Marcus Smart.  One of those Philly assets clearly more valuable than Smart... the other arguably is more valuable as well.  Is what it is.    And their best pick is more valuable than our Brooklyn pick.   Plus they have a handful of other young assets that hold value in the league.  To suggest that this is "over" is to admit not understanding the situation.

Well obviously the careers of the prospects and how they effect the Philly franchise aren't over. And I never said their prospects and assets weren't good. A good GM could certainly turn that pile of assets into a competent team.

But Hinkie's master "plan" of trading away any good players that aren't stars because they could help them win to many games, signing D-League level prospects to fill out an entire roster next to their high draft picks and hardly spending enough money to hot the salary floor in an effort to be as bad as possible for multiple years in a row has really failed to bear any of it's magic fruit (I.E. A LeBron James or Anthony Davis level player). Embiid may never play a great stretch of NBA minutes at this point. Okafor is talented but flawed, certainly not a Davis level prospect and CLEARLY has zero Interest in being the man in that city. He's miserable there. Saric still hasn't come because he doesn't want to play for less money than he would make Europe on that joke of a team. Noel is a pretty good player, maybe even a stud defensively but he's a pretty poor offensive player who's losing value playing next to Okafor. None of that team fits together. They have no culture, no collective mindset. Why would they when the team they play for is purposely surrounding you with minor league talent in an effort to lose as many games as possible.

TJ McConnell is playing PG on that team and they didn't make a play for any half decent free agent or parlay any of their future assets into a young guard they can help build around. They traded away the reigning ROY PG for a future pick (it may be a good one, but understates the problem with what's going on there). Hinkie has made some nice trades (even though he screwed over NO in the Holiday deal) and has collected a few good assets, sure. But they've failed miserably at every other aspect of building a team, and have gone about this tank job so blatantly and persistently that it was making Philly basketball an absolute joke. No star would sign off on a trade there under Hinkie, and no FA would sign there while they kept up the tankathon. Colangalo may turn that team into a contender with Hinkie's assets, but the fact that Silver had to step in and put him in a position to do so shows Hinkie's plan is failing.

Hinkie found Covington by going through a bunch of D-Leaguers last season.  This season their roster has been stable besides injuries and Hinkie hasn't brought on any D-Leaguers.  Saric tried hard to come over this season but the buyout was too large.  Now both he and his father say he's coming over next season.  MCW is coming off the bench now for the Bucks because his poor shooting was screwing up their staring lineup.  The Bucks fans would love to rescind that trade and have Knight back. 

Stars will go where they are traded.  Very few have no trade contracts.  Besides stars are rarely ever traded.  If one happens to go on the market, the Sixers have plenty of trade assets because of the moves Hinkie has made.  If Silver actually did step in, it was because of all the negative media and financial reasons not because the Hinkie's plan is failing.   
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25401310/report-dario-sarics-father-says-his-son-will-play-for-sixers-next-season

[KG Living Legend]

 This thread is awesome. Beers on me all the way around.