Most improved teams (win/loss record) in the NBA next season?

[Celtics18]

The MCW trade was evidence that Hinkie will always make trades where he gets a better asset for a worse one, not that he plans on trading away players if they get too good.

That Hinkie would deal a high upside prospect just because he was causing too many wins is probably inaccurate. However, if a rotation player without a high upside started playing well I would expect him to be dealt.

The current makeup of the team (high draft picks and boarder line nba players) indicates that Hinkie would deal a player for being too good if that player didn't have star potential. Isn't the idea that the Sixers are going to be bad and stay in the lottery to maximize their chances at a star with a high pick the entire strategy behind what Philly is doing? If a player without star potential plays well in Philly I think it is obvious he will be dealt.

Yeah, but all mediocre or bad teams should do that.  There is no point in keeping or paying role players, if you don't have your championship foundation in place.  That is why, for example, I saw no reason to keep Bradley for the Celtics.  He is a nice quality bench/spot starter on a good team, but serves no real purpose for Boston (except as a potential asset).

Doesn't a championship foundation require a top ten player?

That means at least twenty teams in the league should be getting rid of all their role players.

Where will all the role players go?

[Rondo9]

So I think Philly moving into that 30 win territory was pushed back another year (to 2016-17) ... because they took -- felt they had to take because of his talent -- J.Okafor in the draft.

I think that was definitely the right choice, though it does make their road more difficult. 

Okafor looks like the real deal to me.  Not the kind of big man that's en vogue this days, but I think he's likely to be the most productive player in this draft, and the most likely to become a reliable #1 scoring option.

I'd say Jahill is more of the Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson type player good offense and bad defense.

[Who]

So I think Philly moving into that 30 win territory was pushed back another year (to 2016-17) ... because they took -- felt they had to take because of his talent -- J.Okafor in the draft.

I think that was definitely the right choice, though it does make their road more difficult. 

Okafor looks like the real deal to me.  Not the kind of big man that's en vogue this days, but I think he's likely to be the most productive player in this draft, and the most likely to become a reliable #1 scoring option.

I'd say Jahill is more of the Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson type player good offense and bad defense.

That is how I view him too.

I thought Mudiay had more star potential. Maybe Porzingis as well (big gamble though).

I am not sure guys like S.Johnson and/or J.Winslow do not turn out to be more valuable pro players than J.Okafor becomes either.

[PhoSita]

So I think Philly moving into that 30 win territory was pushed back another year (to 2016-17) ... because they took -- felt they had to take because of his talent -- J.Okafor in the draft.

I think that was definitely the right choice, though it does make their road more difficult. 

Okafor looks like the real deal to me.  Not the kind of big man that's en vogue this days, but I think he's likely to be the most productive player in this draft, and the most likely to become a reliable #1 scoring option.

I'd say Jahill is more of the Brook Lopez/Al Jefferson type player good offense and bad defense.

He profiles that way, at least to begin with, but I think he's got the physical attributes to be solid defensively, at least as good as a guy like Greg Monroe, and maybe comparable to Al Horford.

I think he'll be significantly better than Brook and Big Al.


I understand why some people are down on Okafor, but to my eye he just as "it," and I think that transcends what the current league-wide trends happen to be.

[Moranis]

The MCW trade was evidence that Hinkie will always make trades where he gets a better asset for a worse one, not that he plans on trading away players if they get too good.

That Hinkie would deal a high upside prospect just because he was causing too many wins is probably inaccurate. However, if a rotation player without a high upside started playing well I would expect him to be dealt.

The current makeup of the team (high draft picks and boarder line nba players) indicates that Hinkie would deal a player for being too good if that player didn't have star potential. Isn't the idea that the Sixers are going to be bad and stay in the lottery to maximize their chances at a star with a high pick the entire strategy behind what Philly is doing? If a player without star potential plays well in Philly I think it is obvious he will be dealt.

Yeah, but all mediocre or bad teams should do that.  There is no point in keeping or paying role players, if you don't have your championship foundation in place.  That is why, for example, I saw no reason to keep Bradley for the Celtics.  He is a nice quality bench/spot starter on a good team, but serves no real purpose for Boston (except as a potential asset).

Doesn't a championship foundation require a top ten player?

That means at least twenty teams in the league should be getting rid of all their role players.

Where will all the role players go?

They will take less money and thus not become cost prohibitive. 

[slamtheking]

It's not a real rumor, though -- it's conjecture relying (mostly) on the fact that he traded Jrue Holiday at his all-time highest value for the 6th pick as it's basis. That pick, of course, turned into Nerlens Noel, who will probably help NBA teams win more games than Jrue Holiday for the foreseeable future.

that and the MCW trade as well.  I'm not big on MCW as a starting PG so far but he's much better than who they've had at PG since that deal.

MCW isn't actually good at basketball, though, which pretty much everyone recognized (including MCW, who had to field trade rumors on the 2014 draft night, as I recall)

I agree that he isn't as good as some people here claimed.  winning a dubious (IMHO) ROY award does not mean someone is really good.  in his case, I think it emphasized the weakness of the draft class.

in any case, he's still better than any PG they've used since the trade.  speaks volumes about the quality of PGs they've had.

You realize the team was better following that trade right?

better is a relative term in regards to that team.  that's like having your dog panting in your face and thinking "you have good breath, for a dog".  still dog breath.

So basically, you made up a bunch of stuff. Got caught not really knowing what you're talking about, and now turn to spouting off insults.

Got it. How was the MCW trade evidence Hinkie is going to blow the team up if they're "too good" again?

actually Raaaaaandy, that would be you making up a bunch of stuff.  as pointed out in a previous post, their record did NOT improve.  the stats for offense/defense may have with some changes to their roster taking place (primarily Noel's role) but removing MCW did not improve their record nor was it the only possible explanation to any improved stats.
I don't think MCW is more than a back up PG in this league but he's better than Ish (IMHO) and would be better than Wroten (probable PG) this coming year.

[slamtheking]

I had expected Philly to build off of what they accomplished last season and become a 30 win type team this year. I thought Noel gave them a good foundation to build off of. Another top five pick this summer. Plus hopefully Saric coming over.

But Saric didn't come over. And then the draft didn't go great. They ended up with another center (J.Okafor) ... a player who will, at least in the early years, struggle to play alongside Nerlens Noel. So instead of having 2 star youngsters you can start building around. You have 2 star youngsters who both play the same position and can't really play together.

So I think Philly moving into that 30 win territory was pushed back another year (to 2016-17) ... because they took -- felt they had to take because of his talent -- J.Okafor in the draft.

I think where Hinkie missed on the draft this year is knowing that Okafor was probably the BPA at his selection (could debate it was Mudiay but I really think it was Okafor), he should have been looking to swing a deal for either that pick or Noel to get another top prospect and high pick to maximize the return on that high pick (Okafor). 

I don't have any specific deals in mind but I would think that if they made that pick or Noel available, there'd be a few teams in the draft from 4-8 that would swap a young prospect and their top pick for either of those players.  Sixers would still have Embiid and Noel/Okafor to go with 2 other top prospects that would fill holes at the other 4 positions where they have just d-league/deep-bench quality scrubs right now.

[D.o.s.]

It's not a real rumor, though -- it's conjecture relying (mostly) on the fact that he traded Jrue Holiday at his all-time highest value for the 6th pick as it's basis. That pick, of course, turned into Nerlens Noel, who will probably help NBA teams win more games than Jrue Holiday for the foreseeable future.

that and the MCW trade as well.  I'm not big on MCW as a starting PG so far but he's much better than who they've had at PG since that deal.

MCW isn't actually good at basketball, though, which pretty much everyone recognized (including MCW, who had to field trade rumors on the 2014 draft night, as I recall)

I agree that he isn't as good as some people here claimed.  winning a dubious (IMHO) ROY award does not mean someone is really good.  in his case, I think it emphasized the weakness of the draft class.

in any case, he's still better than any PG they've used since the trade.  speaks volumes about the quality of PGs they've had.

You realize the team was better following that trade right?

better is a relative term in regards to that team.  that's like having your dog panting in your face and thinking "you have good breath, for a dog".  still dog breath.

So basically, you made up a bunch of stuff. Got caught not really knowing what you're talking about, and now turn to spouting off insults.

Got it. How was the MCW trade evidence Hinkie is going to blow the team up if they're "too good" again?

actually Raaaaaandy, that would be you making up a bunch of stuff.  as pointed out in a previous post, their record did NOT improve.  the stats for offense/defense may have with some changes to their roster taking place (primarily Noel's role) but removing MCW did not improve their record nor was it the only possible explanation to any improved stats.
I don't think MCW is more than a back up PG in this league but he's better than Ish (IMHO) and would be better than Wroten (probable PG) this coming year.

When a bad team continues to lose games, looking at win/loss record is not a great idea. This is part of the trap I see in a lot of people's view of the Celtics run to close out the year, too -- for different reasons, obviously (happy to be wrong on that and if we win 50 games this year I'll be hyped).

I do agree that pinning Philly's differences in Off/Def. as well as record are not something you can pin on MWC, but that cuts both ways.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

It's not a real rumor, though -- it's conjecture relying (mostly) on the fact that he traded Jrue Holiday at his all-time highest value for the 6th pick as it's basis. That pick, of course, turned into Nerlens Noel, who will probably help NBA teams win more games than Jrue Holiday for the foreseeable future.

that and the MCW trade as well.  I'm not big on MCW as a starting PG so far but he's much better than who they've had at PG since that deal.

MCW isn't actually good at basketball, though, which pretty much everyone recognized (including MCW, who had to field trade rumors on the 2014 draft night, as I recall)

I agree that he isn't as good as some people here claimed.  winning a dubious (IMHO) ROY award does not mean someone is really good.  in his case, I think it emphasized the weakness of the draft class.

in any case, he's still better than any PG they've used since the trade.  speaks volumes about the quality of PGs they've had.

You realize the team was better following that trade right?

better is a relative term in regards to that team.  that's like having your dog panting in your face and thinking "you have good breath, for a dog".  still dog breath.

So basically, you made up a bunch of stuff. Got caught not really knowing what you're talking about, and now turn to spouting off insults.

Got it. How was the MCW trade evidence Hinkie is going to blow the team up if they're "too good" again?

actually Raaaaaandy, that would be you making up a bunch of stuff.  as pointed out in a previous post, their record did NOT improve.  the stats for offense/defense may have with some changes to their roster taking place (primarily Noel's role) but removing MCW did not improve their record nor was it the only possible explanation to any improved stats.
I don't think MCW is more than a back up PG in this league but he's better than Ish (IMHO) and would be better than Wroten (probable PG) this coming year.

Their offense improved by 6 points a game after he left...

Their defense barely changed.

In what world is that not getting better?

[slamtheking]

It's not a real rumor, though -- it's conjecture relying (mostly) on the fact that he traded Jrue Holiday at his all-time highest value for the 6th pick as it's basis. That pick, of course, turned into Nerlens Noel, who will probably help NBA teams win more games than Jrue Holiday for the foreseeable future.

that and the MCW trade as well.  I'm not big on MCW as a starting PG so far but he's much better than who they've had at PG since that deal.

MCW isn't actually good at basketball, though, which pretty much everyone recognized (including MCW, who had to field trade rumors on the 2014 draft night, as I recall)

I agree that he isn't as good as some people here claimed.  winning a dubious (IMHO) ROY award does not mean someone is really good.  in his case, I think it emphasized the weakness of the draft class.

in any case, he's still better than any PG they've used since the trade.  speaks volumes about the quality of PGs they've had.

You realize the team was better following that trade right?

better is a relative term in regards to that team.  that's like having your dog panting in your face and thinking "you have good breath, for a dog".  still dog breath.

So basically, you made up a bunch of stuff. Got caught not really knowing what you're talking about, and now turn to spouting off insults.

Got it. How was the MCW trade evidence Hinkie is going to blow the team up if they're "too good" again?

actually Raaaaaandy, that would be you making up a bunch of stuff.  as pointed out in a previous post, their record did NOT improve.  the stats for offense/defense may have with some changes to their roster taking place (primarily Noel's role) but removing MCW did not improve their record nor was it the only possible explanation to any improved stats.
I don't think MCW is more than a back up PG in this league but he's better than Ish (IMHO) and would be better than Wroten (probable PG) this coming year.

Their offense improved by 6 points a game after he left...

Their defense barely changed.

In what world is that not getting better?

you've pinned that on just that trade.  As stated by someone else, they also changed Noel's role on the team.  I'm not an avid follower of the Sixers (as you apparently are) but I would attribute that statistical improvement more to Noel's development than to the removal of MCW.

In any case, do you honestly believe MCW, while not as good as some thought, was dragging that mess  of a team down? 

[D.o.s.]

I'm not an avid follower of the Sixers (as you apparently are)

AFAIK Randy is actually a 76ers fan, and not in the pejorative sense that the phrase is usually used around here.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

It's not a real rumor, though -- it's conjecture relying (mostly) on the fact that he traded Jrue Holiday at his all-time highest value for the 6th pick as it's basis. That pick, of course, turned into Nerlens Noel, who will probably help NBA teams win more games than Jrue Holiday for the foreseeable future.

that and the MCW trade as well.  I'm not big on MCW as a starting PG so far but he's much better than who they've had at PG since that deal.

MCW isn't actually good at basketball, though, which pretty much everyone recognized (including MCW, who had to field trade rumors on the 2014 draft night, as I recall)

I agree that he isn't as good as some people here claimed.  winning a dubious (IMHO) ROY award does not mean someone is really good.  in his case, I think it emphasized the weakness of the draft class.

in any case, he's still better than any PG they've used since the trade.  speaks volumes about the quality of PGs they've had.

You realize the team was better following that trade right?

better is a relative term in regards to that team.  that's like having your dog panting in your face and thinking "you have good breath, for a dog".  still dog breath.

So basically, you made up a bunch of stuff. Got caught not really knowing what you're talking about, and now turn to spouting off insults.

Got it. How was the MCW trade evidence Hinkie is going to blow the team up if they're "too good" again?

actually Raaaaaandy, that would be you making up a bunch of stuff.  as pointed out in a previous post, their record did NOT improve.  the stats for offense/defense may have with some changes to their roster taking place (primarily Noel's role) but removing MCW did not improve their record nor was it the only possible explanation to any improved stats.
I don't think MCW is more than a back up PG in this league but he's better than Ish (IMHO) and would be better than Wroten (probable PG) this coming year.

Their offense improved by 6 points a game after he left...

Their defense barely changed.

In what world is that not getting better?

you've pinned that on just that trade.  As stated by someone else, they also changed Noel's role on the team.  I'm not an avid follower of the Sixers (as you apparently are) but I would attribute that statistical improvement more to Noel's development than to the removal of MCW.

In any case, do you honestly believe MCW, while not as good as some thought, was dragging that mess  of a team down?

He was absolutely dragging the offense down. Look at what he did to the Bucks offense... 4 ppg less after the trade.

His length was useful defensively, but the presence of spacing, not having one of the worst shooters in the league jacking 8.4 shots per 100 poss, and not having a turnover machine of a PG absolutely helped the offense.

The numbers would probably be even more stark if Brown didn't force Nerlens to play PF for the last 10 games of the year to openly tank for 10 games get him used to playing with another big.

[celticsclay]

This has certainly gotten off track, but these recent posts did make me think, why didn't the 76er's go for Muidiay? I only saw a little of him, but it seemed like he looked really good in summer league (as did Okafor). However, having a talented guard is something that would have really helped them moving forward.

[D.o.s.]

I know at least one Sixers fan who was devastated that D'Angelo Russell didn't fall to them.

[Moranis]

This has certainly gotten off track, but these recent posts did make me think, why didn't the 76er's go for Muidiay? I only saw a little of him, but it seemed like he looked really good in summer league (as did Okafor). However, having a talented guard is something that would have really helped them moving forward.

Okafor is a big man who has a much higher floor and a ceiling in the same general range as Mudiay (Mudiay's is probably a bit higher, but I don't think enough to warrant the risk).  To me that says you take the big man especially in the modern NBA where quality PG's seem to be falling from the sky, but quality bigs are few and far between.  If I was Hinkie, I would have taken Okafor and wouldn't have given it a second thought.